Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on MOTIVE?


Murder shall be taken to have been committed where the act of the accused, or thing by him or her omitted to be done, causing the death charged, was done or omitted with reckless indifference to human life, or with intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon some person, or done in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission, by the accused, or some accomplice with him or her, of a crime…

This high profile case has captured the imagination of everybody it seems. From the day Allison went missing,  the suspicious behaviour of her husband, to the search, The discovery of her body, The funeral, The investigation, The media, and Arrest which came from nowhere and then the Bail application, the Bomb Threat, then Bail was denied and now GBC is on remand in Jail

So here we are many months later and what do we have. We obviously have a highly circumstantial case of Murder against Gerard Baden-Clay at the moment.

I think any ONE aspect taken in isolation could be seen to be suspicious.

But as one links all the pieces together they start to paint a much bigger picture.

Means, Motive, and Opportunity is a popular cultural summation of the three aspects of a crime needed to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant had to commit the crime (motive), and whether or not the defendant had the chance to commit the crime (opportunity). Opportunity is most often disproved by use of an alibi, which can prove the accused was not able to commit the crime as he or she did not have the correct set of circumstances to commit the crime. Ironically, motive is not an element of many crimes, but proving motive can often make it easier to convince a jury of the elements that must be proved for a conviction. Furthermore, a showing of the presence of these three elements is not, in and of itself, sufficient to convict beyond a reasonable doubt; the evidence must prove that an opportunity presented was indeed taken by the accused and for the crime with which he or she is charged.

Motive, that being the massive financial debt, the affairs and the promise to leave his wife to his mistress, Toni McHugh.

Opportunity, did Gerard have the opportunity to murder his wife. Could of someone else done it? Was he helped in anyway?

Means, if he did murder her, How did he go about it. How was she killed?, where was she killed?, When did it happen?, Where was she taken? The list goes on.

The pieces of clues to this puzzle are significant and reach wide. We are going to have a go at documenting them right here folks UNDER THE FOLLOWING HEADINGS

MOTIVE

that being the massive financial debt, the affairs and the promise to leave his wife to his mistress, Toni McHugh.

PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD TO THIS SUBJECT ONLY

I will use my discretion and delete irrelevant comments

MOTIVE thread

OPPORTUNITY thread

MEANS thread

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368 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on MOTIVE?

  1. @Mrs muddle….older comments…

    Olivia W says:
    July 6, 2012 at 4:15 pm & 4.24pm

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  2. pugville

    I’m sitting back and enjoying a nutter on the loose, with a little scotch to warm me on what is a very cold evening.

    I really wanted to stay out of here but to heck with it. What have I got to lose? If they are going to abuse 1, they may as well abuse all of us.

    Funny part is, they don’t realise they are also incriminating themselves. LOL, they are so dumb :)

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  3. I know Mrs Scott.
    Enjoy your scotch, I am just topping up my glass of red ;-)

    I really need to get to bed, but this OW rat has thrown me a bit.
    If I had to put money on it, I dunno lol.
    One part of me says she is a phoney, but the other says they WANT to say their peace?

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  4. I’m about ready to tuck in for the night. Don’t let it bother you pugville. If you let it get to you, he/she wins. Switch off and go to bed knowing that you will sleep well but this person will be awake all night figuring out new ways to get everyone ticked off.

    Olivia wouldn’t come in here and implicate herself as it could incriminate the whole family. She’s not that silly. She’s fighting to get her brother off a murder charge and coming into a forum like this means she’s contributed to a site thats about justice for Allison.

    Go back over what this person wrote, its more harmful than good. He/she said, I didn’t really like Allison anyway. Does that not tell you thats incriminating herself and the family?

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  5. Kenmore Mum – which thread? The lounge? The earliest post in this thread says 8.08pm for me?

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  6. Robbo has deleted them. Can someone please tell me what this crackpot posing as OW said?

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  7. Goodnight pugville.

    mrsmuddle

    I can’t remember all of it but it was more harmful to them than it was to us.

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  8. Sorry Mrs muddle…motive thread. The post you can see is the continuation. Look above “leave a reply” for the older comments. They were still there before.

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  9. mrsmuddle says:
    July 6, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Just checked and the OW posts haven’t been deleted, they’re still there (for what they’re worth.)

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  10. Found it! Hahaha who said would the real Olivia Walton please stand up? lol comedy gold!!

    I can tell you right now that’s not her lol. Don’t sweat your cotton socks over it kids. Jeez, it was pretty funny though. You will notice that there is nothing in either of those two posts that hasn’t been said in the media in the last 3 months – any joker could have posted that rubbish. Completely designed to get a rise… all the feel good work, and the thanks we get.. wow, riveting stuff, go and do a bit more homework on this family you nut job and come back with a little more substance next time.

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  11. @ mrsmuddle

    at the bottom of this thread you’ll find written in red ‘Older Comments’. Click on this and it will take you to previous posts where you’ll find the bogus Olivia W comments.

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  12. Thanks Reality Bites, I’m normally all over it, but tonight the mind boggles, been a big week lol. It really wasn’t worth the suspense either. Dang!

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  13. @ Caterpillar
    Wasn’t GBC born in Bournemouth? Spooky!
    Another case of misplaced loyalty.

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  14. Not sure Reality but it is such a crazy story. i love the bit at the end where the judge says that there wil be no champagne, bentley’s and whatever else for the next 16 years behind bars. You will have plenty of time to think about what you have done.

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  15. @ Caterpillar

    Wot? No champagne?

    Interesting also that the murderer searched the net prior to strangling her in a fit of rage.

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  16. @ Reality Bites. They are all the same. Stupid fools. I think my 16 month old daughter even knows that the cops will check your search history when you murder someone.

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  17. Good lord says:
    July 6, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    I agree…..shocked me that so many thought it to be the real OW,,,,

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  18. Interesting to see all the lawyer ads now appearing on the site but I guess we all need to make a living …

    I’ve cleared a lot of lantana scrub on my property here at ANSTEAD and while I’ve had ant, spider, tick and the odd leech bite never a caterpillar attack …. Some people seem to have a lot of bad luck.

    To those sincere and genuine posters thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings about Allison and this despicable crime over the the past few months….

    To Mrs Scott and members of the lonely matrons support group congratulations on dominating and bending the forum into your own exclusive club.. Good on you … Enjoy…

    As you have probably guessed this is my last post / reading in this forum.

    I ‘m taking my caterpillar off to play in another sand pit.

    All the best.

    Love
    I
    Xxxx

    Like

  19. Caterpillar says: July 6, 2012 at 11:23 pm Thats a very similar case..family cover-up. As suggested the judge should have both parents 5-10 years, as they raised the Moron and condoned his actions resulting in an Antipodean being murdered like a piece of trash. This sentence needs reviewing, the state should sieze their assets to pay for their incarceration. Its a pity its not the USA and the death penalty didn’t apply for Ugly son !

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  20. ICanCU – don’t go!!! Stick around in the serious threads please! We need serious posters like you here! I hope you will reconsider :o

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  21. Hi everyone been i have been off site for a few days…WHAT was this OW blog?? i can’t find it.
    Been down to the bridge this morning and tidied up all the dead and dying flowers and put new fresh ones up. Re how Allison died so many suppositions but another one was that she was found with her T shirt around her neck? strangled most likey..but we will get the truth in the end.
    Also why is GBC being separated from the other “boys” in Prison? he needs to be put out with everyone else…

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  22. ‘THE father of Gerard Baden-Clay has been banned from having a contact visit with his imprisoned son.

    Nigel Baden-Clay has applied to gain direct access to the former real estate agent, 41, who last month was charged with murdering his wife Allison, but has been denied it by authorities.

    Mr Baden-Clay Sr has already visited his son at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre but it was a “non-contact” visit. They remained separated by glass, but could hear each other talk. A contact visit means they would be in the same room and could hug.’

    ‘All conversations on the phone or in person between prisoners and visitors are monitored by Queensland Corrective Services officers and can also be recorded, except those with the prisoners’ lawyers.

    The Courier-Mail understands Mr Baden-Clay Sr demanded to see his son at Indooroopilly police station when Gerard was first arrested and charged on June 13 with murder and interfering with a corpse.

    Gerard Baden-Clay has had several visitors since being jailed, including from high-profile criminal lawyers Chris Nyst and Michael Bosscher.

    However, it is understood only his original solicitor, Darren Mahony, has been retained, along with barrister Peter Davis SC.

    Gerard Baden-Clay was denied bail in the Supreme Court last month after the judge determined he was a flight risk.

    He was recently transferred to a protected cell and his case is due back in court next week.

    Baden-Clay reported to police that his wife, 43, went missing on April 20. Her body was discovered at Kholo Creek 10 days later after an extensive search.

    The signage at his Century 21 office at Taringa, in Brisbane’s inner west, has since been removed and his family have spent the past week clearing out the rented Brookfield home where Gerard and wife Allison had lived with their three daughters.

    Wow, interesting! The police really must be on to NBC and not want to give him and Gerard any chance to get their stories straight. At least with non-contact visits the line can be recorded, but with contact visits you can pretty much say what you want to your loved one without it being heard.

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  23. Hello frogman

    In reply to your post at 12.52pm today. It was said in the paper that GBC was put into protective custody but not at his request. I for one am not going to believe that.

    He’s been assessed by the medical staff so therefore he should be socialising with the other inmates. Having said that, the reason for the protective custody could be to get him to crack so to speak. He’s in a cold cell all by himself. He’s not allowed contact visits from his father. That has got to be getting to him by now? Just imagine being all alone in a cold place, no one to talk to other than your lawyer when they pop in for a quick chat. Its a cold and lonely place to be and it will have him crawling the walls soon. I think he’ll be the one to crack. His mother won’t because she needs to stay “strong” to keep the family together and to also maintain and keep the family home.

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  24. In the English case where the parents covered for their mutant son after he’d murdered the lovely kiwi girl — what many don’t realise is that the mother’s occupation was in the police force

    As to Bentleys and caviare, not sure why the judge felt compelled to paint the family as well to do, considering (according to reports) their ‘mansion’ has a value of no greater than 300,000 Pounds

    Like

  25. Meant to suggest, days ago, that it’s very possible Bruce Underworld misrepresented his financial worth to his mistress (the older one of the lot). He reportedly told her he ‘could not afford’ to divorce Allison, implying he would have to part with too much cash/assets, etc. Ludicrous of course, because he was worse than stony broke. But I’m betting TM didn’t know that, or she would have surely challenged him and said, ‘ Oh come on Bruce – you can’t AFFORD to divorce Allison? You don’t have a bean anyway, so what does ‘affording’ a divorce have to do with it — just get the damn divorce started or I’m off ‘

    Maybe in the future, we’ll learn that TM had been led to believe that Bruce Underworld had hidden assets (and not in his shorts) which would ‘be discovered’ if he were to divorce Allison. I doubt *very* much that TM had *any* idea just how broke Bruce actually was. If she’d known, even her tiny brain might have realised her money was the entirety of her attractiveness and the only reason Bruce was spending/wasting time with her

    Wondering now how many women of a certain age in the Brookfield region were foolishly conned by a guy in a yellow jacket to lend him money. Have a feeling a lot of those women are losing weight fast through worry they might be named further down the line

    Like

  26. Hi Robbo,
    may I suggest you combine the Motive, Opportunity and Means threads into one thread so that we have an “on topic” thread and an “off topic” thread (the Lounge)?
    I for one am loathe to scan the Lounge for any “on topic” comments. Does my head in sometimes!
    Cheers :-)

    Like

  27. I second Reality Bites’ idea – for one strictly GBC case thread (maybe combining motive, means & opportunity?) – it is difficult to separate these 3 during discussion sometimes, they are often entwined. Will be good to be able to go to and only keep track of one such on-topic thread. Very happy to have the lounge and other related topic threads eg the technology one separate.

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  28. MOTIVE
    Motive was MONEY
    MONEY Pure and simple and probablly the oldest motive in the book.
    One word, MONEY and lots of it

    Not even the affair/ affairs would have been sufficient motive for this piece of work.
    In fact if he got away with this successfully, Ms Toni would have next ……..after her money ran out.
    And then…………next…………and so on.

    (Just thought I’d drop this in …In case we go off the three threads idea)

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  29. Yes please Robbo, only ONE thread to discuss the GBC case, and the lounge for those who want to chat. You are doing a great job.

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  30. Had a look over at another crime site and there was Doc Watson making valuable contributions. We need you here too Doc.
    Also missing contributions from BB, MM, GHS, Two Cents, Chris, Redback/JJE, Clueless etc etc (there are too many to mention. . .you know who you are).

    You are all sorely missed :'(

    Like

  31. Reality Bites
    The Doc Watson over there is a male person.
    Our Doc Watson was a female doctor. A proper real practicing hospital doctor. Very genuine, very good and very sorely missed.

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  32. Dear Queensland Country Lady,

    In the end, Doc Watson admitted that she isn’t a doctor, but wanting to be one :D No matter, she is a lovely lady, and it was “Holyhellbatman” who scared her off by threatening her career.

    Here is what Doc Watson said:

    “I have written everything I had to say, and don’t wish to give medical receptionists (who wish they were ER doctors) a bad name by continuing to contribute. ;)

    Like

  33. @ QCL
    thanks for the heads up on the Doc Watsons. Would be great to have a fair dinkum doctor’s perspective on injuries, blood loss etc.

    I’m perplexed with the blood in the vehicle and only a chipped tooth to account for it.
    Surely there’s more to it?

    Like

    • Doc Watson on Websleuths is a thoracic and vascular surgeon in Brisbane. Qualifications have been varified by Websleuths moderators.

      Like

  34. Moonlight 7.06 pm

    Well do I remember that post. But I never twigged that “medical receptionists (who wish they were ER doctors)”
    might have been referreing to herself Doc Watson.

    I cerainly remember HHB having the last laugh in “exposing” Doc W
    And feeling like she HHB had done the whole world and Robbos site a huge favour Not that Doc ever said she or he was male or female.
    That was Goodbye Doc W That was the end result.

    Hells bells I could even be a bloke. Ha! Ha! Nah not me!

    Yes Doc Watsons posts were very special and so altogether insightful

    Like

  35. @ Char

    according to the FB Justice page 07/07/12 the Committal Mention is at 10am. I can’t verify that though.

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  36. Thankyou @Reality Bites!! I guess I will wait for the release of times at 6:45 to be sure :)

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  37. Hi All
    I haven’t been here for a while as I’ve been in “The Lounge” sipping a nice red.
    Not sure if I’m on the right link as it’s all a bit confusing!

    However, re the cause of death… like many of us, has me confused.
    So going through what has been disclosed to us by the QPS.

    1. Allision was reported missing approx 7.30am.
    2. Police attended the house shortly after & then detectives were called in. I was under the impression, that a person had to be missing for over 24 hours before the Police would get involved let alone Detectives!
    3. What did the Police observe at the house that morning that made them immediately involve Detectives? Obviously something was amiss in that house.
    4. Police treated Allision’s disappearance as suspicious long before they found her.
    5. Upon her discovery, it was stated as a murder investigation.
    6. Nil obvious signs of death or injury except a chipped tooth but she was released for burial within 24 hours.
    7. Significant amount of Alllision’s blood found in one of the family cars.

    I’m not even gone to start on the extremely odd behavior of Bruce & his family, the scratches & the caterpillar :)

    Now to my theory on the cause of death.
    I think she died by suffocation or strangulation, but the blood came from internal injuries.

    Many years ago, my Ex husband of 4 years walked into my home & attacked me.
    He thought he was so clever not hitting me on my face but to the back of my head & groin, so as not to leave physical signs.
    I thought I was so mentally strong & would have given back if I was ever attacked but this came from nowhere & I just went to jello.
    He only stopped because our then 12 yr old came running in from the car screaming for his dad to stop.
    He then took off with the kids & I found myself bleeding from my privates…quite a significant amount.

    I do not want any sympathy as I have moved on from this & hopefully my son has also after much counseling.

    My point…I had not external injuries (apart from bruising) but there was a quite a lot of blood.
    Therefore I think Allision also suffered internal injuries that would then account for the blood in the car.

    My Ex got off with a 12 month “Good Behavior” & a 2 year AVO, but Karma finally came around 10 years later.
    Both our kids have nothing to do with him…..through their own choice!!

    I was one of the lucky ones, unlike Allision, I survived !!

    Like

  38. @ NSW Aussie Mum,

    am dashing off to work now but just wanted to acknowledge your post.
    Food for thought re internal bleeding. Your experience has left me colder than the temp this morning. . .it would be easy for you to be bitter but so glad to hear you and your children are indeed survivors.
    I’ve posted previously about one’s behaviour when one thinks no-one is watching (behind closed doors). Makes me wonder who the @#$% I’m working with, standing in the queue with. . . and in yours and ABC’s case actually married to.

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  39. To Dear NSW Aussie Mum

    Regarding your post 1.51am

    1 I am very glad that you are alive to tell the tale. Sounds like that is a miracle in itself

    2 Thank-you for posting your story on the Means Thread here. Very relevant

    3 That in itself is very brave of you.

    4 You have also explained the weapons (or lack of weapons) and the Means whereby such injuries can occur.

    5 I hope that by sharing your story, other women in the same boat as you were might see the light and get out whilst they still can.

    6 I wish Allison had done so.

    7 Wonder why he only got 12 months………….or did he with extra with Karma?

    8 I suppose he thinks he is a man? ************ (Censured language)

    9 Best wishes and lots of love to you.

    10 Lastly I still have to find my teeth that fell out when I first read your post. Too shocking, too terrible.

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  40. Wow NSW Aussie Mum (1.51am) ! Wow !
    Not a lot makes me speechless but your post has floored me !
    I know you don’t want sympathy….still I am sorry this happened to you.
    You are one brave lady and we, all of us in here are so glad that you survived.
    I have to ask (answer or not if you cannot) Had your husband shown any previous tendencies to this outburst or was it out of the blue ?
    I had a boyfriend once who beat me and I scedaddled so fast. BUT in retrospect I foresaw it. One night after annoying him he ‘pretended’ to give me a hiding. I found it odd (?) but then I was young and fairly naive. The next time after playing a fun joke on him he bit me (seriously ?!) I still doubted it, in fact made excuses for his behaviour, after all he was wealthy, well educated and ‘well brought up’. The third time he pinned me down and hit me ! That was it and I was out of there. What you can see there was a lead up….(Oh did I not mention he was my boss…who was going to believe me ?!)
    Did you have a lead up ?
    I wonder if Allison had any ‘lead ups’
    I know that her friends say that she never said anything but I wonder if she ever any unexplained bruises or marks or whether GBC was like your man and made sure that there never any marks in public view?

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  41. Re GBC’s committal hearing, what do you guys think of the time frame the prosecution expects it to take (~5 months!) to provide all the necessary proof of MOTIVE, including the main one being a financial involving assessment of GBC’s business affairs, and the magistrate’s disbelief that it should take this long?

    Is QP ridiculously uinderstaffed or what? Is there only one specialist in each area so if he is on leave or sick everying comes to a halt? Should the magistrate not know this? I’m really perplexed by the situation. Any ideas on tryin gto make sense of it?

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  42. NSW Aussie Mum concur with the last three posts. Good to hear that you and your children have moved on and this is behind you.

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  43. ;-) Forgive me for reposting this (I had put it in the lounge….)
    However, I feel it is more apt being in here as it deals with motive.

    >>They say…follow the money… it was the motive.

    I’ll bet that the computers and phones are being dissected layer by layer forensically.
    We’ve already noted that his debts were huge and yet there does not seem to be any assets. Where did all that borrowed money go ?
    We already know he had one other name (Bruce) maybe Bruce had bank accounts or Bruce had a few other names….maybe ?

    Looking forward to the computer and phone results…. ;-) >>

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  44. @ NSW Aussie Mum
    “He then took off with the kids & I found myself bleeding from my privates…quite a significant amount.”

    I feel sick to the stomach with what you endured. Sending you strength and all the love a stranger can possibly give you. :-) :-) :-)

    From personal experience I do know that reality bites, and it bites hard. Hence my ‘name’.

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  45. to RIP Allison
    I think it’s a question of resources, and how they get used.
    How many Forensic Pathologists do Qld. Gov. employ ?
    And how many haematologists, histologists, etc
    What is their case load ?
    How many IT experts do they have access to ?
    Let alone Forensic Accountants …
    … and other expert witnesses
    etc
    etc
    But I do share your frustration.

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  46. There is now another ‘serious’ thread now “Gerard Baden-Clay will return to court on September 3, 2012″

    See http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2012/07/09/update-gerard-baden-clay-will-return-to-court-on-september-3-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-44736

    I noticed a few good ‘serious’ posts made in the lounge today, which would have fitted very well onto one of the ‘serious discussion’ threads. I have mentioned them in the new thread – feel free to expand on the topic there if you wish.

    I suspect maybe the 3 serious threads were a bit confusing becuse not everything always fitted in one of the motive, means and opportunity threads exactly.

    How about we start gathering ALL the serious on-topic posts in this new thread now so that we have one ‘serious on-topic’ and one chit-chat thread? That way no one on the serious thread will get frustrated with the chit-chatting, and no one in the lounge will get frustrated by serious posters who do not want to read chit-chat. Sounds like a potential win-win situation to me… hopefully blog heaven :)

    Then we can use the thumbs up and down as they are no doubt intended – constructively – up for ‘great post’ or ‘I agree’; down for ‘didn’t like the idea’ or ‘I disagree’…..without any unnecessary posts to this effect – not to be taken personally of course! Should be sweet….

    Everyone up for this?

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  47. Hi All

    Thank you so much for for your kindnesses.

    This occurred some 12 years ago & I have moved on.

    However having said that, not a day goes past I wonder why I didn’t leave earlier & then I see my 2 gorgeous kids who wouldn’t be here if I had.

    There was never physical violence within my marriage but heaps of emotional blackmail.
    I held it together as I wanted a family.
    It was 4 years after our divorce that my Ex attacked me…….
    Absolutely no warning.

    I think Allision & I had this in common…we just wanted to keep our family together…

    Sadly , Allision & I picked the wrong man !!

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  48. Just want to leave you all on a Positive Note!!

    Both my kids have survived ….
    My 23 year son has had full time employment since leaving school & about to start his own business.
    My daughter still at school ( in Year 11) has just topped English, Math, Cafs & come in top 5% of her other subjects.

    A proud mum…YELL YES….Are we survivals …….ABSOLUTELY !!

    Only wish Allision could be here to celebrate with me……as a survivor of domestic violence.

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  49. NSW Aussie Mum,

    I am so sorry for what you had to go through, I really feel for you; however, the positiveness that has come from it all is inspiring!

    Good on you all!

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