UPDATE-Gerard Baden-Clay will return to court on September 3 2012


Previous threads can be found using the links below, One being very first and so on…

One (26/04/12) here Two (14/05/12)  here Three (17/05/12) here Four (20/05/2012) here Five  (23/05/12) here Six (26/05/12) here Seven (28/05/12) here Eight (30/0512) here Nine (02/06/12) here Ten (08/06/12) here Eleven (11/06/12) here  Twelve 13/06/12 here Thirteen 17/06/12 here Fourteen 20/06/12 here Fifteen 22/06/12 here Sixteen 24/06/12 here Seventeen 26/06/12 here

A MAGISTRATE said he was “flabbergasted” that police would need four to five months to scour Gerard Baden-Clay’s finances – a process set to delay court proceedings.

The Money trail will take months to unravel

Prosecutor Danny Boyle told Magistrate Chris Callaghan they would be unable to give Baden-Clay’s defence team the full brief of evidence because an investigative accountant would need until mid November to analyse bank accounts and insurance policies.

Baden-Clay, 41, who did not appear today, is charged with murdering his wife Allison on April 19 and dumping her body on the banks of a creek.

An earlier court hearing was told Baden-Clay is $1 million in debt and stood to gain about that from his wife’s life insurance and superannuation policies.

Mr Boyle said police were also waiting on computer and phone examinations, as well as post mortem results.

“The post mortem tests are outstanding … the forensics pathologist was away last week and this week until Wednesday,” he said.

A recent court hearing heard police still do not have a cause of death.

Police have so far taken statements from 330 people and still have another 50 to 100 to go.

“The investigative accountant is still to come,” Mr Boyle said.

“The accountant has indicated that it will be mid November.”

Magistrate Callaghan said he was shocked it could take so long.

“You’re joking, aren’t you,” he said.

“I can’t believe for a minute that it’s going to take five months for an accountant to look into the finances of one person.”

Mr Boyle said the records were “voluminous”.

Magistrate Callaghan ordered that the brief of evidence be handed to the defence by no later than August 20, except for the accountant’s statement.

The matter will return to court on September 3 for a committal mention.

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431 thoughts on “UPDATE-Gerard Baden-Clay will return to court on September 3 2012

  1. I agree with C in C and Yoshi. They must find intent to call it Murder. Very important.
    I just find the actual act of murder much more interesting than the boring financial accounts.
    Leave it to the Bean Counters and give them all the time they want I say.
    Night

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  2. Good points Theorist and C in C. I’ve also thought regarding intent, TMH might have some interesting evidence to support this. Possibly emails from GBC, along the lines of ‘I can’t afford a divorce, but I’ll find a way to be with you by 1st July…’ Pretty damning stuff I would’ve thought, especially if she will be a witness in court. No doubt the financial debacle will be the final nail in the coffin though, I agree.

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  3. Well it’s a bit late for him to rely on these accident/provocation/self-defense defenses now don’t you think? He’s had ample time to come clean and fess up – the whole matter screams premeditation and he has lost any chance of pleading these defenses IMO. at sentencing he will be given the highest possible sentence due to his deplorable conduct throughout – I think he (they?)also should pay for the search costs.

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  4. I fully recognize this clue is of no help to QPS or the Dickie Family.
    Only to us here. Armchair detectives.
    ‘Twas in regard to innocence of GBC
    Have we heard the Dickie family who have shown incredible magnitude, resilience and strength of character jump to the defense of BC family in law?
    Did they offer GBC any comfort at the funeral?
    Did they show remarkable restraint and courage at the funeral?
    Clearly they know things. And I am sure they are kept “in the loop”

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  5. There was a psychic on this site within the last month from memory.
    Miss Marples welcomed the input of a psychic. (If not a psychic, a dreamer)
    Psychic had had a dream regarding Allison’s murder and a small creek. Not Kholo but near there.

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  6. Little things like keys would be easy to “lose”. For instance, wheelie bin, if not own bin, then someone elses. Whoevers bin got emptied before calling police.

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  7. Sad for Allison says:
    July 11, 2012 at 10:04 am
    from ‘the lounge’

    If we have a look at the photos at the top of this thread we will see a photo of black plastic and what looks like white rag or kitchen tidy bags or something….these are obviously forensic photos and were found where Allisons body was found.
    If Allison was placed at Little Ugly Creek and was washed down to Kholo Creek by the rains, would she have remained wrapped in this black plastic with all the twists and turns in the creek.
    Does anyone have a thought on this ???

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    • In the photos I can see in the one with the Council workers at the bridge, what looks like a discarded tyre, not sure about plastic. Like millie, I do remember another photo, in fact I’m pretty sure it was in one of Robbo’s threads, an image of strange cloths/plastic and wondering what they were. I’m not sure which thread – maybe Robbo still has it?

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      • Judy, when I looked at the map of where Little Ugly Creek is, there is a point on Wirraburra Road close to Moggill Road where the creek is very close, close enough to carry a body to the water. That’s quite a straight stretch of water to the bridge, I thought, without many twists and turns. It’s all very disturbing and confusing. The part I can’t decide on is whether they wanted her body to be found or not (for insurance.)

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  8. Hmmm….I have wondered about this plastic too. From memory, there was video footage via some news channel that showed Allison’s body on the creek bank, I can’t recall seeing that black plastic. The canoeist saw her body, so I doubt she would have been still wrapped – if she was at all. I don’t get why QP would leave the plastic there if ….or even if not… connected with finding Allison’s body?

    I am not 100% sure, but I don’t think they were forensic photos.

    The key theory is interesting as I recall hearing the gate wasn’t padlocked either, can’t remember the source though :/

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  9. RIP Allison – I think the forensics required G’s Beard to be removed so they could determine whether the scratches were consistent with a razor or fingernail scratches….

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    • Millie, I think so too. You don’t need a whole beard’s worth for DNA. I saw a doco on DNA once and you need an incredibly small amount of something to do the DNA testing. I think the photos of the body were stills from videos one of the tv channels took. What I thought weird was that GBC said she had dark top, lighter pants whereas in the pics it shows darker pants, lighter top.

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  10. Have been looking thru slide show above and had a thought.

    GBC texted Allison twice 20 minutes apart on the morning she went missing then reported her missing to the police about an hour (?) later…

    I don’t get that….I get what he was trying to do but it just makes him look more guilty. Surely he cannot think us and the QPS are that stupid not to suspect these texts…

    Did he onlt text her twice ?
    Did he text her more ….like every half hour until she was found ?
    Why and when did he stop texting her ?

    I also have an idea as to where Allison’s phone is….

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    • Hi Zim, I agree with your comments. Actually, why did GBC ring 000 anyway to report his wife missing when she was only 15 minutes late? (She was ‘expected’ home by 7am as she had a conference to go to, so he rings 000 at 7.15am!) Most normal people would phone or drive around before calling the police.

      Your comment as to where Allison’s phone is, is intriguing! I’m hoping the police have it. Do you think it may have been planted somewhere?

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      • Hi all.
        The 000 call had me intrigued too. He sends a mssg…20 mins later another, then an hour or so later rings 000. Did she have a phone that never went flat? Did she never put her phone on silent?
        I know with my iphone the mssg sound isn’t very loud so I don’t always hear it.
        Just another mistake he made as far as I’m concerned.

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      • In so many pics above he is on the phone….got me thinking.

        Where is her phone ?….

        Last week my son gave me his old iphone after he upgraded. Too easy….I just changed sim cards and no one was any wiser. My old phone ….just sits and is dead. Does not show up on any apps and of course does not ring or take messages.

        We heard that the last time her phone was ‘picked up’ was within a 4km radius of their home.

        We know GBC is none too bright but is short of dough. If he killed her would he dump her phone ? I do not think so. It is worth something… he would not be ABLE to dump it.

        All he had to do was dump the sim card.
        I reckon HE has or HAD the phone ! (Perhaps QPS have it now)
        Did he just change sim cards ? (dunno ?)

        Sometimes things are hidden in front of our own noses.

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        • Hi Zim, good points you make and yes, simple to replace a sim card with another on an iPhone (much easier to dump a sim card than hide a phone!) The only thing with this train of thought is, wasn’t the phone giving off a signal that police were tracing until the battery died a few days after Allison ‘disappeared’? Are you suggesting that when the battery died, GBC then retrieved the phone and replaced it with his sim card? That’s quite possible.

          Your comments make me rephrase my words, I hope the QPS have found her sim card, not necessarily her phone! To answer your question below, I’m not sure exactly when the police confiscated his phone.

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  11. Zim,
    You reckon that phone glued to his face (or over his facial scars) was/is Allison’s?
    That’s what you are saying? !!!

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    • QCL…..dunno..? Maybe ? Could be ?

      Too far fetched ? Perhaps….Nothing would surprise me anymore.

      It was just a thought when I realised how easy to make a phone seem to vanish by getting rid of the SIM…and all iphones look alike don’t they ?

      BTW I do not know where all of todays other post have vanished to….

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      • Zim…looks like the day and date is outta whack. I posted earlier today, but it is coming up with yesterdays date and pm time rather than am….I’ll check the lounge..

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      • Those “Happiness Engineers” been stealing everyone’s posts Robbo? Those criminals!!! You should start a thread about it… ;-)

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        • Im pulling my 3 hairs out…Damn happiness engineers. IM paying them good money for 2 weeks support for the changeover and I cannot contact anybody….Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Sorry folks, all your posts will be in the data base, obviously display issue

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  12. Hi Robbo
    Great new format
    Few teething problems is all
    Will buy you a slab soon
    Keep up the great work!

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    • Hi Pensive, thanks, I havent even enabled the cool stuff yet,I want to get the site running correctly first…cheers

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  13. Is there a new thread somewhere? I’ve just done all my updates and restarted my computer and can’t find one?

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  14. Just heard from Robbo and he’s switching over to the new server tonight. He says it should be all sorted by the morning. I got the email with a great summary of the means – opportunity – motive threads by Yoshi. Great job, Yoshi, the time you’ve put into this is greatly appreciated!! :)

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  15. Had to go out to Mount Crosby today makes me angry and sad every time I drive over that bridge.

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  16. I am just testing to see if I can post in this thread yet. Since last week’s changes I have only been able to post once and not again. The one time I managed to post a larger than usual reply box was available, asking for name first and email second, as the one I am typing in now – so I am confident all the teething problems are now fixed! :)

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  17. Yaayyy! All seem to be well! Hopefully we can now pick up where we left off a week or so ago. All is very quiet on the Baden Clay front in the media, it seems…..

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  18. I spoke too soon last night, shortly after making my triumphant post, I got a “site undergoing maintenance” message and could not get back in. Hopefully all sorted now :)

    News on progress or developments in the Allison Baden Clay case seem to be scarse and we have a long wait till 3 September. I wonder if the man himself will make an appearance then or will only his lawyer appear again to on his behalf.

    Must the prosecution reveal all their evidence then or can they still keep a few aces up their sleeve?

    Do any of the locals have any BC related information that may be of interest?

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  19. Hello RIP Allison

    I too was locked out – first for maintenance, and then prohibited…. Wasn’t sure if it was the result of repeat offending!

    On my drive home from work this evening, I was pondering that matters were perhaps a little bit TOO quiet – the calm before the storm, perhaps? We can only hope…

    Once again the heavy rain reminded me of the days when Allison was missing.

    IF her body was initially disposed of upsteam of her final resting place, I wonder if the perpetrator(s) felt the urge to re-visit the site of their venal handiwork in the ensuing days?

    The old adage has is that offenders often return to the scene of their crime – can anyone provide information or evidence that such a scenario applies in some/many/or most cases? Or is it just an “old wives’ tale?” (my apologies to old wives, I used to be one!!)

    I’m still shaking my head about the bizarre chance that our fellow posters ran into not one, but two, gerBILLIOUS vehicles on their outing to honour dear Allison.

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  20. Hello GHS,

    LOL about th erepeat offending! I’m pretty sure it was just teething issues. All seems to work normally tonight which is great.
    You may be right re the calm before the storm. I bet it is not calm at QP = they must be beavering away eery minute of the day.

    Yes it is an interesting expression – about perpetrators returning to the scene of thier crime. It will be interesting to find out who discovered this – possibly a trend noticed by criminal psychologists???

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  21. Hi GHS, I did a bit of Googling on the subjest of returning to the scene of a crime. Looks like it does sometimes happen, for a variety of reasons.

    For example at http://forensics4fiction.com/2012/06/16/returning-to-the-scene-of-the-crime/ “On the ghoulish end of the spectrum some killers return to have “relations” with their victims (pause for vomiting). Other reasons may include the following:
    1.Checking to see if the body/crime scene has been discovered by police
    2.Looking for items that may have been left behind. Sometimes in the heat of the moment (and in darkness) a killer may drop anything from weapons, tools, or even a wallet. If they have misplaced something like this they may fear that it was dropped at the dump site and return to look for it.
    3.Relocating evidence/body. If they believe the police are closing in on the crime scene (like a foot search moving in that direction) or some other activity (land development) may uncover the remains, they may return to exhume the body for relocation. If the body was originally dumped on the surface or placed in a shallow grave they may have a change of heart and decide on a better hiding place or dig a deeper grave in another location.”

    One wonders whether Allison’s killer and/or accomplices may have done this for some reason. I keep wondering about Asha (I think it was her) having seen the 2 snr BC’s just sitting in their car staring into space early one morning clost to the area where those bloodcurdling screams were heard late on 19 April…….

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  22. PS re above post, I looked back and it was Sasha (not Asha!) who posted on July 2, 5:34pm in the MOTIVE thread: “Spotted the Bwanna car on Rafting ground road this morning corner of Westridge St Brookfield parked at 8.30 am with Mr and Mrs Bwanna looking a bit bemused and staring into the distance.
    It seemed bit strange to me?”

    It is a bit to me too….especially since this would be close to Rees way where the bloodcurdling screams and subsequent muffling of them were heard late on 19/4.

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  23. Thx Robbo for keeping us all Co-Joined, This murder Allison’s death is about very very bad powers and groups/corruption in brisbane society- of that I am sure! The BC throwbacks are just the tip of the iceberg,,, its going to weed out,,,slowly…. GBC and NBC need to be put away for eternity- you can’t do immunity- for this kind of heinous crime- especially when you are Poppa Skull “the architect/root of the problem”. May they rot in Hell!

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  24. Hi all, I have added a drop-down MENU with GBC threads. I need to fine tune it, but it is much easier to find stuff, once we get used to using it.

    ALSO I have on the suggestion of more than a few people, grabbed a widget from Amazon, that lists the best selling crime books. Now Im not saying buy any of them of course, but they give me a few dollars on a sale. All helps to run this site, and keep it going with the obvious upgrades that cost me per month.

    No stress, no drama, it does no harm, if even to let us know what CRIME books are hot!

    Have a good night :Wink:

    Robbo

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  25. Mountain Mist posted in the lounge that QPS had been back at the BC house for several hours today – very interesting indeed….

    It is a worry that the BC’s have had so much time to remove and destroy evidence, financial records etc….but hopefully not all had been destroyed yet.

    Kenmore Mum posted about 10 days ago that she’d seen the BC snrs go to another address, she actually wondered if they had moved. Does anyone know if they had?

    Could they be hiding sensitive stuff at a different address, maybe another family property, I’m not sure but I think someone posted some time ago that the brother Adam owns property in the area….is that right?

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  26. Hi everyone, have had a bit of a problem with the site recently (like many!) but things seem to be sorting themselves out now. I’m a bit unsure why the last comment here is 2 days ago, but might post this on both ‘active’ threads, as there seem to be two now…

    Regarding discussion on several police being at the BC house on Thursday, and it may have been mentioned but a local poster on WS said that NBC was there with police, which in itself is interesting. I wonder what they were doing there, and what was in the ‘two paper bags’? This is what they posted last night or early this morning (sorry if it’s already come up here). Will post their quote below due to restriction on post size here.

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  27. This is what the local on WS posted: “The trailer was hooked up to the prado. If NBC was just there to meet QPS then why the trailer. It looked empty to me. I do have a blurry photo of the trailer and prado but have no idea how to attach it and its not an exciting photo.I had a friend with me and I have just asked her what she saw NBC carrying as she was a little more “bolder” than I with the sleuthing. I quote what she emailed to me.
    “I think it was a cardboard box. I didnt see him speaking to police. but i did see the plain clothes detectives standing outside with 2 large brown paper bags at their feet.
    I saw a woman walking back from the white pajero. presumably she had put something in there and was walking back to the house. she was a little chubby, i dont know what mumma bwana looks like” “(end of quote.)

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  28. Thank you so much for the information, Sad for Allison! :D

    Wishing you a wonderful weekend :D

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  29. Thank you RIP Allison.

    It horrifies me those who sprout like GBC and how they are in actuality.

    Something to be said for adages on people such as he.

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    • Hi everyone, I have some visitors here, not to see me of course,but his royal highness Elliott!!! how is the site running today? I will get my teeth stuck into interacting with you all when they stop hogging my son! :-)

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  30. Hi Robbo,

    Nothing nicer than your son being under demand :D Love it! :D

    The site is running really well.

    Talk soon! :D

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  31. Hi there moonlight, nice to see you again :) Not sure where all the other bloggers have gone lol! I think Robbo’s new site is sorting itself out bit by bit though!

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  32. Good on you Robbo! I’m sure you and your partner are very proud showing little Elliott off! He’s a gorgeous little lad.

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  33. Wonder how G is going on his little holiday. You think he’s holding strong in there or on the decline??

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  34. Hi Robbo, thought I was talking to myself for a minute :)
    I know what u mean by the mutts taking u for a walk :):) our dog does the same :)

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  35. I have not managed to post for a few days, am trying one more time using Google Chrome instead of IE……

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  36. I always use Internet Explorer but after having had a lot of trouble posting lately, I have just tried Google Chrome and it worked. I will send Robbo a few screen shots that I have gathered – hopefully he can make sense of the probem in case there are others out there like me. Does anyone else have trouble posting when using IE or is this problem unique to me?

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  37. RIP Allison, I use google chrome all the time..so much quicker, I only have a few problems when the cache needs cleaning.
    I love animals also Robbo…I have a spoilt cat and a beautiful puppy.

    Have a nice day all :)

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  38. Interesting that there was no mention whatsoever of the latest visit of QP to the BC home in the news. We are fortunate to have local ears on the ground so to speak. Thanks guys for keeping us informed!

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  39. Golly but it’s quiet here – where’s everyone gone? Are they having technical difficulties or do they just have nothing to discuss with no active news being reported?

    There is one little detail that to me has seemed a little odd, I wonder how everyone else feels about it. It is the issue of the 1 min 30 sec facetime call in the early morning hours of April 20.

    If my son was to phone me at that time of the night to tell me he has just accidentally killed his wife, I feel pretty sure we would have a lot longer than 1 ½ minute discussion about this. I would be outraged – shocked out of my wits, I will ask many questions about what happened, and I will definitely try and counsel him out of any ideas of dumping her body and creating a web of lies on top of what’s already happened. All this will take a LOT longer than 1 ½ min.

    So unless that call was to summons Bwana to come over or for them to meet somewhere and the rest was discussed face to face, to me a 1 ½ min conversation indicates sufficient prior knowledge on Bwana’s side that the bare minimum was required to be said – ie premeditation and more than just GBC being in on the plan.

    I wonder if neighbours of GBC and NBC heard/saw any of their vehicles arriving/departing from each other’s properties during that night….???

    What’s everyone else’s take on this?

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    • Hi RIP, judy and MybitchG,

      Many of us are still here, reading, watching and waiting. We are not giving up on the case, or at least I am not. I agree with many posters that NBC is implicated in this case. What the QPS are waiting on, I cannot say. Perhaps they don’t have enough circumstantial evidence yet, or they are playing the waiting game themselves, preventing NBC having direct contact with GBC, letting things fester a little. NBC may be a hard nut to crack, but I’m confident the QPS know what they are doing. They have time on their side, which NBC does not.

      It’s a bit like when there was a lot of angst on the blog about GBC being arrested, it happened in the fullness of time when the QPC were ready – and it wasn’t really that long all things considered. The same applies to NBC. I agree, the length of time of the face-time call wasn’t long. I know what I would do if one of my adult children contacted me in the middle of the night with a ‘dilemma’ like this! Tell them to fess up and face the consequences. This case is going to be one helluva ride I think… but many of us are here for the duration, just waiting for justice to be served in the fullness of time.

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    • Hi Rip Allison – I have heard a couple of Baf*%wanna’s neighbours on talk back radio – they are fully supporting him – esp that woman that looks like a man :) lol

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  40. Good morning SFA,RIP,Chris and MYBitch and everyone else …….Couldn’t help but have a little chuckle at the name ‘mybitch’ LOL….I have great faith the QPS are doing a great job..I feel with this case having so much public outrage that the Police are even more committed to leave no stone unturned.I think when QPS are ready to put all the evidence on the table, we will all be shocked at how thorough and how much evidence they do have.
    SFA, yes we are here for the duration…we are here for ‘Justice for Allsion’

    Hope you all like my new avatar and name change :)
    Have a nice day all :)

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  41. Thanks Justdreaming. Was trying to be a little original.

    I know the media had gone a little quiet on this of late but am sure there’s alot going on in the background to bring justice to Allison and the family. Time will tell.

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  42. Hi Sad for Allison, you describe it very well – things do happen “in the fullness of time”…..we will just have to be patient. I guess there’s no benefit if crucial information leaks out prematurely, so the quiet is probably good… hopefully the ‘silence before the storm’ :)

    You are right Justdreaming, I too think QPS has done a great job so far and there is much action behind the scenes. Our jaws will likely drop when all is revealed eventually.

    Chris71, it is interesting that the neighbours are so supportive….it could of course also be a smoke screen…..to keep their ears as close to the ground as possible…. they could be powerful witnesses if they have hear or see anything useful …. As MBG says, time will tell!

    Would be interesting if one could be a fly on the wall in Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre and in skull lodge now and again….

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  43. Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre is the current remand centre for south-east Queensland with a single bed capacity for 890 male prisoners. It has an operational Maximum Security Unit for up to 18 male prisoners. Industries at the centre consist of printing, woodworking and textiles. These allow prisoners to develop useful trade skills to assist with their successful reintegration into the commuity.
    Professional services are supplied to assist prisoners to cope with incarceration and prepare them for release into the community. These services include psychological, psychiatric, counselling and specialist referrals.
    More detail at http://www.thegeogroupinc.com.au/arthur.html

    I can not imagine life with such limited freedom. I found a blog by an ex inmate of Arthur Gorrie at http://themeeningoflife.blogspot.com.au/2007/07/chapter-32-arthur-gorrie-remand-and.html . It gives one some insight into how he experienced going there, for those who may be interested.

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  44. I just tried to post something with 2 links, and it did not appear, so I suspect I will have to post it in 2 parts, with 1 link each. Here goes part 1:

    Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre has an operational Maximum Security Unit for up to 18 male prisoners. It is the current remand centre for south-east Queensland with a single bed capacity for 890 male prisoners.
    Industries at the centre consist of printing, woodworking and textiles. These allow prisoners to develop useful trade skills to assist with their successful reintegration into the commuity.
    Professional services are supplied to assist prisoners to cope with incarceration and prepare them for release into the community. These services include psychological, psychiatric, counselling and specialist referrals.
    More detail at http://www.thegeogroupinc.com.au/arthur.html

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  45. WOW, this is weird, I posted something containing 2 links, it did not show up so I split it into 2 and reposted the parts separately with one link each – now I see only the 2nd one showing up. Hopefully part 1 will show up sometime.

    Robbo if my original post also shows up please delete it to avoid duplication.

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  46. This is beginning to feel like a monologue… :)

    Two observations by the author in the abovementioned blog caught my eye.

    The first being “Goal is about many things and the people are here for many different reasons. But one recurrent theme is money. …. It corrupts and destroys erodes and degrades, it causes conflict and leads to deceit….” It seems applicable also to the GBC case.

    The second was “This is a prison that is owned by an American company. It is run as a business for profit…. It costs approximately $135 per day to keep me in prison.” This was seemingly written in 2007 – I wonder what it costs taxpayers in 2012 to keep prisoners locked up???

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  47. RIP,

    That blog was an interesting read. I imagine for GBC the reality of the next 3 years before trial and possibly decades afterwards will be starting to sink in.

    I’ve been to a few remand centres in my time (emphasis on “been to” and not “incarcerated in” – lol) and understandably the inmates never have good things to say about them. Most of the time they are keen to have their case dealt with as even if they are found guilty they can get out of the limbo that life on remand tends to leave them in.

    “A study by the Productivity Commission showed that, in 2007-8, prisoners cost an average of $269 per day in Australia…or $98,000 each per year.” – http://www.cla.asn.au/0805/index.php/articles/articles/and-still-the-prison-population-rises

    That report is across Australian average, so not sure of QLD. Either way it’s not cheap and would no doubt be higher in 2012.

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  48. Hi Yoshi and RIP, wow those stats regarding the cost to keeping inmate behind bars is astounding, and as you say Yoshi probably much higher now in 2012… From all I’ve read and heard remand centres are not a ‘fun’ place to be. And that’s how it should be. I guess they are in limbo land, maybe it prepares prisoners for their life ahead.

    While it’s so quiet here I’ve been reading posts on Websleuths from time to time. A poster there visits prisoners in jail during the course of their work, and posted that GBC did plenty of crying initially but has settled down now. No doubt feeling sorry for himself and that he ‘shouldn’t be there’! They say word travels fast in prison, and many of the other inmates are curious to meet him. Ah well, he made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.

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  49. LOL Yoshi about your careful wording re “having been to” a few remand centres!

    It definitely do not sound like a place I’d like to “be in”. I can understand GBC crying Sad for Allison, golly I would too if I threw my life away like he has his. Divorced and bankrupt would have been much better option!

    It is beyond imagination that he thought he could just pretend some nameless faceless stranger killed his beautiful wife out on a late night walk and everyone will believe him, being such a pillar of society and having such ‘excellent’ genealogy – fully expecting to just do a simple cash-conversion (Allison exchanged for $), quickly sort out all his $ problems, and then cuddle up to a well-to-do mistress…or two…or three….

    How can anyone be so callous and so dumb as to believe this would all pan out well??? It boggles the mind! :)

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  50. Hey everyone …… I’m sure most are keeping an eye on this case, and will pop in and out of here; there’s not much to discuss about the case I guess, unless something happens…
    I’m thinking…perhaps the financial investigations are going to play an obvious big part in this case; and just maybe that’s where ol’ nige will come a cropper? He must be feeling a little like a rabbit in a burrow, I wonder?
    RIP, I think he would definitely have knowledge of Allison’s death with that face time call…in one way or another, and I agree, probably just confirmation…..
    I agree, I think there’s going to be a great deal of evidence and revelations when the time comes.
    Having media quietness is a good thing for Allison’s family and girls at the moment I feel…..they certainly deserve some time out. Hopefully, they will be spared a long drawn out trial…….time will tell.
    Sure is amazing how much it costs to keep a prisoner behind bars!!

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  51. RIP Allison, yeah it does boggle the mind in most people. Unfortunately, there are people who cannot discern from what IS reality and their created reality…..which, unfortunately, for Allison and the girls; G believed his reality was one of success….at any cost :(

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  52. Hi Millie, I also hope the girls and Allison’s family are doing well and that during emptying the GBC home, the BC snr’s took (or sent if they don’t have contact) some of Allison’s personal belongings to her family and children.

    Re the boggling of the mind, it is difficult to understand that someone can outwardly seem to live a ‘normal’ life, even achieve positions of power in society. And then in his 40’s he does this monstrous act, killing the one person who likely knew for some time that all was not well with him and was nevertheless prepared to stand by him, doing not just her but also their children, her family and all who loved her a terrible injustice.

    If we still have a criminal psychologist amongst us, I would be very interested in an overview on how this happens, what pressures make all the ducks line up for someone to risk ALL for $$ – his integrity, his reputation, his freedom, his family…???

    The frightening thing is that he is not the only person in the world who has done such a deed – people are murdered daily. It is frightening that to a small % of humanity, life seems so cheap and/or they feel it is their right to decide whether another human being should live or die.

    I wondered how many people one has contact with over one’s lifetime are one of these types who under the wrong circumstances, are capable of murder.

    I see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate that wordwide the murder rate is about 7/100 000 people, ie about 1 in 14 000 people are killers.

    I guess the scariest aspect about this is that one can to pick them out in a crowd. Most probably are nice kids, maybe even appear to be nice adults, yet inside of them there is this timebomb waiting to go off…..sometime…someday….

    Makes me shiver!

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  53. I agree with you RIP and millie. I suppose anyone involved emotionally with someone like GBC, who to say the least must have displayed narcissistic traits during his life – if not psychopathic – would find it difficult to read the warning signs. I’ve wondered if it was a reason Allison studied psychology. Maybe she was interested/concerned that these traits could be passed onto her daughters?

    The issue it would seem, if you are emotionally involved with a person with these traits, is perceiving that they could possibly harm you to a level of taking your life. The DV in their relationship has been mentioned many times, but never officially. You’d have to assume there was an element of it in their relationship, or at the very least some form of control in GBC. The sad thing I think, is that women (in particular) involved with disturbed people like GBC, probably don’t realise that their life is in danger. If Allison had realised this I’m sure she would’ve taken steps to leave him. Perhaps she did instigate those steps, and that precipated the narcissistic rage that ended her life. I wonder if we’ll ever know.

    There was mention in the media (CM?) that Allison didn’t like to be perceived as someone who failed at anything. Her sense of pride then was probably her undoing. And as you say, for what? Money, greed, delusions of grandeur on GBC’s part. If he is stressing out in prison and losing weight – well then that’s for him to deal with. I doubt very much personally that he is experiencing any sense of remorse for what he has done to his own children. He will be in damage control mode as in blaming his lawyers for incompetence at the bail application hearing, and then no doubt at trial coming out with blaming Allison for ‘making him do it’ – if he pleads guilty, which I strongly doubt. What a weak and dispicable man. At least where he is now he can’t wreak any more destruction.

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  54. who is Rob Cheesman (GBC friend who went to visit him with GBC parents yesterday). It appears he has his own professional services business and has given a testimonial for “offices first” – a company that offer serviced offices – GBC new office in Toowong Tower. He probably referred GBC to the new space where he would only pay rent for the space/service he would use?

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  55. Hi Sad for Allison,

    I suspect even if Allison was wary of GBC’s outbursts, she would not have expected him to kill her, especially not while their children was in the house. He was also supposedly playing the ‘counselling’ game remember, which sadly would have put her a little at ease…

    It must have come as a big shock to her when she realised he was trying to kill her. I can not imagine how it must feel if you look into the eyes of a person you have married and they are trying their level best to drown, strangle or suffocate you. Too horrible to contemplate!

    So I feel no sympathy for his tearfulness and weight loss. (Thanks for the link Scubadiver!) Whatever he is experiencing in jail must be way better than lying ice cold under the Kholo bridge, never to see your children and loved ones again, not even through a wall of glass.

    I guess since he is again not required to attend court on 3 September, he will not face the public (I noticed he turned his back on as many people as possible the first time) and only send his lawyer to represent him.

    MBG, yes it will be interesting to know more about Rob Cheesman – does anyone know how they are associated – personal or business?

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  56. Ha ha Ozmosis re the rock climbing!!
    He may be allergic to spiders living amongst rocks …. may not be ideal for him :o

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  57. Hi RIP, I’ve had nightmares of someone very dear to me suffocating and strangling me and woken in a cold sweat. No doubt it preys on all of our minds, the horror of what Allison must have gone through in her last moments. It’s clear she put up a helluva fight. To survive for her daughters and to keep what is surely everyone’s right – to stay alive.

    What you say is true, even though he is in prison, GBC is alive! A luxury Allison no longer has. Silence, the inability to speak from the grave. But she has her angels watching over her. Her body didn’t float out into the Brisbane River, but was found. Her body is giving clues to those that can find them. Karma. Justice.

    GBC is only crying for himself in prison. “I feel sorry for myself! It wasn’t meant to turn out this way! I’ve got away with so much in my life where people (parents, Allison) have bailed me out!” Poor you GBC, taking another person’s life goes against the grain and offends our collective consciousness, of what makes us human – empathy, a sense of right and wrong and being accountable for our actions. I’m not a vindictive person in any way, but GBC is where he deserves to be, if it’s proven in a court of law that he is guilty of murdering his wife. And yes, I agree with you, he is a coward and wouldn’t even face the court in his only appearance so far. No way will he stand up and face the court in September. Men like him target the meek and defenceless – women and children.

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  58. RIP Allison…I am not a criminal psychologist, however I have a background in behavioural science so I can give you a bit of insight, based on my own theory on what possibly ‘made all the ducks line up’. I will try to keep it as simple as I can… this is only my theory and does not necessarily make it right.

    Firstly, we have to understand the mind is very complex and everyone’s individual recipe of genetic predisposition and learned behaviour produce a huge menu. A person’s belief system can be very strong and in extreme circumstances can result in dire consequences..

    Gerard, I believe does not have a psychopathic mind; rather, probable sociopath with high ego needs fuelled with a strong desire for success with associated control issues. Generally these people have very little emotional attachment.
    Please note; not all people with a strong success drive or sociopath etc will become a murderer.

    So what set GBC apart from other people with a strong drive for success? GBC had projected himself as a successful person before he achieved success – he had taken the podium before the race, so he had a lot to lose…if he could not live up to his perceived reality.

    Eventually it became reality, he was successful, he was where he believed he should and deserved to be.

    Slowly things began to crumble – I am unaware of, if any other business involvements, however, there is evidence his success was not as it had been, resulting in huge amounts of debt. Business failing, relationship failing; Gerard would have seen his successful life unravelling fast, and on top of all this, pressures from his mistress to fulfil a commitment. Things were not as it should be in Gerard’s world; failure was not an option….it did not exist in his belief system.

    Given that Gerard and Allison’s relationship had broken down; Gerard would have had very little if any emotional attachment toward Allison and her family. She had become a thorn in his side and divorce was going to create a burden on him. Allison would have seen the ‘real’ Gerard, she had studied psychology and would have been aware of his dark side – he could not risk being exposed (though I doubt very much Allison would have revealed this). Did she think he was capable of killing her? Do we believe our loved ones would kill us?

    So to Gerard the solution was simple – Get rid of Allison. Allison’s insurance would provide a clean financial slate. The risk of Allison exposing him as the person he really was would be gone. Financial difficulty and personal failure of divorce gone. Embarrassment of possible bankruptcy gone. Pressure of fulfilling mistress’ commitment gone.

    In Gerard’s own mind, he believed no-one would suspect him. Did he think of his children? I doubt it…..if at all, perhaps believed they would survive.
    I do believe The murder of Allison was pre-meditated, however, I don’t think it was meant to happen that night. I think Gerard lost control in a heated argument – with the seed already planted in his mind to dispose of Allison; he killed her in a state of rage.

    This is a very simple take on my theory of ‘what pressures made the ducks line up’ And again, only my theory…..

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  59. Re the Olympics MBG –

    Well in Gerard’s mind, he was gold, gold, gold all the way – even had his special jacket to prove it.

    Until things began to fold, fold, fold.

    He no doubt fancied himself in cross-country (failed dismally at this attempt) and would have seen himself as odds-on favourite in any kind of medley (hello ladies!!)

    With all those Scout badges and his ancestral peerage (pause for nauseous reaction), he also had delusions of grandeur with regard to his supremacy in marathon running (but got caught), weight-lifting (needed help) and shooting through when it all got too hard.

    We will have to wait and see about his prowess in wrestling – but it appears he came off second-best to a caterpillar in the first bout.

    Swimming – well he’s well and truly against the tide now.

    One thing though is for sure – he’s for the high-jump when all’s done and dusted.

    I suspect his favourite part of the Gerbil Games is the nightly debrief.

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  60. Very creative GHS but somehow I don’t think he qualifies for any event in any games. No ones a winner in this event.

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  61. Very clever GHS – we can do with a bit of humour amidst the sombre discussion :o

    Millie, thanks for sharing your opinion. Yes, I must say it does make good sense that he tried to walk before he could crawl and wanted to keep the pose at all cost. So failure of his business (bankruptcy) and marriage (divorce) just weren’t options for him, although to most people they will likely seem better than spending much of one’s earthly life in prison….and if one is religious one’s eternal life in hell.

    It is just hard to grasp that someone can have so little respect and concern for a partner of 15 years and mother of his children – to him she was clearly a burden, but to those 3 girls she is absolutely irreplaceable.

    I also think it was premeditated, and it seems one of both of his parents if not his sister too were in the know regarding the plan. That makes it even more difficult to get one’s head around. It’s bad enough to come across one bad apple, but discovering the rot extends to more family members was quite a shock. All previously posing as a successful ‘upper crust’ lot, however it was all a very thin veneer which has now been well and truly peeled back. And what’s under it does not pretty at this stage.

    One wonders where his ‘financial advisor’ planned for him to recoup the $million he borrowed…..and how much the advisor had to do with hatching this terrible ‘solution’….

    I also think it is likely the murder was planned for another date, but emotion if not also greed and impatience got the better of him. So the financial advisor may have been informed at 12:30am on 20 April that all did not go exactly to plan, but the ‘job’ is done….how awful!

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  62. Good morning all, I was reading the (NON abusive) facebook site for Allison ‘Justice for Allison Baden-Clay and her Family’ that…..

    The house at Brookfield is totally vacated now,the flowers have been taken down,and all that is left is memories…

    so sad…those dear little girls and the Dickie family have had to endure more than I could ever handle….

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  63. Hi Bella-Dee and Dan,
    Dan on August 1, 2012 at 11:33 am…Interesting reading Dan ;)
    I noticed Lord Baden Powell has a facebook site :)
    Baden-Clay or Baden -Powell…I sure wouldn’t want to be associated with those names..I sure would be having a name change…those names will now always be remembered as ‘mud’ for a lifetime…Baden-Powell the Paedophile..Baden-Clay the wife killer and $1,000,000 high flyer. Thank godness those little girls can marry and change their name…my opinion only…

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    • If I was the Dickie Family, I’d be thinking ahead and after he’s convicted changing their name. The stigma of all of this will hang over their heads forever otherwise.

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  64. totally agree Aus……so,so sad what that horrid man has done to these dear little girls and their mum.

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  65. I was reading that Mr Rob Cheeseman and Mummy and Daddy visited GBC last Tuesday and it was a very emotional visit…..
    suck it in Gerry, you’re a ‘big’ boy now….. you will have a lot more of those visits to deal with
    How shameful Gerry that you can sit there and cry and feel all sorry for yourself absolutely disgusts me you big sook …..not once did you feel sorry for your beautiful wife …
    You always had a smirk on your face whilst Allison was still ‘missing’….obviously rubbing your hands together, thinking…money,money,money, it’s a rich mans world….when I get my hands on Allisons life insurance I will live in that fantasy world.

    The Rob Cheesyman that visited him obviously went to the same school in Toowoomba as the B-Cs although he is a lot older, so maybe a friend of the ‘Passion Pop’ couple.

    http://www.tppsa.org/assets/files/PrepRollList2011.pdf

    I posted this in the ‘summary’ however it is awaiting moderation :)…I realized I had put to many links at the bottom so I copied it here with only one link :)

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  66. Interesting Justdreaming! I see there are 2 Rob Cheesman’s in the Toowoomba Prep School – one from 1944-1950, and the other 1976-1982. Not sure which one visited GBC – snr or jnr. Either way, presumably the Cheesman family has been friends with the BC’s for a long time.

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  67. Good morning all!

    Does the “Cheesman” name bug you with the spelling? I just want to add an “e” and I’ll be happy – lol!

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  68. Good morning all,

    Hi moonlight,
    yes the spelling of Cheesman sure does bug me also LOL…I just had to give him an ‘e’ then towards the end of my post decided a ‘y’ sounded even better :)

    Hi RIP,
    I noticed the 2 Robert Cheesman’s in the Toowoomba Prep School..if we take into consideration the years they started Prep School…
    Robert Graham (snr) started 1944, then he would be aged in his 70’s….approx
    Robert Anthony (jnr ) started 1976, then he would be aged in his 30’s….approx
    Robert Graham Cheesman who calls himself BOB worked for the ‘Cheesman Applegrath Firm’ which is a Taxation and Accounting business at 121 Herries St. Toowoomba. BOB’s Father Robert S Cheesman founded the firm and retired 1969…
    Robert Graham (BOB) had a son named Robert Anthony Cheesman who calls himself (ROB)..this Guy works at Toowong Towers, level 3 (same place GBC moved his C21 business to before he was arrested ) and this business has something to do with Realestate.
    In my opinion it would be Rob Cheesyman (jnr) from Toowong Towers who visited GBC in Jail….then again it could have been Bob (snr)….after all it is the time of the year to do our Tax and this guy had a business which dealt in Taxation and Accounting…..

    Maybe…..GBC may have owed somone a few $$$$$ and they were asking for it from his rental roll… :) :) :)

    The Cheesman family sure loved the name ‘Robert’ ;) …my opinion only….

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  69. An R Cheeseman workes for Brookfield Agencies as a realestate agent the office is across the road from GBC’s House.

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  70. chiappa on August 3, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Good afternoon chiappa…thank you for that information…would he be the R Cheesyman that is now in Toowong Towers as he is also into realestate.

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  71. Seems a bit to close to home this Brookfield Realestate agent I am told by a Kenmore realestate person worked for Raine and Horne Kenmore about the same time as GBC

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  72. There is Rob Cheesman who is a Director of Kettering Professional Services saying he as 15 years experience as an accountant and process improvement and ERP implementation. The company is located at Toowong Towers……. Could this be the friend? There is a photo of him on the company website and I’d say he would be same age as GBC. I’m sure if they friends and he knew there were serviced offices available in the building that Rob would have told his mate to move to the Towers building as he’d only have to pay for space used and reception services if required. Much cheaper than paying a commercial lease for his real estate business that was falling apart. In my opinion they must be good friends who have known each other for years.

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  73. chiappa on August 3, 2012 at 1:29 pm said:
    An R Cheeseman workes for Brookfield Agencies as a realestate agent the office is across the road from GBC’s House

    Chiappa, there is only one ‘house’ almost directly opposite GBC’s house…..is that the ‘office’ you are referring to?

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  74. Scubadiver on August 3, 11.26pm

    Thank you for your information…I also think that may have been the Rob Cheesyman that visited G in Jail…Kettering Services has something to do with Realestate….below is a copy of part of what I wrote on August 3,10.52am

    Robert Anthony Cheesman who calls himself (ROB)..this Guy works at Toowong Towers, level 3 (same place GBC moved his C21 business to before he was arrested ) and this business has something to do with Realestate.
    In my opinion it would be Rob Cheesyman (jnr) from Toowong Towers who visited GBC in Jail….then again it could have been Bob (snr)….after all it is the time of the year to do our Tax and this guy had a business which dealt in Taxation and Accounting…..

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  75. Good morning Scubadiver, I should rephrase my sentence where I wrote…Kettering Services has something to do with Realestate….
    I should say ..I believe Kettering Services has something to do with realestate, I think it deals with a lot of businesses from what I have read…not sure though what they really do…maybe just advise people how to run their business….

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  76. millie on August 4, 2012 at 12:05 am, Brookfield Agencies has an office next to the little convenience store right next door to the Brookfield Showgrounds. There’s a hairdresser as well, all the shopfronts have been there for many many years. Hope this helps.

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