Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on MOTIVE?


Murder shall be taken to have been committed where the act of the accused, or thing by him or her omitted to be done, causing the death charged, was done or omitted with reckless indifference to human life, or with intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon some person, or done in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission, by the accused, or some accomplice with him or her, of a crime…

This high profile case has captured the imagination of everybody it seems. From the day Allison went missing,  the suspicious behaviour of her husband, to the search, The discovery of her body, The funeral, The investigation, The media, and Arrest which came from nowhere and then the Bail application, the Bomb Threat, then Bail was denied and now GBC is on remand in Jail

So here we are many months later and what do we have. We obviously have a highly circumstantial case of Murder against Gerard Baden-Clay at the moment.

I think any ONE aspect taken in isolation could be seen to be suspicious.

But as one links all the pieces together they start to paint a much bigger picture.

Means, Motive, and Opportunity is a popular cultural summation of the three aspects of a crime needed to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant had to commit the crime (motive), and whether or not the defendant had the chance to commit the crime (opportunity). Opportunity is most often disproved by use of an alibi, which can prove the accused was not able to commit the crime as he or she did not have the correct set of circumstances to commit the crime. Ironically, motive is not an element of many crimes, but proving motive can often make it easier to convince a jury of the elements that must be proved for a conviction. Furthermore, a showing of the presence of these three elements is not, in and of itself, sufficient to convict beyond a reasonable doubt; the evidence must prove that an opportunity presented was indeed taken by the accused and for the crime with which he or she is charged.

Motive, that being the massive financial debt, the affairs and the promise to leave his wife to his mistress, Toni McHugh.

Opportunity, did Gerard have the opportunity to murder his wife. Could of someone else done it? Was he helped in anyway?

Means, if he did murder her, How did he go about it. How was she killed?, where was she killed?, When did it happen?, Where was she taken? The list goes on.

The pieces of clues to this puzzle are significant and reach wide. We are going to have a go at documenting them right here folks UNDER THE FOLLOWING HEADINGS

MOTIVE

that being the massive financial debt, the affairs and the promise to leave his wife to his mistress, Toni McHugh.

PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD TO THIS SUBJECT ONLY

I will use my discretion and delete irrelevant comments

MOTIVE thread

OPPORTUNITY thread

MEANS thread

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368 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on MOTIVE?

  1. @ Queensland Country Lady . . . . .Personally I believe that TMH assisted the Police by providing a statement that implicated GBC, and possibly did not implicate herself, although I don’t believe that she assisted or had any knowledge of the impending crime. I believe that GMC planned this murder, however a situation developed on the Thursday night whereby he killed Allison in a way that he had not planned.

    This whole murder IMO was not planned for that night, and is full of amateur mistakes, bumbling and downright lies and stupidity. GMC’s behaviour, apart from the actual act of murder, is nothing but an insult to our intelligence, as for TMH well wasn’t she interviewed 3 times before she took off to Sydney ? I’m certain that the Police informed her of certain aspects of GBC’s behaviour that she was totally oblivious of . . . Including his other women and his financial woes. TMH must have her own insecurity problems, who in their right mind would have an ongoing affair, and believe in its future, with someone who is almost a million dollars in debt ? She worked with him, and was in some sort of relationship with him, for long enough to know about the debt IMO.

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  2. Hi XD .. Agree with you regarding TMc .. She was reported as giving a statement to police on 22nd .. Only 2 days after idiot psycho boy reckons he couldn’t find his wife. Maybe she would have either given all the details of Bruce’s subsequent super sneaky texts, emails and calls to the police or they may have even monitored them direct. Gotcha Bruce!

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  3. And the circus gets bigger-these scum have no limits (including murder) to try and get their poor wee sleaze ball son a get out of jail free (for murder) card.
    All we need now is a police chase around S.E Queensland and a Ford Bronco (licence plate BWANA) live on T.V.
    Three criminal defence law firms and Qld’s most high profile Barrister, you may as well through in a few politicians, state and federal in the back drops.
    What a joke of a legal system, and a complete farce on the good people of Queensland.
    We the Queensland Public are paying for this ALREADY Tens of Millions of dollars wasted on this GERBIL / NBC charade and Allison’s search the QPS busting at the seams / SES and a massive incarceration bill (that’s medical incarnation- for this cowardly fruitloop).
    They bring in an oldtime Crim defence lawyer with no-doubt more links on the inside than Ivan Mallat- Just a farce of a system !
    Magsitrates throw the book at them!
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/third-lawyer-joins-baden-clay-team/story-e6freon6-1226415091838

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  4. good morning All, sure is a circus Angel..this has to go down in history as one of the most disgusting families..they are absolutely sickening. They didn’t have the $30,000 to pay their last Lawyer and had to stoop so low and bludge the money of other people. Obviously OW raised a lot more than$30,000 from the ‘flock’ worldwide for them to now pay for a 3rd Lawyer. or maybe Daddy took out a loan. When it’s all finished and GBC gets his 20 yrs in Prison ole Daddy might also be stoney broke and bankrupt. GBC is now out of his ‘sick’ cell, however is now placed in protective custody so he doesn’t have to face the other prisoners. Still seems ‘what GBC wants…GBC gets.

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  5. I can’t tell you how offensive I find Nige’s number plate. I bet they left Sth Africa because they knew that their days of lording over the poor black African’s were numbered.

    They probably made the exodus to “a safer place” because to stay in Rhodesia they would have been rightfully disposed, or killed.

    BWANA meaning master, boss whatever you want to say, sums up people like them.They might have been of minor importance back then, when they had their houseboys and other slaves, but here in the land of plenty they were and are NOBODY’s.

    I bet ole Nige has been bailing out loser boy G forever. If that house of Nige’s is their only asset, then gee, as a finance expert, I’d rather use Peter Foster.

    There are lots of theories about why and when and how, but basically, Love Chunks Gx killed her, face- called Daddy with a made up story, or ‘ I did it” and daddy came to assist with the removal of Allison’s body.

    I call that an accessory to murder- I think Nige should go down too. Karma- what goes around comes around.

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  6. Dan

    You posted at 4.25pm yesterday.

    I knew where you were coming from. Allisons killers would want it to look like suicide but thats well and truly backfired in their faces.

    Its the position of the body that speaks volumes. No way did she jump off that bridge although some might want us to believe that just as they want us to believe Allison was depressed and the in laws are still grieving.

    All I can say to them is, poppy c*ck!

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  7. Bwana number plate ? Well why doesn’t that surprise me ? NBC and his wife, along with GBC, have displayed arrogance and attitude of superiority over everyone from the moment Allison went missing. I am in no way a racist, nor do I want to be, but can someone please explain why this superiority complex/attitude has been a very obvious personality trait in the white South African people that I have encountered in my lifetime ?

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  8. Can we get an explantion on these “gentlemans agreement” loans that Bruce was on the counter for ……..

    1) Who is it from and for how much ?
    2) Why was it made and when ?
    3) How was it to be repaid ?

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  9. I know a number of South African people through my children’s school sport and the like and I would call then humble salt of the earth people – one guy has coached cricket and is so great the opposition parents have raves about how encouraging etc he is of all the boys – so we shouldn’t generalize – it’s too easy to do that – not all South Africans benefited from or believed in racial superiority just as not ll Germans were tarred with Hitlers evil brush – BWANA is as bad as people say though and I pray he goes down as an accessory after the fact at least – I think he was complicit in hatching the whole plan along with crazy sister and Mustard.

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  10. I agree that we should not tar all White South African’s with the same brush. BUT we are talking Nige here and when they left Rhodesia was right at the height of Apartheid having to have some reforms- further to leading to Apartheid abolishment. People like Nige wouldn’t have liked losing their power over the little people- so hence left. With their very minor ancestral Lord and Ladyship history, they would have been the first to be targeted by the uprising Black African’s. And rightly so In my opinion.
    Anyone would would have to agree with number plates BWANA, this is not one of the South African’s you know and like.

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  11. Agreed SAF, I have lived in a few places overseas with White Sth Africans (Africa in general) and it depends, some can be ruthless and some can be easy going – so there was 2 spectrums-agreed we shouldn’t generalize – it’s too easy to do that – not all South Africans benefited from or believed in racial superiority. Here in Queensland I have met 3 diffeerent ex-African white families and they were all nice people. BWANANA has cooked his own Goose by not talking, no help in search, no empathy for the Dickies, all indications-video call- are accessory. As such those on here for a long time and reading all the public reports he comes across as guilty as SIN and QPS would be so onto him. Yep looking like he’s going down as an accessory after the fact at least – I think he was complicit in hatching the whole plan along with crazy sister and Mustard-agreed SAF!

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    • sash: “Spotted the Bwanna car on rafting ground road this morning corner of Westridge St Brookfield parked at 8.30 am with Mr and Mrs Bwanna looking a bit bemused and staring into the distance. It seemed bit strange to me ?”

      Perhaps they had the look of smugness on their faces. Smugly thinking they were safe from prosecution and that the “Mean Team” would get sonny boy off the charges.

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  12. judgejuryexecutioner says:
    July 3, 2012 at 9:16 am

    possible some of the money given to GBC as ‘gentlemans agreement’ could have come from his Masonic friends. As we have all seen GBC is a liar and an actor (not good at either) so he’s possibly made some crap story about what he needs the money for.

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  13. I’m sorry Saf and Susan, I have not had the pleasure of meeting such nice people of that origin, and I didn’t mean to generalize, what I am trying to say is that the Bwana number plates so typifies the attitude of the BC family.

    In relation to accomplices, one would imagine that NBC’s wife would also done, you can’t tell me that she is not aware of her husband’s involvement ?

    I would imagine that the QPS have NBC’s home and telephone under electronic surveillance, and sooner rather than later the BC family will bring themselves undone.

    Loose lips sink ships !

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  14. Dear XD, no need to apologise to me if that’s what you were doing, as I am in total agreement with you. I have yet to meet nice ones- I live in Sydney and have mostly done so in the Eastern Suburbs.
    My wordy lordy! The accent alone is enough.

    That whole “big game hunter” bull—t. Who does sleazyboynige think he is- a member of the British Royal Family?

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  15. I am shocked at the number of lawyers he is getting – I think there must be some very big players behind the scenes , bigger than Nige even. Im not so sure of the Masonic connection – I was a Mason and its based on religion ( the great architect of the universe = God )and good character, while I was there one guy was bankrupted and was asked to leave the Masons – I left cos it was too expensive we were always having to donate to charities, Police widows and orphans funds etc – you never ceased putting yr hands in yr pockets so I couldnt afford both the money and the time that you were expected to put in.

    This case is amazing and I cannot seem to fathom it .

    I stress thie BC’s are a very questionable family and this is a heinous crime – I am an African so thanks for the support from some of you and to the others please lay off the racism – Ive never called anyone a black c… before in my life and I have heard that phrase so often here and if you want to point fingers then please go and look at your Aboriginal settlements..

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  16. Ozmosis lets hope that never happens. And then i read another post about highway police chases and helicopters, and i was reminded of someone about as innocent as Love Chunks GX- OJ Simpson, and look what happened there.
    Justice is not always served.

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  17. Shocknawe

    Good for you! There is no room in society for rasism. We all have red blood pumping through our veins regardless of whether someone is black, white or brindle.

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  18. Some facts regarding Nigel and Elaine

    They did not assist in any way in the search for Allison Baden Clay.
    They did not make any public appeals for help in search.
    They did not not assist the police in their investigations (from what I can glean)
    They did not put forward any money towards the search effort. Or associated expenses.

    They did see fit to do an on television public pash when Allison was still missing.
    They do appear to support Gerard
    They did appear at the funeral but spoke nothing in her Allison’s favour.
    No words of praise. No sorrow. No tears. No words of comfort for Dickies. No shock. Nothing
    They have never appeared to be grieving for Allison or the horrible way she was murdered.

    They do sport BWANA publicly. Is that a sick joke or what?
    The do sport dead animal skulls at the front of their house.
    Is that supposed to advertise great killing prowess?

    The only Queenslanders I have known, with big animal horns displayed for public admiration were BUTCHERS. In butchers shops. And there was usually a good story to go with that. There are probably others with hunting trophies but they are not the norm.

    And now Nigel and Elaine want time to be left alone to “grieve” their daughter in law. And I suppose they expect the public to believe that?

    They have always appeared SMUG and uncaring. Even slightly amused at times. What IS all the fuss about anyway?
    The last paragraph here is just my humble opinion.

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  19. I may be wrong as i often am, but not once have i seen the Baden Clay’s appealing to the public to find the person or person’s responsible for killing Allison to come foward, or for anyone who knows anything about the murder to come forward. If Gerard is as innocent as they claim they should be screaming loud and clear ” FIND HER KILLER”.Instead, they hire 3 lawyers to defend him.

    The hideous way that they have no shame in asking people to “donate” money for lawyers to free Gx, but have never asked their friends to donate money to assist Allison’s parents and the girls. The fundraising efforts were form the public, not them- and btw, did any of that clan attend that fundraiser or were they too “grief stricken” to attend?

    I donate money to worthy causes, not to free gulity murderers.

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  20. Apartheid has been mentioned a few times in relation to the Baden Clays and Rhodesia.

    Apartheid is an Afrikaans word [White South African Lingo] meaning seperate development much like the white Australia policy in place in this country at that time.

    Rhodesia did not have an apartheid policy South Africa had the racist Apartheid policy and as far as I know the Baden Clays never lived in South Africa but did choose to live in a Country that had the White Australia policy.

    Its all on the net so do not throw stones.

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  21. Yep Well Put QCL and Susan, you ladies remembered…… all the points of these (supposed innocent until the sleeptalking phone/blood splattered car.. proven guilty )… Scuzzballs …… and I so agree!
    Getting back to the motive MONEY ….. The Skulls try and “pull the wool” over everyones eyes- pleading for money- The church flock, the public for defence funds.
    Then now when they KNOW they are fully BBQ”D as a family, as has been suggested- they take their biggest risk yet and wave the carrot at the 3 Criminal defence douche lawyers and 1 barristers, winner takes all.
    There is something sadly wrong with the legal system when the prosecution and QPS have to come up against this “attempted perversion of justice”. Not to mention the cost and destructive effects on Queensland/Brisbane community.

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  22. Dear Sasha, I can read Wikipedia too, and call it what you will or won’t re technical term of “apartheid”, and essentially it means that there was no equality between the blacks and whites.

    The white population of 1% yet holds 70 % per cent of landholdings. It might be a good idea to google “white people in Zimbabwe”, as it offers a pretty telling reason why Nige left the country when he did.

    And I agree, re Australia at the time “White Australia Policy’, but perhaps that is exactly the reason Baden Clays decided to settle here, rather than some other British Colony. Maybe to remind him of the good ole days back in his mother country.

    Anyone who drives around brandishing the number plate BWANA deserves all the contempt they get.

    I also totally understand that not all of us hold the racial and political views of our country.

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  23. I note that NBC, being the son of Lord Baden-Powell’s daughter, started life as merely “Clay”. It was only in later life that he changed his name by deed poll to highlight his famous (paedophile)grandfather. Trivial piece of info that this may be, it does suggest a very narcissistic mindset…

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  24. KiwiJane,

    eeekkkyukkk!

    Another notable psychopath who changed his name to reflect his relative’s “achievements” is Matthew Milat.

    The puzzle is being pieced together now exactly how and why Love Gx became such a murdering, emotionless a-hole.

    I almost hate Nige more than Love Chunks Gx.

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  25. @ kiwi anne, I am interested in the pedophile link, where did that come to light ? Only asking because in my previous life I had the misfortune of dealing with many of such lowlifes, and unfortunately the majority of same had a connection to the scouting movement, or a certain religion.

    Suffice to say that should I have been blessed with parenthood, my children would never have gone to church, Sunday school, or scouts.

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  26. Yep Macca -Sica a Career GRUB- ex Crim -didn’t learn and more charges of Stat rape to come! and he didn’t do half the dumb things Gerbail and NBC did. But obviously it was him- Great work QPS and the Judiciary- he can talk crap like the Baden Ducks, all he wants but he was obviously guilty 82 when he gets released…Well NBC… lokks like you will die in jail – any chance for a bit of BWANA pillow talk? xox …. just saying ;-)

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  27. I vote premeditation. If not planned for that night, planned for very soon after – last minute adjustment in time or date does not remove premeditation for me. Big bills needed to be paid by 30 June, he promised mistress to be free by 1 July. He was on the clock. Had to do the ‘job’, have body hidden long enough to decompose such as to make COD difficult, but have it ‘surface’ soon enough so he can get his hands on the $$ before 30 June. All worked out beforehand – pre-meditated.

    Motive: From my perspective primarily MONEY and GREED.

    Firstly to settle his $million debt, a big chunk of which was due for payment on 30 June. Secondly to be able to freely womanise to his heart’s content, shack up with his well to do mistress for as long as it takes him to bleed her dry (probably do her in too at a later stage and get her money as well). He clearly wanted out of his marriage, he did not want to have to share any part of what they possessed or future earnings with Allison. Did not want her to show him up to be the cad that she discovered he really is, he wanted her to disappear quietly and for all his dark secrets to remain hidden. Bad decision – they certainly aren’t any more now!

    Susan (8:02pm, July 1) I am gob-smacked by the article you found about NBC being the “financial director of Century 21’s most successful Brisbane office”!!! NOT !!! GBC should probably have sacked NBC a few years ago, because under his ‘financial directorship’ this ship has well and truly sunk – completely under the water funnel & all. So much for NBC’s financial genius.

    I fear NBC’s involvement in GBC’s personal life in terms of marriage enhancer and possibly also his knowledge as ‘big game hunter’ may have caused GBC to go down a completely wrong path on April 19/20.

    I don’t have a good feeling about NBC…. I wonder to what extent he planted ideas in GBC’s head and motivated him to execute ruthless plans to improve the financial fortune of the entwined BC families and business. He seemed far to ‘joyful’ to my liking (pashing display) after Allison went missing, and looked more bemused than sad to me at Allison’s funeral. Something just does not feel right here…. I wonder how much of what happened was skillfully manipulated by Bwana…..

    I wonder if GBC did not get so entangled in (if not dependant on by the looks of it) NBC’s financial and personal ‘Bwanaship’, if things would not have worked out better…. unfortunately we can not turn back the clock….

    Susan (7:28am this morning), the BC’s are NOT from South Africa. Rhodesia is not South Africa. XD (8:28am) I respectfully disagree with you regarding all white South African people have arrogant/superior attitudes! I know a fair few and they are all exceptionally nice folk. You must have had very bad luck in meeting whomever you have. Re racist pasts – Australia does not exactly have a squeaky clean image either, so I agree with Sasha (2:15pm) if one lives in a glass house, don’t throw stones…. Please let’s leave racism out of this. And can we please just get a geographical fact straight too – Zambia and Rhodesia are NOT South Africa, just like NZ and Indonesia are not Australia.

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  28. yeah RIP …GBC the root of all evil…you bet ya..thats why little Gerbil is too scared to TALK …. CONTROL FREAK NBC-POP SKULL – AND NO DOUBT SUPER NASTY PIECE OF WORK! .. HIS PLAN U BET YA AND QPS KNOW IT!

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  29. AGREED RIP “And can we please just get a geographical fact straight too – Zambia and Rhodesia are NOT South Africa, just like NZ and Indonesia are not Australia” bUT you forgot Timor- probably OUR biggest THEFT of OIL/GAS RESOURCE in Conjunction with SUHARTO !
    BUT HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BE RAPAID TO TIMOR WITH INTEREST !
    tHE b-C’S tHROWBACKS! AT BEST

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  30. The one thing that resonates about Gerb’s character (or lack of it), is that he had his wife’s 44th birthday as his deadline for leaving her and shacking up with TMH. It just beggars belief. Who does this?

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  31. Mrs Muddle, I think itsuspect the birthday was coincidental – the due date for many of his debts being June 30 was likely the main driver. So if all happened as planned, he’d be free from his debts and his marriage on 1 July. Cold, calculating, callous!

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  32. RIP I totally get what you are saying, and understand the significance of EOFY for him and his debts, but on her birthday?? Her birthday??? The woman who he has betrayed, over and over and over again. The woman he built a life a with, the mother of his three beautiful daughters. The woman who had stood by him, despite all his shortcomings. Her birthday? I just cannot believe he would wait for the most happy, significant day in her life, to destroy it. It takes a certain type of person to do this, I just have no words. It makes me so very sad :(

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  33. I agree, it is callous beyond imagination!
    I do believe he planned to kill her not just leave her, so she would by his thinking not have known that he was with TMcH on her birthday…..really cruel though, and showing no empathy towards his kids and Allison’s family either. It was as if everything centered around him and his wants, and to blazes with everyone else…really difficult to get one’s head around…

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  34. You’ve got that right. I wonder how the little sweethearts are coping. I think about them pretty much every day. Grief is a real roller coaster. You can have a few good days, and you think you are through the worst of it, then BAM! You smell their perfume on someone else, you read your favourite story, you see a photograph, hear a song that reminds you of a memory with them, then its all over, back to square one again. These girls must be totally broken. Does anyone in here know the Dickies? I really hope those babies are ok. Its just so hard to imagine being that young and losing both your parents. How very devastating. If you scum bags are reading this, I hope you’re really pleased with yourselves. Not just to GBC for what you’ve done, but also to your disgraceful disgusting excuse for parents, for what you have done to your own grand children. You’ve done NOTHING whatsoever to help them, all you’ve done is take the p!ss out of their mother and her memory. You disgust me, I hope the lot of you rot in hell!

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  35. XD 7.00 pm
    The pedafile link was discussed on this site quite some time back.
    ‘Twas regarding Baden Powell.
    And would justify your sentiments on scouts, and church.
    Serious historical revelations of a previous Baden Clay Powell family murderer, pedaphile and “high flyer” who became famous.
    Some pretty serious implications revealed here.

    Lord Horatio Herbert Kitchener – Greg Hallett and Spymaster
    http://www.greghallett.com/…/STALIN‘S%20BRITISH%20TRAINING-%2

    There, you will find the story of Lord Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell of Gilwell

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  36. Hi all. I am pretty sure that TM gave him the deadline, and I am sure she would have known it was her birthday, no coincidence. She probably hated Allison because they were still living in the same house.What a lovely lady she is!!! TM and GBC deserve each other I am sure. He would just be using her as he uses everyone, I am sure TM can see this now!. (with the affairs)Robbo surely that is not true that he sent you a text!! What an arrogant , sneaky, creepy freak. Surely he would not be allowed to have a mobile phone in prison! Would he, is it a hoax? What a beep(as we are not allowed to swear) if that is true! Still feel that TM has more involvement as well as NBC as accessory and rest of family knowing of-course. I hope the truth comes to light.

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  37. Perhaps the deadline of debts to pay was 30 June was because it was the end of the financial tax year.

    I think Love Gx just wanted out from Allison- it sounds like she was the one trying to work out the relationship, and he didn’t want to.
    He probably would have wanted a divorce, but was too financially strapped and tight to want to support Allison and the children. I mean the house alone to rent was $450 pw- how is a single mother going to pay that without a lot of money from G.

    I don’t think he particularly wanted to have to kill her, but it seemed to solve every problem he had.

    1. Life insurance to clear up his debts
    2. To be free to establish new relationship (s) with other women, including Toni, but not exclusive to her (unknown to Toni).
    3. To avoid messy divorce to Allison , and then ongoing financial support to her.
    4. A grieving widower family man looks so much better in the eyes of the community and church, than a divorced sleazebag who screwed around. Might tarnish his wholesome imagine.

    In my eyes it was totally premeditated, the problem being he was just such a dumb arse and never even tried to accomplish his task properly.

    In the photo’s of the car which was almost new you can see what seems to be enormous drip marks of blood- I mean how could you be so dumb and arrogant to throw toys in to hide it, but not to try to remove it?

    The lies over the phone fiasco to daddynige, and the continual refusal to talk- what was he calling daddy for in the middle of the night? To tell daddy he had a nightmare and needed his teddy?
    Unbelievable.

    I wonder if Toni has madeany lovesick visits to Gx to declare her ongoing love and support?

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  38. I am taking the liberty of beating Angelkim to the first RANT for the day …

    I agree pre meditated … Disagree with the view he did not want to have to kill her.

    I think his main motive was “I WANT TO KILL MY WIFE” …

    I can imagine his excitement when it dawned on him all the financial fringe benefits this would bring as well as being able to prance around with his tool fully out of its shed…

    Allison and his kids represent all of his failings in his life to date. A wonderful attractive successful woman gave up all her assets, her career, her independence to make a happy family life and support her husband. He completely failed as a husband in terms of not respecting nor appreciating the wonderful support she had made available to him… In fact he appears to have used her as the whipping post (literally) for his own pathetic shortcomings. He has completely failed as a father in being unable to provide a secure stable and loving environment for his kids…. These facts remain no matter what eventuates in court…

    So one can assume those putting forth financial assistance to him and his family embrace and espouse the above values. Their backgrounds need to be closely investigated as they obviously condone murder, domestic violence, financial leeching, lies…

    Throw away the key until he realises people are not objects to be sucked dry and then exterminated. If he never realises this then never let him out …

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  39. Hi Sad or Allison
    Just looking at your 8.20pm Lounge room post regarding the drug Stilnox
    Would be a bit of a worry if his Legal team were intending to use this in GBC’s defense.
    I personally can’t see how use of Stilnox would excuse all the rest of his abnormal behaviour over a very long time. Including right up to his arrest.
    But I am not a Lawyer or Judge
    And a Court of Law isn’t necessarily a Court of Justice

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  40. Hi angelkim
    tHROWBACKS you are so spot on with that! check out the eyes and nose of one family member, might explain the move to OZ in 1980 over South Africa at that time.
    Just a thought ?

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  41. XD – July 4, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    So they are prescription medication then?

    If so, the Stillnox argument becomes even harder to sustain for GBC (If it was ever an option to begin with)… After all, it’s not as easy as just saying the pill made me do it.

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  42. This has probably been mentioned before, but I have read quite a few posts talking about there being no obvious cause or sign of death in regards to Allisons body. I read today that ‘A source close to the case has told the Herald Mrs Baden-Clay’s body was quite badly decomposed, making a cause of death difficult to pinpoint.’

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  43. Why would GBC need Stilnox – he said himself he is a very deep sleeper, when questioned about his activities between 10pm and 6am?

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  44. RIP Allison, i think Love Chunks Gx is a heavy sleeper because he must be so tired having to juggle and perform for 4 different women…

    Still don’t understand what any of those women saw in that slimeball.

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  45. @ Yoshi, yes Stillnox is a prescribed medication, it is also controlled in that it can only be prescribed in monthly amounts, therefore you have to return to your GP to obtain further prescriptions.

    @ Debbie, the decomposition of Allison’s body would certainly make the task of finding the cause of death very difficult. It appears she was subjected to floodwaters, so a lot of damage would have been done to her body, along with exposure to the elements . . . . Unfortunately that has resulted in a hugely circumstantial case against GBC’S, as opposed to a different method of murder whereby there is an obvious cause of death, and, generally, DNA on the body or crime scene which identifies the offender.

    At the end of the day the jury, or the Judge . . . .if GBC elects to have his trial heard before a Judge only . . . Must be convinced that there is sufficient evidence, be it circumstantial or direct evidence, to prove the accused guilty as charged. IMO there is more than enough to do this in this case, and the QPS are still conducting their investigation, which I hope leads to the charging of others.

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  46. The fundamental problem with Love Gx being innocent until proven gulity, is the total absence of any other suspect. The police are not continuing to look for the killer or killers, there is no ongoing investigation to continue to search.

    They have found their killer. As approx 80% of victims are known to their murderer, then it’s fairly odd’s on it’s Love Gx (with or without help).

    Its not like to Queensland Police are warning everyone to be on the lookout for a maniacal killer on the loose.I think the police are holding back on evidence to the public so it doesn’t jeopardise his trial and force his release.

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  47. @ Debbie 7.21pm

    I appreciate the problem of decomposition ‘making a cause of death difficult to pinpoint’, but have never been able to understand how the police could declare that they knew ‘immediately’ she was murdered. It doesn’t make a great deal of sense, don’t you think? It’s always baffled me.

    But clearly, (hopefully!!) they’re aware of a lot more than what they’re letting on.

    At the risk of appearing morbid, I’d love!!! to know the COD. Perhaps we’ll find out….one day.

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  48. He Murder his wife, he should be found guilty if our justice system works correctly..Stick to the facts and don’t over think every think, this man showed no emotion from the start, his body language spoke for it self.. Maybe all the clues left behind, made the police believe she had been murdered and washed up on a creek bank.. the COD will come out..I’m sure.

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  49. DeeleyM at 11:09 pm –Correct a few of the newer posters.. seem to be missing commonly publicized media articles such as “the police declared that they knew ‘immediately’ she was murdered” so its either Airway obstruction/ Severe Bruising to neck/ or worst of all, and IMO the most likely- due to the amount of blood in the car- cuts that bled profusely. Its a heinous/cold blooded crime and those involved must all be locked away for Good- not even animals!

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  50. @Deeley 11:09pm

    Like you, I was a little bit stumped when the police declared they knew immediatley Allison was murdered upon discovering her body, considering she was in some state of decomposition. Do you think it might have something to do with how she was dressed? Assuming the person who murdered her was full of adrenalin, many mistakes could have been made. Maybe part of her clothing was inside out or back to front, or her socks mismatched. This would not be something that a meticulous woman would do when getting dressed. There may have been patches of hair missing, or fingernails broken, alerting them to the fact that there had been a struggle. If duct tape was used and then removed after the disposal of Allison, maybe remnants were left behind on her clothing. I did read a while back that the QPS knew from early in the search that she had met with foul play, so something simple could have confirmed their suspicions.

    The motive for this crime was quite obviously money to clear existing debts. Considering the evidence regarding his main affair, and the $290 k he owed to her, I am wondering if there was a plan to marry her just to wipe this debt. The drawing of the mistress’s house that was found in Allison’s diary (drawn by her husband) may have been found by Allison at some stage and glued in to her diary. Was this something he fantasised about owning one day? There are plenty of people who marry for the sole intent of gaining wealth.

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  51. Hi 2BlackKettles, I agree with you re her clothes may have been inside out or back the front. I actually made this point some time ago as the QPS said when they found her body that it was a murder and they believed A knew her killer. The motive was obviously ‘greed’ and ‘money’…you say “There are plenty of people who marry for the sole intent of gaining wealth….so true !!! there are also plenty who murder for the sole intent of gaining wealth.

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  52. DeeleyM says:
    July 4, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    Hi DeeleyM, Yes I think one day we will all learn how Allison died…myself, I believe asphyxiation.

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  53. This whole case stinks to the high Heavens. There are so many little pieces of circumstancial evidence which by themselves do not amount to much, but when put together paints a very compelling picture of Gerard’s guilt.

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  54. When the news first broke out about Allison’s disappearance, I knew something was a bit off. That was at the stage when they had not found her body and they did not know she was murdered. At that early stage, Gerard refused to provide a statement to the police and hired a lawyer to speak on his behalf to the media. It seemed a little suss for someone who claimed to be “innocent” to go through all of those elaborate measures. Gerard was in defensive mode already. His physical manifestations of sadness and worry were due to his own guilt and criminal culpability rather than his worry over the disappearance of his wife.

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  55. Well I hope Gerbil is reading about the Sica case in his cramped little cell because they said “the crowns strong mostly circumstanial case was sufficient enough for the jury to find him guility!! My brother an ex detective said he believed the case was strong and that the QPS are probably holding evidence back from the general public. He also believes NBC is involved as well.

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  56. Asked about police claims in court documents that he had not fully co-operated, he said: “We don’t know what the police are saying because we don’t read the papers.” Yeah right Nige, you don’t read the papers about you son being charged with murder! what a load of bullsh@t – couldn’t lie straight in bed that whole family.

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  57. I wonder how the Gerard’s parents and sister are coming up with the money for his top notch legal defence. For a family that rents the properties that they live in and don’t have a cent to their name, their legal team seems to befit that of a Hollywood celebrity. Gerard is going to become a celebrity of sorts when he achieves infamy – for being a convicted murderer.

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    • Tan, someone looked up the elder B-C’s house recently and apparently they bought it in 1997? It was GBC’s house that was a rental. But I agree about the finding money for legal help. Maybe they inherited some somewhere along the line. I think GBC owed his parents something like $56,000.

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  58. @Cujo:

    I agree with you. There is something not quite right with the Baden-Clay family. Something that I just can’t put my finger on.

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  59. @Angelkim 11.01AM
    @2Blackkettles 11.08am
    @Judy 11.55am

    Thanks for your thoughts; it’s apparent that many people query this entire scenario.

    Angelkim, has that blood actually been identified as Allisons? I get confused between rumour, gossip, and fact, of late. It’s her blood, is it? Where do you think it came from? And there was supposedly ‘no trauma to the body’…a chipped tooth! (A ‘chipped tooth’ can’t bleed THAT much, can it, hey?!) What’s going on??

    2BK, I agree – the motive is def money (how callous – I know that people kill to swipe a pair of sneakers from your feet these days, but to kill your own wife for a miserable $1 million! YOUR OWN WIFE! with whom you’ve had 3 children. Big money, I can understand, – but $1 million! – In the business world is peanuts! He must have been really desperate to get together with ol’ Tone, as well as completely mentally damaged. The BCs are very very disturbed people, if you ask me – Sis Skull included – VERY DISTURBED.

    Judy, I tend to agree(ish). I think she may have been strangled with rope/cord/or a scarf. And the tightened rope had been left around her neck. Something obvious like that – what else could be so evident on a decomposed body? Thoughts? Is simple (hands around the neck) strangulation obvious on a decomposing body? I don’t know. And where did the blood in the car come from?? Back to the ‘chipped tooth’??

    I tell ya, this case is really doing my head in. I’m getting all my info mixed up; I’m stressing.

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  60. It all comes to values…This whole family doesn’t seem to have any family values at all, no respect for the human life, no respect for the memories of the loved dead people, no compassion, no solidarity, no feelings for other people’s suffering than just of themselves. Like everything that goes up up up to heaven (with no solid foundation), the BC’s reputation will drop dramatically down and will be laying on the ground for longer than what they are thinking….

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  61. DeeleyM_July5 – 4.34pm. Yep it did my head in until they locked up Gerbil the Jerk and the marveloous mrsmuddles did her stealth reconaissance into the bail hearing. There are a lot of great people here on Robbo’s site wanting answers, and QPS are onto this family… QPS giving them just enough rope to hang themselves. Don’t stress as many of us have been here since the start and there is a lot of info to absorb- much speculation and the few facts we have gleaned from the media/bail hearing- He’s BBQ’d as guilty as! He’s behing bars and a few faily members are about to join him-no doubt. Look at Max SICKA …. mostly circumstantial evidence and 1 key forensics if I understand correctly- 35years. Gerbil and Family may top that- such has their callousness and deceipt enraged the Queensland Community. JMO! ;-) .

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  62. As to motive, I don’t think he did it because he wanted to avoid the divorce and property settlement in themselves.

    I am a family lawyer. Whilst I know next to nothing about criminal law, I do know quite a bit about property settlement. It appears that Gerard was heavily in debt to the tune of $1 million and had no other assets to his name. Assets and liabilities both belong in the pool of marital property when it comes to property settlement. In Gerard’s case, the liabilities would appear to exceed the assets, to the extent that the net pool would be in decifit. There is nothing for Allison to get in a property settlement because there is…NOTHING. Furthermore, regardless of whether Allison would have had a claim for spousal maintenance, Gerard’s financial situation would mean that he would be unable to provide such. To put it simply and ineloquently, you can’t get blood of out a stone.

    Putting those issues aside, if you all suggested to me that his motive was purely an intention to avoid the social embarrassment of a divorce, then that could be a reason. In this context, financial motivations are not relevant.

    However, financial motivations are highly relevant in that Gerard may have wanted to financially benefit from the payout of his wife’s life insurance policy as a means to uplift himself out of his dire financial straits.

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  63. Tan, hi, I believe spousal maintenance is not something seen often in this country?
    However as one who has both paid and received maintenance for children, I don’t think he would be precluded from paying this, even with his dire circumstances whilst he still had a business.

    Only one or so of those loans was payable to a banking facility, so his legal obligation (rather than moral) to repay wasn’t so bad. And even then, the child support agency doesn’t care too much about your liabilities anyway. The child support agency even makes mums and dads on social security pay up so i imagine, would Love G. They had a share portfolio, maybe other things too. Sometimes it’s better not to have an asset like a house to lose if your business goes belly-up.

    I think he just wanted out of being with Allison, and was over the relationship emotionally years ago, but she loved him and really wanted to work things out.

    I can’t imagine the embarrassment G is feeling now, it pales into insignificance compared to a divorce.

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  64. sure is something very wrong in this country…
    1..we don’t have enough mental hospitals to house the mentally insane
    2..we don’t have enough jails to house criminals
    3..if you are really so bored look up the phone book under P for Phsychiatrist as I am sure they could help you more than we can

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  65. Hullo Olivia W
    Are you aware that the sister of GBC is named Olivia W and she is also married to a Paster
    Are you trying to be funny or something?

    Freemasonary in Australia immediately draws flashing red lights to general public.

    Regarding sacrifices, It is Allison Dickie Baden Clay who has sacrificed. A dreadful sacrifice.
    Subsequently her three beautiful children have sacrificed their mother.
    And some deadbeat murdering Ass H**** thinks he is ABOVE the Law of the Land.

    Regarding Christianity, would you like me to explain some? Starts in Gods Word, The Bible.
    Believe it or not, it is quite simple. Don’t believe those who try and make you believe you need an interpreter to understand same.

    Olivia W This is a terrible crime. Make no mistake about that.
    If in fact you are genuine, then I am sure you could express yourself here on this site.
    And possibly expect a fair hearing.
    I, for one would be interested in your point of view.
    Reply please.

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  66. @ QCL
    I think this particular Olivia W is pulling your leg.

    Regarding this person’s post about the BC’s and Christianity – anyone can ‘go to church’, anyone can call themselves a ‘Christian’. It is meaningless if you don’t live your life according to the good book. Absolutely meaningless. They, of all people, know that NOTHING they do is hidden.

    So I watch their behaviour with interest.

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  67. Good stuff Olivia W. … Appreciate the humour …
    Unfortunately too many in the local community know the truth ..

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  68. Holleyhell batman where are you now, missmarples,doc watson everybody i have been reading since about day4 of allisons disappearance. have we got a fair dinkum looney or have we drawn a cat out to play there must be a clan in here who are really sic of the truth have they finally cracked

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  69. Olivia W (4:15pm & 4:24pm), I’m not sure if you really are who you claim to be, but consider this – neither God nor the general population condones husbands having multiple affairs and callously killing their wives and disposing of them like trash to get rid of them as well as cashing in on their life insurance.

    ‘Good works’ neither earn eternal life, nor cancel crimes. They are not ‘good works’ if anything is expected in return.

    Friendliness is a Christian trait – walking around with a scowl on one’s face not. Allison lived and exhibited Christian traits and values. Criticising Allison for being friendly and well liked smells of envy – another non-Christian trait. Insinuating whatever else you are about her is plain disgusting.

    If this is a hoax it is a sick one.

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  70. RIP
    I am so distraught by nsw’s loss (blind referees) and that in my previous post I did not include your very intelligent self who has provided myself and many others an insight into the narcissistic ersonal nightmare that allison must have been subjected to. You and many others have provided me and many other (early and continual readers,posters)with a huge amount of insightful,intelligent,honest and up to date posts I thankyo
    And I still agree with very early info that up to five people may be arrested. well anyway lets all hope so because it is so simply true i rest my case

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  71. fawlty towers @ July 6, 2012 at 6:54 pm
    Holy! You just said exactly what I was thinking.
    Is this a true looney or OW???

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  72. Surly Olivia W is a troll??? The first post reference to “Did I mention that I am married to a pastor?” suggested to me it was someone having a lend… Dunno, the wording just doesn’t seem right… If they return and say something meaningful in GBC’s defence then I’ll happily listen, but in the meantime, my BS radar is going “ping, ping, ping”

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  73. Olivia W
    Please speak up.
    I am listening Please do not be afraid.
    All information will be be treated in strictest confidence
    SPEAK But no fibs. OK?

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  74. I believe Olivia W said she was pure on her wedding night…I can’t get onto FB at the moment but I’m pretty sure she was only married in 08 or 09…long time to stay pure. She’s certainly no spring chicken!!

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  75. That post from an OW is not only strange it is frightening. A woman was murdered, her husband is the accused for whatever reason we are yet to fully understand and have confirmed, and someone like OW attempts to justify their actions by stooping to the level of a sewer rat in the name of Christianity. I am speechless, I hope for the sake of all concerned that this is a hoax. What I find unbelievably repetitious and predictable is that when people who have done something very wrong are cornered they suddenly make all sorts of claims of doing good for humanity in the name of Christianity. Sad very very sad indeed. If someone like that claims to be a Christian then I’m Jesus.

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  76. This just might be Olivia W
    Just think for one moment
    If Olivia W was genuinely ‘on the level”
    And her family including her parents were the ones who forced her to behave as she has behaved
    And her name and the names of her children were publicly debunked
    And her entire family name has been pubicly debunked
    And her entire future was cactus
    Might she or might she not come to an impartial forum such as this and put her case?
    Considering not her immediate fututre
    But genuinely
    Considering her eternal future…………..

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  77. Bugger…just got on there & the date has been changed to 1969! I remember thinking at the time they hadn’t been married long. It was no more than 6 yrs! The other thing I noticed is she’s changed hers so you can’t read much but his seems almost like he’s (Pasta) telling everyone to get ……!
    Did we know he worked at Flight Centre? (sorry if I’m a bit slow) He has also put up family!! He now has her on there as his wife & GBC as his brother-in-law…loud & proud!

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  78. Will the real Olivia Walton please stand up?

    Someone is having a bit of bad taste fun.
    I seriously doubt OW would comment online, knowing it leaves a ‘footprint’.

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  79. Hi Susan:

    Spousal maintenance cases in Australia are decided upon the concept of the applicant’s need for it which is balanced or assessed against the respondent’s capacity to pay.

    I understand that Gerard’s real estate agency was in dire financial straits. His income would have been derived from that business. No Court can make an Order that is not enforceable.

    Furthermore, child support can only be granted where there is a source for payment. If a man is not working or has an extremely low income, a child support application will not be successful.

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  80. Queensland Country Lady says:
    July 6, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    As much as I think they have been a disgrace I don’t think she would come on & say she never liked Allison & all that other stuff. She would be hauled over the coals for that.
    I don’t think she would be that stupid. IF she came on here she certainly wouldn’t use her own name. Looks too immature to me.

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  81. Agree that it isn’t Olivia. Don’t Olivia would get on here in the first place nor make the comments made on that post.

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  82. @Kenmore mum – Without completely discounting the possibility, I can’t see OW making any future public comment about the case that hasn’t been vetted by GBC’s legal team first. They would surely have briefed the family about that kind of stuff. I agree that such comments don’t help GBC at the end of the day. A momentary lapse??? Maybe, but as you say, I would think it more likely that if a member of GBC’s family were wanting to refute the comments being made online then they would not use their real name.

    That said, I for one would be more than happy to have a civil conversation with any GBC supporters out there, family or otherwise to throw around an alternative point of view.

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  83. I totally agree with those posters who doubt that the poster “Olivia W” is the real one.

    Since the disappearance of Allison, it seems that the entire Baden-Clay family have been in defensive mode, saying and revealing as little as possible to the police and the media. They have gone to the trouble and expense of hiring a team of high profile lawyers to wipe their noses, filter their words and shield Gerard in every way possible.

    Such meticulous legal strategy could not be unravelled by one of them going onto a message board such as this and saying anything to hinder Gerard’s defence. Digital footprints have a way of never disappearing.

    If the “Olivia W” identity is merely a troll, then it is in bad taste.

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  84. Dont mind me folks
    Just one ole humble Queensland Country Lady here
    Grasping straws
    Maybe, maybe not……….

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  85. Is there only half a dozen or so posts in this Motive thread? Or is my view just skewed?

    Also, where are these posts from an individual claiming to be OW? I can’t see any, has Robbo deleted them? I could really do with a laugh, and they’re just the ticket I think!

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  86. OK, I am very skeptical about OW coming here and venting.
    Other than that, this sick person posing as Olivia, has not returne?. A coward, a fake.

    To dear Allison, if your sister-in-law could in any means come onto this site and says things about you like that!
    If so:
    1. Olivia needs to be an accessory to murder, and sitting with bro
    2. The Olivia impersonator needs to front up and ‘fess

    Which is it

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  87. Don’t mind me. I just thought I’d drop in but I’m “taking the fifth” if thats okay by everyone :)

    I was going to stay the heck out of here but bugger it, 1 in, all in.

    Hello Olivia. So nice of you to pay us your respects. Shame you and your family didn’t do it at Allisons funeral!

    Next time you go to church, ask the lord to forgive you and your family for all sins!

    I’m now going to finish my nip of Scotch :)

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