Trio jailed for murdering dad of six Martin Dick


A KILLER who stabbed his victim in the head, then engaged in a threesome with his two accomplices before heading to the pub, will spend at least 14 years in jail.

Martin Dick was left for dead on the front lawn of his Hoppers Crossing home after Dean Maes, 32, stabbed him seven times in the head, back and upper body in August 2010.

Accomplice Callum Fitton Serving at least 3 years

Supreme Court Judge Justice Paul Coghlan today said after the violent killing Maes went back to the home of co-accused Callum Fitton with fellow co-accused Elizabeth Downie – the victim’s ex-wife.

The three then engaged in sexual intercourse before Fitton and Maes went to the Newport Hotel and drank beers together until their arrest later that night, he said.

The court heard on the day of the attack the trio had been drinking at Downie’s Werribee home before they set off for Mr Dick’s home.

After Mr Dick tried to close the door on the group, Maes smashed the door down.

Mr Dick was then bashed and when he tried to escape was stabbed seven times.

The group then left and drove until their car ran out of petrol near Spotswood.

Justice Coghlan said the attack had had a devastating and lasting effect on the victim’s family, including Mr Dick’s six children.

Justice Coghlan said police were investigating serious allegations against Mr Dick at the time of his death.

“It is not a matter for you to be the judge and the jury let alone the executioner,” he told Maes.

Justice Coghlan said he accepted Maes was now remorseful and was genuinely concerned about the welfare of Mr Dick’s young children.

He sentenced Maes, who pleaded guilty to murder, to a maximum of 18 years.

Downie was earlier sentenced to a non-parole period of four years for her involvement. Fitton was sentenced to serve at least three years.

Accused killers ‘hatched plan’ over booze and pills

September 1, 2010

Three booze-and-drug-fuelled killers drove around Melbourne‘s west until running out of petrol after murdering a man in Hoppers Crossing, police say.

The accused – Callum Fitton, 41, Dean Maes, 30, and Elizabeth Downie, 36 – allegedly “hatched a plan” to murder Martin Dick at his home on Monday, a court has heard. They are also charged with aggravated burglary.

Police arrested and charged the three yesterday. They appeared at an out-of-sessions court last night where they were remanded to reappear separately at Melbourne Magistrates Court for brief filing hearings this morning.

The trio allegedly assaulted Mr Dick, 42, in his home then dragged him into his front yard where he was stabbed by Maes. Mr Dick reportedly suffered facial and upper body injuries. His body was found at the front of the Cleveland Drive property.

At last night’s hearing, Detective Senior Constable Scott Riley said the trio allegedly met in Altona on Monday to drink and consume pills.

Detective Senior Constable Riley said they later went to Downie’s Werribee home where they “hatched a plan” to go to Mr Dick’s address.

The three then drove to Mr Dick’s Cleveland Drive property, where Maes allegedly kicked in the door.

Detective Senior Constable Riley said Maes and Fitton then punched and kicked Mr Dick, who was dragged onto the front lawn, where Maes stabbed him.

The trio then left and drove to Spotswood, stopping twice to dispose of the knife and to wash their bloodied clothes, until the vehicle ran out of petrol in Spotswood near Fitton’s home, Detective Senior Constable Riley said.

Fitton, who appeared in court barefoot in blue forensic overalls, spoke out at the hearing.

“It wasn’t something that was planned,” he said.

He said they had gone to pay Mr Dick a visit.

“I threw a couple of punches,” he told the hearing.

“Dean produced a knife,” Fitton said, adding that he had no idea Maes had a knife.

A dishevelled Downie appeared at the hearing in a light blue tracksuit jumper, with a cut on the right side of her forehead.

They were refused bail and ordered to reappear at Melbourne this morning. Downie, of Werribee, was first and appeared in a T-shirt printed with the words “Love sucks”. Her lawyer Bernie Balmer asked Magistrate Simon Garnett to note a custody management issue for her involved heroin use.

Ann Valos, for Maes, said that custody management issues for him were a possible acquired brain injury and that he was on two types of medication.

Maes, of West Melbourne, nodded and winked at a man in the body of the court and told him as he left that he loved him and to “stay strong”.

Fitton, bearded and with a skull and crossbones tattoo on the front of his neck, appeared last.

Defence lawyer Paul Jansen said his client, from Spotswood, did not have any custody management issues and, like his two co-accused, was remanded to appear in January.

- with AAP

via Accused killers ‘hatched plan’ over booze and pills.

THE QUEEN

v

DEAN MAES

JUDGE: COGHLAN J

WHERE HELD: Melbourne

DATE OF HEARING: 1 February 2012

DATE OF SENTENCE: 24 April 2012

CASE MAY BE CITED AS: R v Maes

MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: [2012] VSC 161

CRIMINAL LAW – Murder – Plea of Guilty – History of alcohol and illicit substance abuse

– Prospects of rehabilitation – Vigilantism

APPEARANCES: Counsel Solicitors

For the Crown Mr C. Thomson Office of Public Prosecutions

For the Accused Mr D. Dann Ann Valos Lawyers

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HIS HONOUR:

1 Dean Maes, on 7 February 2012, you were arraigned and pleaded guilty to the

murder of Martin Dick at his home in Hoppers Crossing on 30 August 2010.

2 There are two co-accused who have already been sentenced by this Court, namely

Elizabeth Downie and Callum Fitton, both of whom pleaded guilty to manslaughter

and were sentenced by Justice King and me respectively.

3 The origins of the attack were borne out of the relationship between Mr Dick and

your co-accused Elizabeth Downie and to a lesser extent your relationship with both

of them. Martin Dick and Elizabeth Downie had been married for 12 years until they

divorced in October 2005 after separating in 2002. They had six children, three boys

and three girls born between 1992 and 2001.

4 At the time of the separation, initially all the children lived with Downie. In 2004

they all moved and lived with Mr Dick. Some time in 2002 you had commenced a

relationship with Downie. This relationship lasted for about two years before the

two of you broke up due largely to you being physically violent towards her. You

still remained in contact with each other.

5 In March 2010, one of the children complained that Mr Dick had masturbated in her

presence. As a result, four of the children moved back to live with their mother.

One child remained with Mr Dick while the other was living elsewhere. Mr Dick

had been interviewed by the police about the alleged incident but no formal charges

had been laid at the time of his death, although it appears that a brief of evidence

had been prepared but not approved.

6 Downie complained to various friends about the allegation against Mr Dick, saying

that “something should be done or someone should have him whacked”. She

further expressed to another friend that she wanted someone to run through

Mr Dick’s house and in fact said she was going to get you to do it but then changed

her mind because she thought that you would go too far. In the present

circumstances, I refer to those matters only as a matter of context.

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7 On 30 July 2010, Downie was on the phone to a friend and said that she and yourself

were going to run through the child molester’s home. You then told the same friend

that you were going to beat Mr Dick up. You are reported as having said “did you

hear what Martin did to those girls…I’m going to kill the low life cunt” but nothing

occurred at that time. I proceed on the basis that that was not actually your intention

at the time you were said to have made that remark.

8 On the day of the offending which was about one month later, you and Fitton, who

you had known for a couple of years, met Elizabeth Downie at the Westonia Railway

Station. At 1.41 pm, the three of you went back to Downie’s house and consumed

some alcohol. Gabrielle, one of the Downie/Dick children, was home at this stage

and Fitton showed her some of his tattoos which she took some photographs of.

9 The three of you, that is yourself, Downie and Fitton, proceeded to go to Mr Dick’s

house in Downie’s Hyundai sedan. You all went up to the front door. Upon

opening the front door, Mr Dick, on seeing who was at the door, quickly tried to

close it but you smashed the front door down. You entered the house and fought

Mr Dick throwing punches and kicking him. His blood was later found in the

hallway, dining room and kitchen area. During the course of the struggle, you

picked up a filleting knife. The actual circumstances of how that knife came into

your possession are not clear.

10 Mr Dick managed to escape from the melee out the front door but was immediately

punched by Fitton as he stepped outside. Then you came outside and briefly,

shortly afterwards, stabbed Mr Dick seven times to his head, back and left flank.

11 A nearby witness heard Fitton yelling “I’ll kill ya” and another witness who was

walking home from school heard a male yelling “he’s fucking dead, cunt, just fuckin’

leave the guy alone”. You then said to this witness “keep walking mate, it’s got

nothing to do with you”. At this stage, Downie was heard yelling “oh, you’re a

fuckin’ paedophile, you’ve been touching people’s daughters”.

12 A further witness who heard very much the same, also saw two men punching and

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kicking Mr Dick and then saw you pull Fitton away from him. It was put on as part

of the Crown Opening on the plea which became Exhibit 1, that you had to drag

Fitton away from Mr Dick twice. Once before you returned to Downie’s car, then a

further time after Fitton had returned to Mr Dick to abuse him and assault him

further.

13 All of you then drove a short distance before Downie got out of the car and dropped

the knife down a drain. The knife later retrieved by police was similar to knives

which were found in the kitchen of Mr Dick.

14 You continued on to Grevillea Crescent, where you all got out and washed at a

garden tap. You and Fitton took off most of your clothing and left some of it there.

Once back in the car, you drove until the car ran out of petrol near Newport railway

station. At this point, you went back to Fitton’s bungalow in Spotswood where the

three of you engaged in sexual intercourse.

15 Downie left after speaking with her daughter on the phone who told her the police

were at their house and wanted to speak with her. She was later arrested at the

Hoppers Crossing railway station.

16 You and Fitton went to the Newport Hotel and continued to drink beer until your

arrest at 11.25pm. You were both intoxicated and incapable of being interviewed.

17 You later gave a no comment record of interview.

18 Mr Dick died as a result of multiple stab wounds being one to his right ear, five to

his back and one to his left flank. Two of his wounds caused massive internal

bleeding and the collapse of both lungs.

19 I received four Victim Impact Statements on the plea from Robert Dick, Mr Dick’s

brother, Carolyn Donnelly and Catherine Wood, his sisters, and Philip Wood,

Mr Dick’s brother in law and husband of Catherine Wood. At Callum Fitton’s plea

which I presided over, the same victim impact material was read out by Philip Wood

and Catherine Wood and the statements of Robert Dick and Carolyn Donnelly were

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also read out. I mention that matter because the material was very similar, if not the

same.

20 It leads me to observe, as I have previously observed, offending such as this has a

devastating and lasting effect on the victims and I can only do the best I can to

understand what they go through. It can only be said that with your plea of guilty,

the matter can now be finalised in one sense and the victims can take some comfort

from the fact and begin to try and move on with their lives. One difficulty that arises

in this case and is completely obvious, the children of the marriage between Mr Dick

and Ms Downie are deprived of their father and, as a consequential result of her own

actions in which you joined, deprived of the presence and help of their mother for

the next number of years.

21 I did not receive any direct victim impact material from the children. The

circumstances for them in that regard, since one of the offenders was their mother,

relating to the death of their father was a very difficult one indeed but I have taken

into account the truly tragic consequences that this offending has had upon them.

22 You are now 32 years of age. You do have a criminal record. It was put to me by

Mr Dann who appeared for you on the plea that while your criminal record is

substantial, there is a lack of prior convictions for violence and that appears to be so

on the examination of your convictions.

23 Your prior convictions do seem to stem from your continual abuse of alcohol and

drugs from a young age, and I will come to later. As such, I do not consider the fact

that you had consumed alcohol and benzodiazepines on the day of the offending as

a matter in mitigation but I do not regard it as a matter in aggravation either. It is

however relevant in the sense that it might well have been a matter which you had

chosen to argue on trial, had you not pleaded guilty, as to what intent you had

actually formed at the time of these events.

24 You were born in Melbourne and have a twin brother and a younger brother. You

also have an older half sister and a younger half brother. Your father was in the

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army and as a result of this, you moved around a lot in your early years and

attended a number of different primary schools.

25 It was put to me on the plea that in those early years, your father had difficulty with

his alcohol consumption and was violent towards your mother. Your mother would

often leave and take you and your siblings elsewhere to escape his physical abuse.

26 At age 14, your parents separated and you lived with your mother but not for long.

You fell in with an older crowd who did not attend school and were abusing alcohol.

You felt that you were given an ultimatum by your mother to either attend school or

leave home. As such, you chose to leave the family home. Since then, you have

lived a somewhat itinerant life, staying with friends, living on the streets and staying

at crisis centres or any accommodation that could be provided to you. You have not

been able to sustain long term employment due to your lack of permanent

accommodation.

27 From about the age of 14, you developed a dependency on alcohol and smoking

cannabis up to two joints a day until you were arrested, other than time then spent in

custody. You also have had a habit of taking amphetamines, although more heavily

between the ages of 16 to 25.

28 Throughout the years, you have suffered a number of concussions, but in about 2006

or 2007, you were severely attacked to the head with an axe during a home invasion

at your father’s residence and received 14 stitches. As a result of the attack, you were

later diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. You dealt with anxiety from the

attack by drinking more alcohol and using excessive benzodiazepines. You have

been receiving prescriptions for benzodiazepines since the age of 20.

29 A report from Dr Adam Deacon, psychiatrist, was tendered on the plea and became

Exhibit 3M. Dr Deacon stated under the heading ‘Opinion and Recommendations’:

“Mr Maes has a prolonged history of alcohol and cannabis dependency. He

has persistently consumed excessive alcohol, contributing to secondary

problems including blackouts and cognitive problems, including short-term

memory deficits and related disorganisation. He has universally failed

attempts at alcohol rehabilitation with prompt relapse.

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Mr Maes has been subject to multiple head injuries. He has been seriously

assaulted on many occasions, leading to periods of unconsciousness. He

was seriously assaulted whilst severely intoxicated a few years ago whilst in

the company of his father. As detailed in the body of this report, he

developed a subsequent anxiety condition that meets the criteria for posttraumatic

stress disorder. As a result of this serious assault, Mr Maes

became more dependent on alcohol, and he also required prescribed

anxiolytic benzodiazepine medication. He developed a pattern of abusing

benzodiazepines, and as he typically consumed most of the prescription

within a few days of it being dispensed.”

30 I might add in parentheses, that seems to be part of what happened on this very day.

31 Your recollection of the events on 30 August 2010 are at best scarce. It was put by

Mr Thomson who appeared on behalf of the Crown that you did not go to Mr Dick’s

premises that day with the intention to murder him but to carry out an attack. It was

only during the fight with Mr Dick that you formed the intention to cause really

serious injury and I proceed to sentence you on that basis.

32 I do accept that you knew the children and did have genuine concern about their

welfare but vigilante attacks such as these are undoubtedly futile and completely

unacceptable. You were aware of the allegation against Mr Dick but no charges had

been laid and it was not a matter for you to be the judge and the jury, let alone the

executioner. Even had Mr Dick not died as a result of the injuries you inflicted, this

would have been a very serious crime of intentionally causing serious injury.

33 It was put on your behalf, although you do not remember the actual offending, that

this in itself does not illustrate your lack of remorse as you could have chosen to

have proceeded to trial and taken your chance of being convicted of a lesser crime.

34 Dr Deacon further observed:

“Mr Maes vaguely recalled elements of the day of the offence, but he denied

any recollection of the actual offence other than the initial verbal and

physical altercation. Mr Maes’ reported amnesia likely reflects a

combination of similar previous alcohol related blackouts secondary to

chronic alcohol dependency. Alcohol combined with benzodiazepines is

also recognised as being a combination that frequently leads to amnesia.

This combination is also reported to be a risk factor for paradoxical

disinhibited and aggressive states.

Mr Maes presented as genuinely remorseful and contrite. He remains mildly

7 T0161

perplexed by his circumstances, as he has struggled to reconcile what he has

done. He presented as particularly concerned for the welfare of Mr Dick’s

children now they’ve lost their father, and their mother is in custody. Mr

Maes presented as mildly depressed but he is coping adequately in prison.”

35 I note that your actions immediately following the attack did not show any level of

remorse but I accept that you are now remorseful for your actions and I do regard

your plea as having real worth and in part as being a feature of the remorse that you

have shown.

36 You are a person who has clearly led a life dependent on alcohol and drugs. Your

prospects of rehabilitation appear to be greatly intertwined with your ability to

abstain from the abuse of alcohol and illicit substances. I received a report from

Mr Martin Jackson, a neuropsychologist, which became Exhibit 6M on the plea.

Regarding your prognosis he said:

“In terms of prognosis, it is highly recommended that Mr Maes cease

drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana. If he does so, then there is a

possibility that his cognitive skills will improve, although it is not known

how well they will recover. However, if he continues to drink alcohol and

smoke marijuana at hazardous levels then he will certainly experience

deterioration in his cognitive skills over time and increase the probability

that any impairment will be permanent. It is also recommended that he

reduce (with the aim of ceasing) his use of benzodiazepines, which he

continues to take due to anxiety following the axe attack.”

37 And later:

“In terms of recommended treatment, I note that Mr Maes has successfully

undertaken detoxification in the past and remained abstinent for some time

with appropriate support and counselling. Therefore, I recommend that

whilst he is in prison he take part in drug and alcohol counselling.

Furthermore, when he is released from prison he should be referred to a

drug and alcohol service and engage in alcohol and drug counselling to

assist him to remain abstinent. He should also receive counselling to help

him deal with the trauma associated with the previous axe attack. He also

has a long history of accommodation (homelessness) problems and would

require further support from accommodation services once he is released

from prison.”

38 In his report, Mr Jackson comments that he is unable to determine whether you have

an acquired brain injury from substance use or previous head injury. At the time as

his assessment of you, you were still abusing alcohol and drugs excessively so that

aspects of a cognitive impairment test would not be able to be satisfactorily

8 T0161

determined.

39 You do have the support of your family and now have a child of your own to

consider.

40 Whilst on remand, you have completed a number of programs. For this you are to

be commended:

 Introduction to Anger Management Program

 Communication Skills Programs

 Certificate III in Hospitality (Kitchen Operations)

 Staying Safe in the Community Program (Release Related Harm Reduction)

 Certificate I in General Education for Adults (Introductory)

 Certificate II in Asset Maintenance (Cleaning Operations)

41 Although because of your background and your abuse of alcohol and illicit

substances, your prospects of rehabilitation are guarded. They are however not so

bleak as to be disregarded and should not be regarded as non-existent. There is

some prospect of rehabilitation in your future which I think you now understand is

largely in your own hands. You have shown at least some determination whilst you

have been in prison on this occasion in wanting to improve yourself and have shown

signs of it.

42 I was asked to impose a sentence at the lower end of the range for murder because of

the mitigating features of your plea and your lack of violent offending. These

though have to be put in contrast to the aggravating features, particularly that you

took the law into your own hands which must be discouraged and the fact that you

stabbed Mr Dick seven times. Murder does carry life imprisonment. I have fixed a

sentence which I would regard as being more or less in the middle of the range but

at the lower end of that middle range.

43 Your co-accused Elizabeth Downie and Callum Fitton, as I have already observed,

both pleaded guilty to manslaughter and agreed to give evidence against you in

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accordance with sworn undertakings they gave to the court. I sentenced Callum

Fitton to be imprisoned for five years with a non parole period of three years. Justice

King sentenced Elizabeth Downie to be imprisoned for six years with a non parole

period of four years.

44 In so far as I have been able to do so and in so far as it is relevant to do so I have

taken their sentences into account. It must be noted however that you were the

person who caused the death of Martin Dick and you did so in circumstances that

you alone formed the intent to cause really serious injury to Mr Dick. I have taken

into account that Ms Downie was the moving force in this offending in a general

sense.

45 I am obliged to have regard to just punishment, denunciation, general and specific

deterrence and I have done so. It is important to note in that regard that you did

stab Mr Dick seven times in what must be regarded as a sustained attack.

46 I have fixed a non-parole period which I believe will be adequate for your

supervision in the community, when and if the parole board chose to release you on

parole.

47 I sentence you to be imprisoned for 18 years and I fix a period of 14 and a half years

before you will be eligible for parole.

48 I state that pursuant to s 6AAA of the Sentencing Act 1991, had it not been for your

plea of guilty I would have sentenced you to be imprisoned for 21 years, with a nonparole

period of 17 and a half years.

49 I declare that you have served 602 days pursuant to this sentence. I order that this

declaration and the above statement pursuant to s 6AAA to be entered in the records

of the Court.

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32 thoughts on “Trio jailed for murdering dad of six Martin Dick

  1. This is so sad and a real reflection of what drugs and alcohol can cause.

    The police were investigating the report of child molestation … No charges were laid.

    I don’t know the details but I know kids. My own daughter accused me of being mean And picking on her – she was 5 then. My ex asked her a few questions and realised that to her – I was being mean and picking on her because I was trying to enforce sharing between her and her older brother. Little miss thought she had priority in my time and TV time …

    I could have been charged with child harassment if it was on her say so alone ..

    Kids misinterpret so much and whilst I am sorry to the children for the loss of their father, I have to wonder something – where were the kids while she was running around drugged and drunk with two men participating in murder and ‘gang banging’ the murderers.

    Where were the kids while all this was happening?

    Judging by the history of this family – all I can see is that this is a chance for the children to learn about behaviours.not influenced by drugs and alcohol which have had the effect of violence and aggression in the home.

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  2. My 6 year old girl asked me what I was reading so i gave her a summary and she thinks it is sad for the kids.

    She said ‘you nearly died Mum’ then I would have been sad like those kids …

    Like

  3. On another level – I am wondering what losing her kids to their father due to the violence in her relationship with one of the murderers did for this woman’s heroin habit.

    Centrelink pay good money the more kids one has.

    I guess lying to support the habit would have been involved – once a person starts lying – the truth is the lie and the lie the truth – what’s to say she did not encourage a lie by her child so that she could recover her Centrelink income to support her habit.

    It is not beyond a hurt person under drug influence to create a lie and to involve others in it – I would love to know what the brief says in relation to allegations of child molestation against the now deceased.

    Not much has been said about him and, not enough has been revealed about this man and his activities prior to his death.

    I wouldn’t be clapping my hands that s child molester has been removed from the Earth – not just yet.

    I notice that during the incident Downie said he molestered other people’s children, during a phone call one of the men said the father did it to his girls, but the police report says one of the children complained.

    Oh how the story grows. I am more inclined to believe the police report and their investigation than three drug fkd adults that drink in front of kids and find revenge and threesomes more important than the whereabouts of children that apparently were already subject to inappropriate behaviours …

    Some people are fucked and, when the mother does come out of jail – it should be made near impossible for her to get her kids back.

    They will probably be settled by them – I plead with the relevant Government body to bare this in mind.

    Just because she gave birth to them – doesn’t mean she is a Mother.

    Like

    • You refer to a wonderful father, true friend to many, enemy to none and my amazing youngest brother here. You know only what you read; nothing about an incredible and loving person whom I knew for 42 great years. Any “allegations” against Martin were fabricated by Downie (and others closely related to her) so she could some how get back (from my dear brother who had cared for them single handed and fantastically) the gorgeous children she (only) gave birth to, but never looked after, due to her horrendous drug and alcohol addictions. My brother adored those children (and they adored him) and did everything he could, both emotionally and financially to show his love and support every day of his life as their father. Sometimes the wrong people (or maybe they are just the best people) leave this earth too early…..what do you think??

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      • He did do everything he could to support his children emotionally and financially, but showing love to your own children isn’t included with having a sexual relationship with them. They all still adore him as much as they ever did. However, as horrible as the mothers addiction was, she loved her children as much as any mother could, also.

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        • Unless you are prepared to identify yourself, please stop commenting on a situation you know nothing about. If you do know Downie personally to make comments about her love for my brother’s children (which, in itself is untrue), then tell people who you are (don’t hide behind asdfghjkl!!!!) and how you know so much!!!! My brother NEVER did anything to any of his children or anyone elses. I have spoken for hours with the detective in charge of my brother’s murder case (which I believe you have not) and all ALLEGATIONS were untrue, fabricated lies. Downie is a lying, cheating, drug addicted, practicing alcoholic who (if let out of prison and left untreated) will kill again…….as I have asked, please discontinue your comments on this blogg unless you truly did know my brother, my family, my
          neices, my nephews and only the FACTS…..

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          • I knew your brother as I have stated.. You really need to calm down and just leave it. You’ll never agree with the truth that your step brother had acted in a pedophilia way, as did Downie act in a monstrous way.

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            • If you knew Martin, why do you call him my step brother. I have no step brothers or step sisters. Clearly you don’t know my family. Don’t tell me to calm down until you experience my grief and have your own brother murdered by his ex wife and two other pieces of scum (if you have no brother, you will never know my grief). Do not make any more comments without finding out the true information from the homicide squad; rumours and lies only lead to heart ache and grief (as my family has experienced first hand). God is my brother’s judge; not you or any other human being who walks the earth. …………You still hide behind asdfghjkl, how cowardly.

              Like

    • She is a mother, and none of the children will forgive her by what she has down; they will still love her. Just like they do with the father molesting two of the girls, and making his way to the next. The children were not around the drugs or drinking at this time.

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    • How fucken dare you you don’t know the mother of these kids I bloody do haven’t you read the papers rock spiders get off all the time. Maybe if it happened to your kids you would do the same

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  4. i used to live with liz downie and i know her well……..she should of got longer. What she has put kids and family through is disgustig……i hate her and thats why i ran from her

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    • What she had done was disgusting, but tried to keep her friends family out of it. Why did you not try to help, instead of running away? She was a troubled woman that need help more than anything.

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  5. I think it is ridiculous that the mother of these children only got 4 years. Reading this article it seems she was doing her best by the comments she was making to “friends” to accomplish this result. Of course the comments and accusations she was making against the victim would eventually get her desired result because the only friends she seems to have are alcoholics or drug addicts. So the kids were kept from their father for an “accusation of masterbation” will they keep the children from the mother when her actions and troll mouth actually lead to their fathers murder???? Feel so sorry for the children. Due to the mothers actions, they have lost BOTH parents. What sort of a person has a threesome after killing someone??? I really think the childrens lives would be harmed even further with the activites and actions they would witness from seeing her on a frequent basis let alone living with her. She may be in jail for 4 years – but she should not be able to see those children for the rest of her life.

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    • Thank you for asking the question about Downie being kept from my brother’s children when she is released from jail. She is an horrendous drug and alcohol addict who has emotionally and physically abused my brother’s children and others (including putting her own father in hospital after injuring him). If she continues her “love affair” with drugs and alcohol when she is released from jail, she will either kill herself or someone else (again). The children who my brother adored and cared for every day of his life do not need to be in her care ever and with the help of the police from the homicide department, I will make sure she does not reside with these wonderful kids.

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    • There was no intention of Martin Dick dying. She should be able to see her children for as long as her children would like to. The children were not kept from seeing their father, the girls just weren’t allowed to live with him due to him sexually abusing two of them, then starting to do things, that a text book Pedophilic person would do, to move to the next victim. All the people involved have done the wrong thing. The children will always love their parents equally over everything they have done.

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      • As I have previously asked; stop responding with comments about an horrendous, heart wrenching situation where you know NOTHING about the victim. There was EVERY intention of Martin being murdered (unless you are in contact with different detectives to those I speak with!!). There was never any sexual abuse of any kind, to anyone by my brother; I made sure I asked the RIGHT source about this (detective in charge of my brother’s murder case). Why is it you know about a “text book paedophilia” and what behaviours paedophiles
        follow anyway? Why do you not reveal who you are and stop hiding behind a set of keystrokes (asdfghjkl)?????

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        • I knew Martin and Elizabeth, so why don’t you not assume things. He had touched one of those girls himself, and masturbated in front of the other. Why don’t you ask them yourself? I know the text book pedophilia because I’ve looked into it myself out of concern for Martin and his children.

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          • Yours, Elizabeth’s and the Downie familys rumours and lies lead to the murder of Martin. Contact the homicide detectives to find the truth and do not continue to make comment on other people’s mis-information and out right lies.

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            • It is extraordinary what one finds on the internet. After having this comment thread drawn to my attention by an outsider, I am in shock tonight at finding that a relative of my grandchildren is making accusations that are a mixture of vituperative speculation and lies that could be regarded as defaming both her own and my family. My son in law was tragically murdered and but for my daughter he may still be alive to-day. My daughter was involved in a heinous crime and will be punished not only by the time she spends behind bars, but also by a damaged relationship with her own children, family and friends and to exposure to shame and disgrace for the rest of her life. I intend to discuss the language used by c.in this comment thread with my solicitor.

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    • As I sit at my computer and choose to reply to “igglepiggle”, the system has prompted me to leave a reply to Peter. Am I replying to igglepiggle or Peter, I wonder. Vituperative speculation and lies contiue to haunt us, Mary.

      In reply therefore to igglepiggle or Peter; yes, I will die, as we all will, when God chooses. My question would be wether your request for me to die constitutes a threat. I will be discussing this with my solicitor and my contact detective at the homicide squad today.

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  6. I really do not think this conversation should continue. Does it occur to any of you that Martin and Elizabeth’s children can read this stuff, and that it brings them grief anew? For all of the comments each of you make, the facts are that each of you, and I, know only part of the story, Martin is tragically dead, his children loved him and miss him every day. Elizabeth will spend at least 4 years in jail, a sentence set by a judge who knew a lot of the facts. The judge said in her judgement that nothing would bring Martin back, and the concern now must be for the children’s welfare. The children make their own choices each day about what they feel, whom they see and how they act. Catherine has always been able to apply to the Family Court\ to seek custody of the children but has not done so, and she can do so now or when Elizabeth is released from jail, At that time, if she chooses to do so, there will be the opportunity for the children to be questioned about what happened throughout their life, including between them and their mother and their father. It really does not matter right now what the truth is about the background to Martin’s tragic death. Catherine can believe whatever she likes, so long as she keeps it to herself. The Family Court will allow the juvenile children to make their own choices. By then, half of the children will be adults and able to make their own decisions. Let them do so, and in the meantime, live in peace. I urge the moderator to terminate this thread now.

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  7. Catherine,

    I do not know who igglepiggle is, but it certainly is not me. If you read my signed posting of 9:08pm, on 14 February, you should recognize my style of writing from the various documents I have sent to you and your solicitor over the years. Perhaps the moderator can clarify that it did not come from me. I certainly do not wish you dead, but rather that you may eventually become less bitter about what has happened over the years. For those of us trying to care for the children, we have always sought to encourage reconciliation rather than enmity. I will no longer respond to any posts on this site, regardless of their content.

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  8. Elizabeth will always be a quick witted, clever, funny, loving and beautiful person who despite making some poor choices loved her children, I should know she was my friend and a great one at that. Martin did do some questionable things to both Elizabeth and the children but regardless all that matters now is that their children have peace to continue their lives without all this rubbish on the Internet for they miss BOTH their mother and father and despite these setbacks have made a fabulous success of their lives. May Martin rest in peace and Lizzie have a successful life after this incident

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  9. By the way why doesn’t anyone stop and think of all the other people this has affected? like Elizabeths Grandparents working again in retirement for the betterment of Elizabeths and Martins children when they should be enjoying retirement? Lets not forget there are more than just two players in this situation ?

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  10. and cj who are you? the only young girl who ever lived with Lizzie was in fact the very person who gave her drugs and whom i blame for all this, that young girl in particular now lives in N.S.W and has to look in the mirror everyday knowing she started this chain, dont ever slander my best friend without the facts

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  11. I am deeply disturbed at finding this article and worse for finding the comments here. Don’t you think those kids are going to find this someday if they haven’t already?! I know the family and the kids well and have for a long, long time. I am disgusted, this is horrible. This is not a sound off about biased opinions. This is horrible. I am at work and almost in tears. This is public, this is no means to post your opinion here. This is easily accessible. This is the Internet. Those with your negative words and your untrue stories need to learn common courtesy. Those who don’t need to know the whole truth should not post anything at all. We are talking about potentially 6 kids looking at this page. How damaging these comments have been… You are all supposed to be family! And here you are mouthing off like keyboard warriors – you should be so ashamed! Grow up, you are all adults so act like one, especially when there are 6 young people that need all the support and love they can get. Again – this is only for the rudeness and arrogance on here. I don’t know you all – I know Mary (you are an angel and I look up to you) I hope some of you I never meet. To the others who understand respect, thank you, you’ve made this comments section less disturbing than it should be.

    This isn’t a page of character. This is an article of events that have happened. How dare some of you come here and lay down your biased opinions and attack a man who is now dead? This page is easily found if you type in Martin’s name. This will be found by his kids.

    To this website, to the author, I urge you to please delete and disable these comments or delete this article entirely.

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