Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on OPPORTUNITY?


Murder shall be taken to have been committed where the act of the accused, or thing by him or her omitted to be done, causing the death charged, was done or omitted with reckless indifference to human life, or with intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon some person, or done in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission, by the accused, or some accomplice with him or her, of a crime…

This high profile case has captured the imagination of everybody it seems. From the day Allison went missing,  the suspicious behaviour of her husband, to the search, The discovery of her body, The funeral, The investigation, The media, and Arrest which came from nowhere and then the Bail application, the Bomb Threat, then Bail was denied and now GBC is on remand in Jail

So here we are many months later and what do we have. We obviously have a highly circumstantial case of Murder against Gerard Baden-Clay at the moment.

I think any ONE aspect taken in isolation could be seen to be suspicious.

But as one links all the pieces together they start to paint a much bigger picture.

Means, Motive, and Opportunity is a popular cultural summation of the three aspects of a crime needed to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant had to commit the crime (motive), and whether or not the defendant had the chance to commit the crime (opportunity). Opportunity is most often disproved by use of an alibi, which can prove the accused was not able to commit the crime as he or she did not have the correct set of circumstances to commit the crime. Ironically, motive is not an element of many crimes, but proving motive can often make it easier to convince a jury of the elements that must be proved for a conviction. Furthermore, a showing of the presence of these three elements is not, in and of itself, sufficient to convict beyond a reasonable doubt; the evidence must prove that an opportunity presented was indeed taken by the accused and for the crime with which he or she is charged.

Motive, that being the massive financial debt, the affairs and the promise to leave his wife to his mistress, Toni McHugh.

Opportunity, did Gerard have the opportunity to murder his wife. Could of someone else done it? Was he helped in anyway?

Means, if he did murder her, How did he go about it. How was she killed?, where was she killed?, When did it happen?, Where was she taken? The list goes on.

The pieces of clues to this puzzle are significant and reach wide. We are going to have a go at documenting them right here folks UNDER THE FOLLOWING HEADINGS

OPPORTUNITY

Did Gerard have the opportunity to murder his wife? Could of someone else done it? Was he/she  helped in anyway?

PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD TO THIS SUBJECT ONLY

I will use my discretion and delete irrelevant comments

MOTIVE thread

OPPORTUNITY thread

MEANS thread


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135 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay-How does the Puzzle look on OPPORTUNITY?

  1. I don’t believe he’d planned to murder Allison that particular night. I do however believe he did intend “doing away with her” for the obvious financial gain, not to mention clearing the way to enable him to live happily ever after with one Toni McHugh.
    What I think happened is they had a huge argument that night possibly about the real estate conference the next day and the attendance of Toni McHugh at said conference. IMO one of three things may have taken place to open up the opportunity to take his wife’s life.
    1. During the argument he or Allison became physical, lashing out. It got out of control and he ended up killing her. Not without a fight though, Allison manages to scratch his smarmy face.
    She falls and chips her tooth.
    2. After the argument, Allison decides to take a bath and that’s where he perhaps slits her throat and or drowns her. During the struggle, she scratches his face and chips her tooth.
    3. He waits until she’s asleep and smothers her. This however, wouldn’t account for the blood that was found in the vehicle. Upon Allison waking however, she could have managed to scratch his face and in the process, he could have chipped her tooth.

    I don’t like to dwell on rumors that he cut off Allison’s fingers, but, I wouldn’t put it past him to do so in an attempt to conceal evidence, just in case Allison’s body was discovered earlier than it was.

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  2. Think back to the bail hearing….

    Why would the DPP reveal a chipped tooth ? What are they saying ? Something that involves the mouth cavity ? And where was that tooth ?

    We don’t know the cause of death but this specific injury, I think, is meant to be a clue in itself, from the Big Man and his hard-hitter, Mr Boyle, as to the COD…

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  3. I’m not sure the night Allison was murdered gave him the clean cut opportunity. The kids were at home and would have heard them argue.

    I took a little notice on Sunday on our way to the Showgrounds. The homes are on large blocks of land so neighbours aren’t very close together. Did he use that to his advantage? Its highly likely because he would have been thinking, if she screams, no one will hear her because we don’t have neighbours close by.

    Then there is another scenario. Allison wouldn’t have wanted an argue in front of the kids, even if they were asleep. So they took the argue outside and away from the kids. Both are yelling at each other, he seizes the moment to really let fly but this time physically. Allison screams, some distant neighbours hear it. To shut her up, he goes the next step in a fit of rage and strangles her, then takes her inside and possibly puts her in a bath to wash some of his DNA off her.

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  4. @judge, you make a good point about the tooth, but maybe they had to reveal at least some evidence of foul play. maybe they have found the missing chip??

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  5. the confidence of the police in charging him with tampering with a corpse, it intrigues me to know what evidence they have that this has occured. for them to actually charge him with this they must have some doozy evidence..

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  6. http://aussiecriminals.com.au/the-lounge/

    About time we had a place to make comments in general or off topic don’t you think folks?

    Hopefully it will remove a bit of the trivia we tend to chat about within a thread on certain subjects. Anything goes here, within reason of course, and still NO sledging permitted.

    I will also get a chat widget up and running too for quick little conversations folks can have with each other, without the need for permanent comments. That will be in a few days, I have to move my server over to enable some really cool widgets and features for us to enjoy!

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  7. Yes jo-beth and the plot thickens as to what evidence they have and did they withhold any at the bail hearing?

    A chipped tooth didn’t kill her. He may have slapped her and it chipped then but theres no way she could have choked on a chipped tooth.

    His committal hearing is when more evidence will come to light.

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  8. jo-beth, the simple act of moving a corpse is considered “tampering”. He may not have done anything post mortem other than move her.

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  9. If it was premeditated, there would have been very little evidence left at the scene.

    However, if it wasn’t premeditated, he may have hurridly thrown Allison in the back of the family car in which case, her head would have hit something hard and split open. That could explain the blood in the car.

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  10. @ brissie, yes i realise that, but to charge him with that they must have pretty good evidence. evidence in the way that they can prove she died elsewhere to where she had been found. the blood in the car doesnt neccessarily say that she was dead at the time.

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  11. I think the police have a COD but are waiting on more DNA results to prove he did it. They need to be able to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt, something concrete or the case won’t stand up in court.

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  12. Hi Mrs Scott…actually they do have one lot of neighbours that are reasonably close. That is where the dog was going crazy.. “Scrap”. Their fence backs onto the BC’s. The house across the road from them too isn’t really that far & sound travels.

    Jo-Beth…the interfering with a corpse charge has me too. I read that “most” murderers move the bodies of their victims so why aren’t they all charged with interfering with a corpse? It has to be something else…scary!!

    I was talking to a local yesterday who was friends with them & apparently they were having loads of fights with lots of yelling. So maybe the neighbours were so used to it they just thought it was another one & ignored it. Could be like a boy who cried wolf scenario…heard it numerous times before :/. I also know of a woman (I’m very good friends with her sis in law) who was adamant he didn’t do it. Wouldn’t hear anything else! Well she’s singing a different tune now.

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  13. Hello Kenmore mum

    I didn’t know they had neighbours close by. LOL, I don’t know where the house is in which they resided. I observed from a distance on our way down Brookfield Road.

    So did he kill her inside when the kids were at home?

    I really wish I had a crystal ball or something to work with. There is so little at the moment aside from blood in the car and a scratch on his face.

    Its a really frustrating case. From what I’ve read, Allison was a beautiful, warm and giving human being. She didn’t deserve to be treated like a second class citizen by her own husband.

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  14. jo-beth

    I only worked as a paralegal and I’d prepare things for the Attorney Generals office and would sometimes sit in on interviews with clients.

    In some cases, more evidence must be provided by the prosecution at a committal hearing as the committal hearing determines if the charges stand or if they are dismissed.

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  15. With what I know of the QPS, they’ll be loading him up with every charge they possibly can on this one. And rightfully so!!
    Next is NBC and co….

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  16. hope so Brissiebbella….Jobeth, not real sure what info is brought out at committal hearing, I seem to think they have to give his Legal team all what they have then…however not real sure….anyone know the answer to this?

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  17. I’ve referred back to my books(a bit out of date) and at a committal hearing, the prosecution and defence can call upon witnesses to strengthen a case. It also states that the prosecution can produce evidence but it cannot be the same evidence that was presented at a bail hearing. It must be additional to the existing case.

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  18. judy, I found this article which seems to explain the committal process:

    Committal hearing
    The major purposes of a committal hearing are to attempt to have the charges dismissed by a Magistrate; to discover all of the evidence against you; and to find out further details surrounding the case so that you can prepare for your trial.

    The Nature of the Hearing

    Generally, you will be only permitted to cross examine witnesses about certain issues that have been told to the court. A committal hearing is not a full rehersal of the trial and is likely to last only a fraction of the time.

    The Police Case

    A solicitor employed by the DPP will appear for the Police. They will call the witnesses that are required to give evidence. When the witnesses first give evidence, they are giving “evidence in chief”. Your solicitor may object to questions asked by the DPP solicitor in certain circumstances.

    After the DPP solicitor has finished asking the witness questions your solicitor may cross examine the witness. After your solicitor has finished cross examining the witness the DPP solicitor will be able to clarify any answers in re examination. After all witnesses have given evidence the DPP solicitor will close the Police case.

    The Magistrate Can Dismiss the Charge After the Police Case

    After all the prosecution evidence has been given the Magistrate must decide whether, the prosecution evidence is capable of satisfying a reasonable jury, properly instructed, beyond reasonable doubt that you have committed an indictable offence. If the Magistrate does not believe the evidence would satisfy a jury, the Magistrate will dismiss the charges. If the Magistrate believes the evidence would satisfy a jury the hearing continues.

    Warning before you give evidence A magistrate must give you a warning and an oppurtunity to answer the charge. The Magistrate will give you a warning that you do not have to give evidence and any evidence you give may be used against you at your trial.
    The Defence Case

    It is very rare for an accused to give evidence or call witnesses at a committal hearing. If you decide to give evidence or call a witness to give evidence, then the DPP solicitor may question you or your witness about any issue relevant to your case. They are not restricted in what they can cross examine you about. Unless you are very confident that the Magistrate will dismiss the charge against you there is very little to gain from giving evidence. At your trial the crown would look at what you said at the committal hearing and plan their cross examination of you.

    The Magistrate Can Dismiss the Charge After the Defence Case

    After all the evidence is given the Magistrate must decide whether or not there is a reasonable prospect that a reasonable jury, properly instructed, would convict you of an indictable offence. If the Magistrate does not believe the evidence would satisfy a jury, the Magistrate will dismiss the charges. If the Magistrate believes the evidence would satisfy a jury, the Magistrate will commit you to the District Court for trial.

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  19. thanks Brissiebella, very interesting reading. I kinda thought they had to hand over all the evidence they had. Would so love to be at the court 9th July….not sure we’re in the right thread here, I’m getting confused with the threads LOL

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  20. The committal process has recently been overhauled by the attorney-Generals office – the Moynihan report sought to streamline the comm. process – it has resulted in a slight disadvantage to the defense counsel who can no longer cross-examine Crown witnesses as of right – they used to soften up prosecution witnesses and fish for weaknesses in the crown case that could be further exploited at trial – now counsel needs to ask permission to cross-examine witnesses and stipulate what part of the witness statement they want to cross on – ie. no more fishing expedition by sleazy defense barristers who must show cause why a witness should be cros examined.

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  21. asha

    Committal hearing on the 9th which is Monday week. Hopefully no more bomb hoaxes.

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  22. I believe the 9 July date is for “committal mention” and not the actual “committal hearing”. I may be wrong, but there is no way that either party will be in a position to go ahead this quickly with an actual committal hearing. There are actual time frames for the DPP to hand-over evidence to the defence before a committal hearing. They will not have had a time to do that yet.

    The normal process is for a committal mention date to be scheduled which is just a brief appearance before a Magistrate to set out a time-frame for the eventual committal hearing (i.e. provision of evidence by the Prosecution, specific requests for evidence from the Defence of the Prosecution, other legal argument etc). There can be multiple mention dates as well. I would be very surprised if the actual committal hearing is held within the next 3-4 months. I would think it possibly will be later this year or early next (depending on the amount of evidence and status of investigations).

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  23. Kenmore Mum and Mrs Scott –

    I still think the ‘Interfering with a corpse’ is because Gerbil removed her rings when he dumped her. They were probably quite valuable. I also think this is where the exaggerated ‘hands being removed’ rumor came from, I don’t believe they were.

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  24. Interfering with a corpse, hope this helps. Just did some googling. The charge against the defendant is that he improperly interfered with a human
    corpse, namely that of (insert name of deceased). The principle underlying this
    part of our criminal law is that every civilised society imposes on its members
    an obligation to dispose decently of the dead. In our society the usual means
    are burial or cremation. The obligation falls primarily on family members but it
    extends to other people such as a hotel keeper or landlord of premises in
    which a person dies if there is no family or family can’t be found. The
    obligation to dispose decently of the body means disposing of it intact. This is
    because it is recognised in all civilised societies that an insult or indignity
    inflicted on a dead body is an offence to the living.

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  25. I am beginning to think that the police have stitched up motive but means and opportunity might be proving to be more difficult. I also think that this is especially the case in trying to press charges on any additional party. Anybody in addition didn’t really need the motive part at all.

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  26. Kati

    I don’t think Allisons hands were cut off either. There was a significant amount of blood in the car but that could have come from trauma to the head.

    We know he didn’t care about Allison as he was having so many affairs so did he just “throw” her body into the car as you would throw a bag of rubbish in the bin, Allisons head has hit the wheel thingy and that caused the head trauma and forced the bleeding?

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  27. I DO think the hands were cut off. It explains the blood. Mudering her, dumping her body – severing the hands – all just as bad as each other. He would have – someone with him would have advised him to do this.

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  28. Yoshi says:
    June 29, 2012 at 4:54 pm
    thank you Yoshi for that info…it’s all so confusing

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  29. Thanks for the heads up Yoshi. I also thought having a committal hearing so soon after the bail application hearing sounded unreasonable. Late this year or early next year sounds more like it. I should imagine in this case there would be a mountain of evidence to gather…

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  30. Hi everyone, well of course he had the opportunity, he was the last person to see her. His only alibi was that he slept soundly, which of-course we all know has been discounted with the late night phone call to NBC and the phone being replugged around 2.00 am, the googling on computer and the sightings of the two cars at Kholo Creek. I feel that drowning in the bath is a strong possibility, scratches trying to fight him off. Teeth can be chipped on hard surface like bath easily. She may have had a bath after the arguement,before bed, not to mess up hair possibly. What a monster doing this for money!!,to Allison that stuck by him even with the multiple affairs, she should have left him long ago, she deserved better than this!!. It was premeditated to solve financial problems as evidenced by phone calls to insurance company,(too expensive to divorce) whether planned for that evening not sure. Father involved, sister knows. TM what sort of a woman asks someone to leave his wife and gives the deadline of the birthday of the wife??? Yes I too think he was mentally tormenting her with the drawing of the TM hideous womans house. Who does that!! Callous, Cruel, Shame she did not leave this creep!!! well this strange family really long time ago!

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  31. I think the opportunity for murder arose when the pair were arguing so violently that Allison pulled a knife on Gerard to try to get him to back off. He probably punched her so hard in the face to get the knife off her that her tooth chipped in the process, then he used the knife against her. JMO.

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  32. Yoshi, if that’s the case……. a mention; then I’m tippin’ GBC might break, if he’s guilty. …just a feeling, he’s surrounded by an environment he’s surely not comfortable in and would have to be weighing up his options (if guilty, of course).
    Otherwise, he’s gotta be comin’ up with somethin’ a lot better than caterpillars…..imo

    …….then again, he doesn’t have to come up with anything really….does he?

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  33. Well from what’s been released ATM, the last person to see Allison alive was GBC and it would appear he has no independently verifiable alibi for his whereabouts for 8+ hours between when he says he last saw Allison and when the children got out of bed the following morning. So opportunity is a given from what is known IMO. That doesn’t make one guilty of course, but together with everything else, GBC surely couldn’t be surprised to find himself in his current predicament.

    @millie – I don’t imagine we’ll see a plea/confession before the committal hearing. He will likely wait to see what the evidence is from the DPP first. It’s certainly not unknown to have someone have a guilty conscience and once in jail realise the game’s up and avoid the distress on witnesses giving evidence at trial, but given his steadfast silence to date, I wouldn’t be counting on it. If the weight of evidence suggests he’s going to pushing the proverbial uphill, then he may indicate he will plea to manslaughter, but I doubt the DPP will accept such a deal. If a jury is convinced he’s responsible for Allison’s death, they can sill find him guilty of manslaughter and not murder. So long as Crown think they have that sewn up, then there’s not a lot he has to bargain with I would have thought.

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  34. I don’t understand the concept of the defence layer, is he insane? Client already has a hefty debt where is he going to get the fees? Or GB and PD made deal out of the from the AL’s blood money? For both of them it may be a gamble on a 50 -50 share, one has everything to loose other just has to waist some time.
    PD will never see a valid point in the crown case; he may be maddened by the blood money? PD may be able to better explain the cause of the death of AL than the forensic doctor who has done post-mortem, because his client has confessed to him. I think that is why he is dam sure about the cause of death and there was not a single drop of blood oozed out of the body.
    There is no code of ethics which says to protect thief’s and murders from going to jail because it their clients. But it may say help them to get what they actually deserve. In certain legal code it is a crime to help to hide a criminal. It is applicable to all immaterial of their profession.
    From the way it looks, there are other people who have helped to do the conspiracy and make it a well planned and executed crime. The “face time call” and hiring of two lawyers gives evidence of this plot. The act of confidence and pretending displayed in front of the media and public clearly indicates the external touch.
    This crime seems to have originated from a financially motives rather than any thing else, the plot may unfold if the lenders and beneficiaries of the GB is further interrogated.

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  35. Good Post hello at 10.35. Yes he had opportunity and daddy NBC helped him with trying tpo ‘cover up at least”-maybe NBC even helped in the murder. I agree with your statement “From the way it looks, there are other people who have helped to do the conspiracy and make it a well planned and executed crime – premeditated and murder. and yes The “face time call” and hiring of two lawyers gives evidence of this plot….. don’t forget the killer Caterpilar ;-) ….just saying !

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  36. Very valid Hello- this is what enrages me with NBC, sis skull, (silence), Metered and Payum (P.D) and Forsaken and Baloney…as you said ” it is a crime to help to hide a criminal ” and thats exactly what they are doing at the taxpayer- Queensland Publics expense!

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  37. Well, IMO he had more opportunity than anyone. His house, his wife, his cars, in his own time, his chosen accomplice(s), his motive(s), his text messages, his everything. Great opportunity.

    (He even thought that his cock&bull ‘story’ would exonerate him.)

    Yes, he had the opportunity.

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  38. Yoshi – If he’s guilty, he doesn’t have a lot to bargain with, that’s for sure. I have just been pondering….someone was saying earlier, that he may have acted out of desperation re; huge debt, pressure from mistress etc. If that’s the case, then desperation has to bring some kind of conscience imo. He has certainly been steadfast in his silence to date – just wonder how long he can ‘keep it together’. Not receiving bail would have been a huge sinking feeling for him…..though, he is looking at a long prison term, so maybe he will stick to his guns…I doubt whether he would have any regard for any witnesses, if anything, he would see them as betraying him. I think, if he knows he’s going down, he would be looking at opportunity now for the least amount of prison time….. even though, there may be no getting out of it….he would be trying to get the best possible outcome…..even to the point of being psychologically unstable to stand trial……..is that possible? Obviously, just like this case, my head is all over the shop….:/

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  39. From one woman to another, I would have to say that Allison would have already suspected that Toni was going to the same conference- hence with little or indeed no money Allison went to all the effort to have her hair done for the next day- perhaps as a finger up to Toni when she saw her- Allison being the better beauty of the two. Allison may have even wanted to question Toni re the affair.
    Love Chunks G was frantic of being found out still to be seeing Toni- in fact had even agreed to Toni’s ultimatum. Love G x, knew that 30 June was looming quickly, so had to kill Allison asap in order to receive payout by 30 June.
    I think he used the fact that the children were in the house as an alibi or sorts.

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  40. I’m with you lilli.

    Its more than done mine in. We know that motive was money. I suppose he had plenty of opportunity but means has got me almost beat. Did he have a brain snap and accidently kill her on that night?

    He intended to have Allison out of his life before July 1 and thats been proven however, I don’t think he intended to kill her on that night.

    If you think about it, if he meant too, he wouldn’t have called the police so soon to report her missing. He would have planned it much better. When I say much better, he would have taken as much time as needed to clean up the evidence inside and outside the house and the obvious evidence of blood in the car. He panicked and left himself little time to do anything in the way of concealing the evidence.

    All the research he did on the internet, one would think he’d had planned the killing better. This is why I keep going back to the brain snap. They had an argue over money or lack there of. A verbal dispute erupts and it turns into an ugly slinging match. He can’t handle Allison defending her right to having her hair done for Friday, snaps and accidently kills her. Panics and calls Senior BC in the middle of the night. Tells him about the fight and that he accidently killed Allison. Senior BC also panics so they hurridly put a plan into action to dispose of the corpse. Aside from that, I’m really drawing blanks. I’ve got little petrol left in the tank. My mind is exhausted from this whole ordeal.

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  41. Mrs Scott, I believe you are onto something. Allison knew about the affair – fact. However, they were going to counselling, Gerbs had told her it was over. Perhaps she believed him that it was. I think she had her hair done, fully suspecting she’d see TMH at the conference (but not realising it was still ongoing), to stick it up her of sorts, as if to say “I won”. TMH told Gerbs that she wanted him to tell Allison that she’d be at the conference (hardly rocket science and not anything Allison wouldn’t have already known). But I believe this rattled the living day lights out of him, knowing the pair of them would be there together. He would have been petrified they’d have a confrontation, that Allison would find out he was still getting his d!ck wet if you know what I mean.

    His eftpos card got declined at the supermarket that day (allegedly, I don’t know if this is fact), so no doubt he spat chips when he found out she’d had her hair done. Ordinarily the hair may not have been such a big deal to him, but he would have been on edge and under immense pressure with the conference the next day and what may unfold – he would have been scoring for a fight. I say he intended to kill her all along, just not on that night. I believe there was definitely an argument, he snapped and it happened early. Hence how sloppy the cover up has been. If it was meant to happen that night, he wouldn’t have called padre, everything would have been in order and ready to go.

    The kids being in the house really disturbs me though. With regards to means, because the COD has not been released, she had no external injuries (or so they say), its just too hard to know how he did it. The hands may well have been cut off (if she scratched him so hard), the lungs may well have been full of bath water, who knows. I think there’s more to it that the DPP is yet to reveal. Until that comes out, I don’t think we’ll know for sure. However based on what HAS been released, it looks like suffocation or drowning. I’m not inclined to believe asphyxiation as there’d have been marks around her neck from being strangled.

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  42. MrsMuddle @ 4:11pm –
    I agree with you, he would have been very, very angry looking like a fool at the checkout after being told he had insufficient funds. He was probably trying to chat up the check-out girl as well. That would have been enough to set him off especially when he found out how much Allison’s hair cost. Seething…….and the girls would have witnessed the whole thing..

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  43. mrsmuddle

    I can’t come up with anything else. I’m really starting to grasp as straws here.

    Do we completely rule out TM as an accessory? She is co operating and assisting the police but that doesn’t mean she didn’t play a part in this. Is it possible she has been offered immunity if she co operated?

    I feel he didn’t mean to kill her that night. I can’t shake that feeling off no matter how hard I try. I believe he strangled her and that is why the police knew her COD when first viewing the body.

    Yesterday I suggested he strangled her and then put her in a bath to get rid of some of his DNA. Strangulation doesn’t explain a significant amount of blood in the car though so what else did the rotten sod do to her?

    LOL, getting his dick wet. I get where you’re coming from :)

    I’m really starting to run out of ideas as to how and why?

    Such a senseless killing all because of his stinking hunger for money! Argh! He makes me so cranky.

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  44. Pugville @ 4:37PM –
    No. We were discussing the ‘hands removed’ rumor and I said that I believe he would have removed her rings but not her hands because of the rings value (and it saves him buying a new one for TM). I then said that that’s possibly were the ‘hands removed’ rumor started.
    Nothing surprises me with how low that man would go!

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  45. Not for one minute do I believe that rumour about the hands being cut off. I’ll run with every other theory but not that one.

    Firstly, when did he have the time to do it and what would he have used? It takes a while to cut through bones etc. Its not like he’d plug in a power saw and use that or, start up a chainsaw in the middle of the night. Both those things make too much noise so, how what else could he possibly have done for such a significant amount of blood to be found in the car?

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  46. KatiKutLoose, I really liked your line about chatting up the checkout chick!.

    The disturbing thing about Toni is she doesn’t appear dumb, yet she stuck around with a married man for 4 or 5 years without any real sign of committment. The irony is as Love Gx cheated on his wife with her, didn’t she realise if he could do it to his wife, he could just as easliy, and most likely cheat on her too.
    Maybe he had yet another pseudonym perhaps a “Mike Hunt” to email his other lovers so Bruce Overland could continue to get away with it

    What’s with the appeal of that loser to other women anyway. I bet have the reason they had no money was because he was spending it on his lovers. How dare he have the audacity to complain about Allison getting her hair done, when he spent thousands on hotel rooms for his dick wetting tyrsts.

    I think he was really angry with Allison for keeping on tyring to continue the marriage when he just wanted out.

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  47. Mrs Scott i think it is most likely a nose bleed. I am a nurse and it is incredible the amount of blood that can arise from a simple nose bleed, and it may not show as an injury during an autopsy.

    She was probably unconscious in the car and the slimeball drowned her in the river. A dead weight is very heavy, he would have to have help one imagines.

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  48. Speaking of opportunity im wondering how the hell he had the opportunity when he has 3 daughters so young in the house etc ABC only get home from the hairdressers at 6.30ish then theres dinner tv time homework reading etc – and im just at a loss as to how the night progressed so well for him, where they didnt get up and see any of this happening – afterall children of this age are rarely going to just get into bed and fall instantly asleep without one of them at least waking up to some sort of commotion, loud fighting and miraculously he has the whole night to get on with “it”!! i guess one of my main questions is does anyone know if they can speak to the children as part of evidence building or are they too young?

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  49. Susan

    You could be right about that. I rule almost nothing out with him except the cutting off of hands. That is something he didn’t have time to do. Some will run with that theory but I can’t and won’t. Time was an issue for him and he had to get rid of the corpse as soon as he could.

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  50. Can anyone answer this questions. Have the other mistresses been identified? Could they know something about what might have gone down?

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  51. Susan @ 5:11PM – It’s the type of women men who play up target., I always think of women in that situation as being victims. TM is a very unattractive, middle aged single woman who adored him. Someone here did a very good post on their imagined pillow talk and frankly it was very convincing.

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  52. clueless in capricorn

    The only mistress that has been named is TM. She has given the police statements and is co operating with them. So we have to rule her out, I think we do. LOL, I really don’t know anymore. My heads spinning from thinking!

    beyondintrigued

    How appropriate is your name when it comes to this case? This case has everyone intrigued and we’ve gone to all lengths to sift through what little we have to work with. And lets face it, we have next to nothing to work with. It gets harder as each day goes by.

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  53. Just thinking…..if the murder was premeditated…perhaps it was meant for the Friday evening…..perhaps there was a bigger plot…….still feel something dodgy about the drawings in Allison’s Diary – children sleeping over friends, Allison and Toni having a confrontation at conference……
    Anyways – Thursday evening exposed an unexpected opportunity….if the murder was premeditated, it was a seed just waiting to be hatched by GBC anyways. Perhaps there was an argument and things did get out of hand; with the already premeditation, he couldn’t help himself and carried through with her murder in an anger fuelled moment. Hence a unexpected cover-up…with, thank goodness, some dumb and dumber fails…….hopefully having some kind of karma and justice. Maybe if there was another plan, it may have been covered-up a lot better than this and he may just have got away with it…….just a thought.

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  54. I am inclined to believe that GBC may have some type of mental disorder. The numerous affairs and the huge debt. Why keep borrowing money when you have no hope of paying it back. Why confess your undying love to your mistress when at the same time you are married to someone else plus having two other women on the side. When you count the numbers he was sleeping with 4 women at the same time. Does he have a problem with sexual addiction associated with a mental disorder such as bipolar? What does this comment say about him “Some people felt intimidated by Gerard,” says a close connection to the school. “There was an aura about when Gerard walked into a room.” Was he a control freak? Did he think that killing his wife was a means to an end? Was he delusional enough to assume he would never be considered a suspect in her death? Perhaps there were arguments which intensified when Allison also found out how much debt he was in this certainly would be motive for murder. It would be interesting to know what the psychologist has to say to about him at the AGCC. I don’t know maybe it’s just me but GBC doesn’t add up to someone who is a normal rational thinking person.

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  55. Jen I couldn’t agree with you more as to GBC having some mental disorder. Earlier we had several posters who had had partners with narcissistic personality disorders who he seems to have much in common with. Then other posters who worked in the psych field said he has typical traits of a sociopath. I’m sure the psychiatrists at Arthur Gorrie will find him an interesting case. From what I’ve heard, jails are full of inmates with mental illness of one form or another.

    So much of GBC just seems wrong. From the not appearing on the appeal for Allison on TV with her parents, not going to the showgrounds while she was missing, the church vigil next door to their home… hiding behind his children. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head when you say he honestly did not believe he would be made accountable for what he did (if it’s proven in a trial that he did.) It was all about him, the attention, the money, the mistresses, the living beyond his means. A ‘normal’ person just does not do this.

    If we eventually find out what is actually ‘wrong’ with him it may explain all these things. In the meantime it just leaves us shaking our heads. I mean, it’s the oldest story in the book isn’t it – love, lust, greed – abhorrent as this is, it’s been done many times over the centuries. But what I find so galling is hiding behind his children to the point of using them as a shield in front of him at Allison’s funeral. And then crying and sobbing – at the time I felt for him – but now I realise he was crying for himself. The lack of caring about others just goes beyond words, and proves to me there is something definitely mentally ‘wrong’ with him.

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  56. Millie.

    I totally agree, he always had THAT deadline to meet.
    An argument and whack! Emotions and desperation.
    Nose bleeds, chipped tooth, and then to dispose of the body.
    Call Daddy-dearest and fix the mess.

    I have some fairly close mates, and in over the years we have ‘covered up’ our tracks when needed, when being silly.
    The funniest thing, I would phone my best mate early Monday morning at work, and his first comment was: “Oh dear, do we have to move the body?”, and just belly laugh.
    Over time this came as a great laugh between mates.

    But, not in this case.

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  57. The clay caterpillar – a combination of personality types: a grandiose self-view, a sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, and egotism. Characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others, with a cynical disregard for morality and a focus on self-interest and deception. An antisocial personality, characterized by impulsive thrill-seeking, and in its “primary” form by selfishness, callousness, lack of personal affect, superficial charm, and remorselessness. Added to that protection of a radically weak, shamed, or damaged self.

    References “The Dark Triad” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad.
    ———————————————————————————————————–

    Got a mental disorder – get treatment! If he was “smart” enough to google psychs in Brisbane he’d be “smart” enough to call & make an appointment……..

    IMO – He thought he could have it all & he thought he could get away with it! He still does!

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  58. I agree with the first part of your post ARC, all of it relates to GBC. But as to the last part “got a mental disorder – get treatment”, if GBC is a sociopath, there is apparently no ‘cure’ for this disorder. I’ve been reading through an interesting site this evening called lovefraud.com which describes sociopathic/psychopathic disorders. If you read through some of the links on the left-hand side which describe people with this disorder, and the havoc they can wreak in their families’ lives, it’s quite chilling.

    The interesting part is whether they are criminally insane, and apparently jails are full of people with the disorder. But if jailed and released, they continue along the same path of disregarding other people’s feelings and suffering, including their own children. I keep thinking of the images of GBC in the police car going from Indooroopilly Police station to the watch-house. Was he claiming innocence or hiding his face? No, he was staring straight ahead looking mighty peeved, as if someone was causing an annoyance in his life, what he wanted/did not want. Scarey.

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  59. Oh My God, ARC.

    The Dark Triad on Wikileaks is compulsory reading for all.

    Thank you for the link.

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  60. Sad for Allison – Sociopaths will charm people off their feet to convince them they are like ‘knights in shiney armour’ generally for pure gain….they are cunning, conniving and ‘fit’ themselves into any environment to appear to be ‘a nice person’. This, is obviously why he thought and believed no-one would have ever suspected him. He would no doubt have been convinced no-one would suspect him! He simply came across as a regular ‘nice guy’. Though, some would have seen through his mask.
    He would have continued along his path, sucked up the sympathy, he totally expected that would happen……too bad G……most saw through you…and your anger eventually brought you undone….

    Though, I have no doubt he will still be playing the sociopath role in prison..oh poor me..”can you believe they think I killed my wife????”

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  61. Sad for Allison,
    When I look at the photos of him in the police car, I see only one major thing which is the usual in this scenario:
    An individual who has been told vehemently by his solicitors NOT to look anywhere than straight ahead. When the cameras are there (and there were dozens in this case), all it takes is for that snap, “look to camera”, for a photographer to have the scoop of scoops and captions at the mercy of anybody at the editorial reins on duty to apply the caption to suit.

    Solicitors brief their clients much like the clients are children.

    It goes something like this…
    “There will be cameras. DO NOT look at them. Look only straight ahead. Straight ahead, not left nor right. Don’t look anywhere else. Stay still. Don’t look down, don’t scratch, don’t adjust your seatbelt. DO Nothing. Keep looking straight ahead. Show nothing.”

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  62. I’ve been thinking about this since I got up and thought I’d put it in here. Have to do it before my guests get up and we head out for the day.

    Someone has said that GBC was in the Army. I don’t know who it was or what thread its in but here is another theory I have.

    Those who join the Army, Navy or Air Force are trained to kill. I don’t mean random killings. I’m referring to combat style killings ie; if the enemy is coming at you with a gun or something, you have to fight back as best you can be it shooting or by another means.

    Lets assume GBC received that sort of training. He would know how to kill someone without drawing too much attention to himself.

    I’m really grasping at straws here but I think he and Allison had a big fight outside, Allison wouldn’t want any fighting around the kids. So, they have a verbal outside, its a big slinging match. Allison decides she’s had enough of being abused and decides to walk away from him, he grabs her, she strikes back at him, hence the scratches on his persons, she turns her back on him and walks away. He’s still enraged, sneaks up behind her and breaks her neck. Thats where the Army training comes in. If you’re in combat with the enemy and you spot the enemy, the last thing you would do is fire a shot a him. A gun shot echoes and that would attract great attention from both enemy and some of your own.

    I think he’s snuck up behind her and broken her neck. He’s then taken her inside the house, filled the bath with water, put her in it, clothes and all to wash away his DNA. By this time, he’s probably found a pair of gloves, rubber gloves or whatever. He’s taken Allison out of the bath and dried and re dressed her in the clothes he said he last seen her in. Then he calls Senior BC to tell him what he did. They both panic but Senior BC puts a plan in place. He would have keys to the Scout camping grounds so they drive and dump Allison in a place where she would be found but they couldn’t be seen.

    I hope some of that makes sense.

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  63. Hi there have been a few posts regarding Love Gx mental status. Lets make this clear once and for all, A narcissist, a sociopath- and now what G is – A PSYCHOPATH- as well- he is a combination of them all. Yes they fit Criteria for DSM iv for mental health disorders. The main difference between him and his type of effed-upness compared with others with a psychotic illness is that G IS NOT mad, just plain BAD.

    I thought it interesting that Love Chunks G also googled “psychiatrist Brisbane”- so perhaps he was going to try that rubbish on about insanity- until his lawyers told him to shut up.

    Other notable narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths are Milat, Gilham, Dahmer and Seth Gonzales.
    An example of someone really really damaged by their childhood and grew up to become that way is Katherine Knight.

    Love Chunks G would have being expected by ole sleazy pash boy Nige to meet certain standards, and G not being the sharpest tool in the shed couldn’t live up to expectations. So he kept up the “I am a successful business man” charade going for as long as possible, otherwise Nige would belittle and humiliate him. I mean, afterall, some distant old hag was a “Lady” in the UK, so Nige thought himself to be a cut above the rest, and passed that down to G.

    These animals see themselves above the law ,that the rest of us are inferior and stupid and i doubt that even with a payout from insurance Love G would have paid anyone other the the “contracted agreements” back, and only so he didn’t lose his Real Estates License.

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  64. Yep agreed Susan- Wise post- G IS NOT mad, just plain BAD…. lets see how bad he is in “General population” because thats where the COWARD and his father should be …………
    They won’t last long in “General population” … hence the lawyering up for their COWARDLY lives.
    NBC time to talk …. everyone is onto YOU.

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  65. No, wrong angle. GBC was googling ‘psychiatrist Brisbane’ to further his depressed wife state, going for a walk in the middle of the night and jumping off the bridge to her death.
    Another part of his master premeditated plan gone wrong.

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  66. Hi Pugville, that’s the explaination my hubby gave to me too, but the problem with that is so far no doctor or psychologist etc has come forward confirming that Allison was depressed and seeing them have they? In QLD you seem to get more info than us down in NSW.

    Even in Gordon Wood’s case he could prove that Caroline was seeing a doctor for severe depression, unlike in Allison’s case.

    I am not sure what benefit Love G would have gotten calling psychiatrists in Brisbane anyway. They aren’t allow to discuss client’s with anyone anyway, unless under supoena. If Love G was so worried, he would have been better off calling all the hospitals to see if she had an accident or admitted herself etc etc.

    Given that Allison was a Christian, there is no way she would have committed suicide. Not withstanding the fact that she knew her sleaze bag husband with a string of mistresses would then be responsible for raising her beloved children. Not a chance in hell. And if in the billion to one chance she did kill herself, where are the notes to her children telling them how much she loved them?

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  67. Hi Susan, I don’t believe for a moment Allison was depressed, but GBC wants people to think that.
    He may have googled it to give her the phone number to get help, etc.
    But what a coward,”‘hey, get yourself some mental help …” when he clearly was the problem!

    His plan was so simple; depressed wife, late night walk, suicide. But the police did not see a distraught husband that next morning.

    He had motive and opportunity.

    And I asked my hubby; how many times during the night do you know I am around, especially in the early hours? Every night.
    And when have you ever sent me a text message with ‘Love S x’?
    Never.

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  68. Yep Pug, and thats why Sis Skull has to ‘do Time” – she was complicit with the “she was depressed you know” and she knows either what her brother is capable of or “my choice”- she knows what he did- they all have to be locked up!

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  69. What’s to say she wasn’t depressed?
    Depression, whether clinically diagnosed or self-recognised should not be seen as a negative thing nor a weakness or character flaw.
    That she knew of her husband’s affair (not sure if we have been told she knew of multiple affairs) could well mean that she was depressed.
    Depression does not need to be cast as a negative thing,
    NOR does it mean she took her own life.
    I shouldn’t need to add that last statement, but have, for those who will mis-read this as a defence of the accused. I’m really defending “depression”. Many people have it.

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  70. GG @ 3:31 – I think in reference to how OW threw it into the interview was to plant it in peoples mind that Allison could very well have killed herself to support her brothers story. He had already blown it by saying she was fine the night she disappeared.

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  71. I agree with GG that Alison could have been depressed, heavens she had every right to be incredibly stressed and that can certainly lead to depression.Perhaps she was under a psychiatrist. This would not surprise me if she was. From all accounts she was a lovely person loving, and nurturing but could have been a little fragile as well. What surprises me a little is that she does not seemed to have done much work in recent times, despite her impressive work history prior to having children.

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  72. I agree with GG that Alison could have been depressed, heavens she had every right to be incredibly stressed and that can certainly lead to depression.Perhaps she was under a psychiatrist. This would not surprise me if she was. From all accounts she was a lovely person loving, and nurturing but could have been a little fragile as well. What surprises me a little is that she does not seemed to have done much work in recent times, despite her impressive work history prior to having children.

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  73. Mrs Scott 8.39pm

    IMO I don’t think she would have been murdered that early after her hair appointment as the girls would have still been awake and surely putting her in the bath etc would have been too hard to conceal from them.

    I feel he murdered her once they were in bed, the children would have been asleep. He either strangled her or possible suffocation with a pillow. Scratches were reported being under his armpit, torso, chest and face, this all seems very likely that he was straddling her while she was on her back in bed and struggling hence the scratches he has are consistent with this scenario. He must have been wearing a singlet or was bare chested to have scratches under his armpit. Bare chested or singlet seems to be the only explanation, therefore I believe the murder took place in the bedroom.

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  74. Allison was apparently on tuckshop duty that morning at the school and overheard 2 other mothers talking about one of GBC’s other affairs that she didn’t know about. This was apparently what the argument was about that night. Also, they had been sleeping in separate beds for over a year.

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  75. Allison allegedly hearing about her husband having an affair through gossip at tuckshop –

    Doesn’t that show you that people should stop gossiping!!!!

    It is absolutely disgusting!

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  76. What were the childrens bedroom arrangements ?

    Did they all sleep in the same bedroom ? or separate ?

    Where are the bedrooms in the house in regards to the other areas ?

    Who knows the layout of the house and could explain it ?

    What time do kids go to bed these days ?!?!?

    The children went to school on Thursday…. what was their schedule for that Thursday afternoon ?

    Who picked them up and drove them home from school and at what time on that Thursday ?

    What did/was ABC going to cook/prepare for dinner on Thursday night ? (I assume Bruce couldn’t be relied upon to feed the flock…)

    Did the girls eat dinner that night ? what, when and from who ?

    Did they eat breakfast ?

    Did Bruce make those lunches that he claimed to be making in the early morning email ?

    Did they go to school on Friday morning ? If so, who drove them and from where ?

    Did they take their lunch boxes with them ?

    Do the girls know that dog Scrap (and its bark) that belongs to their neighbour ?

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  77. OPPORTUNITY was not ideal that night with the kids home. If not planned for that night, it was planned very soon after though – there may have been a last minute adjustment in date. She might have threatened to spill some beans or file for divorce the next day, which would have derailed a plan to kill her a day or two later – so he felt the plan could wait no longer.

    He did have numerous hours from when the kids went to bed until they got up the next day, do to the terrible deed and dispose of evidence. And plugging his phone into the charger twice during the night as well as phoning his dad after midnight shows clearly that he not only had the opportunity but used it – he was not soundly asleep as he claimed he was. He had the time, the place, the victim, the vehicle, google to assist him with legal details, and possibly even a partner in crime….there may be more than one psychopath in this family….

    Bills needed to be paid by 30 June, he promised a mistress to be free with her by 1 July. He was on the clock. Had to do the ‘job’, have body hidden long enough to decompose such as to make COD difficult, but soon enough so he can get his grubby hands on the $$ before 30 June. All worked out beforehand. He’s just not the world’s best organizer or actor. And I suspect he discovered people do not just lie back and allow others to kill them – they fight back vehemently!

    I wonder if the OPPORTUNITY to solve all his financial woes and for him to gain freedom to womanise to his heart’s content may have been spotted and suggested by someone else…..someone who claims to be a financial, insurance and marriage guidance expert….??? I feel somewhat uneasy about this man’s involvement. I wonder if GBC did not get so entangled in (if not dependant on by the looks of it) NBC’s financial and personal advice and support, if things would not have worked out differently…. ????

    I suspect the children;s evidence will be very important – it is very possible if not likely that one or more of them heard/saw something….as awful a thougth as this may be….They must have noticed missing mom, maybe bedcovering in bedroom suddenly changed, smell of cleaning agents and/or disinfectants, seen dad covered in scratchmarks, his behaviour must have looked abnormal to them, I think they will knowingly or unknowingly know a lot……

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  78. judgejuryexecutioner
    July 3, 2012 at 9:07 am
    Although I’ve tried, I cant work out the relevance of your post. Any of it.
    Are you trying to take the mickey out of other posters?
    Are you simply being facetious?
    Or are trying to draw a red herring across the trail?

    This whole case is strewn with “red herrings.”

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  79. Nothing facetious or mocking about those questions ! ! ! !

    Just questions relating to the actual house (the most common place of opportunity in spousal killing) and the everyday life that went on in it, day in, day out…. a married couple with three young, school-age kids… western suburbs of Brisbane….

    It can’t have been their “regular” Thursday/Friday for the girls….

    Person/s would have had to consider the children… and what might pop out their mouths…

    I am assuming he didn’t plan it for that night…. it just happened/errupted…

    His best opportunity was not on a busy weekday school night… so I am speculating how he improvised as it happened to make it “normal” for the kids…

    He did mention preparing lunches in the Love G. emails…

    And for example… the old rumour that ABC and Bruce were sleeping in separate beds…. I suspect its true…

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  80. Hello Queensland Country Lady

    I just your comment at 8.30am. Good question to ask if you don’t mind me saying so.

    Everything that has been said by the poster below, has already been said by many others including myself.

    If you can find the comments in this maze of threads, read them :)

    Some have changed their minds about how Allison was killed and how it wasn’t meant to be on that night. Some have said she was dumped off the bridge and then changed the theory.

    LOL, good luck keeping up with it :)

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  81. Queensland Country Lady

    I’ve read your comment again and again and, its a valid question that deserves a valid answer. I know thats probably of no consilation to you however, you made a darn good point.

    The person that responded to you has changed their opinion on several occassions and made it hard to keep up with/follow.

    Keep at it Queensland Country Lady. I’m sure an answer will be forthcoming, just don’t hold your breath :)

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  82. However she was deposited at the bottom of the bridge… she got there one of two ways… thrown over or dragged/carried down…

    I would assume that person/s would be attempting to dispose of the body would not want it to be found…. that it why I have assumed it was thrown… as the fastest and best way…

    but who knows with whats going through these people/s heads with insurance schemes etc etc… so maybe they wanted the body found eventually… and dragged it down there…

    It was not washed/flushed downstream however and the scout campgrounds have nothing to do with it…….

    ..
    … I may repeat someone elses idea….

    But I don’t telephone Indooroopilly Police Station and ask them these questions about an ongoing case unlike someone else openly admitted to doing…..

    I imagine that constable on the front counter shared all his knowledge….

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