Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 9


The Allison Baden-Clay Murder

The Allison Baden-Clay Murder

 

All previous threads and history including trial can be found clicking on link below http://aussiecriminals.com.au/category/gerard-baden-clay/

List of Trial Witnesses as they appear here

ANY EVIDENCE LIKE PHOTOS, VIDEO OR DOCUMENTS THE COURT RELEASES TO THE PUBLIC WILL BE PUBLISHED in the GBC Documents Page

For an exclusive look at the sites the jury maybe looking at today head over to our Very Own photographer “GerryRocks” snaps here folks

The trial resumes on Tuesday 10am folks

Day 9: Gerard Baden-Clay on trial accused of murdering wife Allison

Baden-Clay murder trial: Scientist tells court Allison did not drown, MP Bruce Flegg describes $400,000 loan request

Updated 1 hour 10 minutes ago

A scientist appearing at the murder trial of Gerard Baden-Clay has given expert evidence that Allison, whose body was found on a creek bank, did not drown.

Baden-Clay, 43, a former real estate agent, has pleaded not guilty in the Supreme Court to killing his wife in April 2012.

The body of the 43-year-old mother of three was found on a creek bank under a bridge by a kayaker about 10 kilometres from the couple’s Brookfield home, 10 days after she was reported missing.

Giving evidence by telephone, microscopic algae expert Dr Jacob John told the court he was given water samples from Kholo Creek, the site where Allison was found, as well as parts of her liver and bone.

Dr John said the water sample carried “a bloom” of diatoms (microscopic algae).

Given diatoms can remain in the bone marrow, Dr John said they would have provided “inevitable evidence for drowning”.

“If she [Allison] had drowned in the water, I would definitely expect to see a couple of species of diatoms,” he said, adding that he was unable to find any signs of the algae in the organ samples provided.

“My straight conclusion is that … the subject concerned did not drown in Kholo Creek or anywhere,” he said.

Also giving evidence at the trial today was Associate Professor James Wallman, a forensic entomologist from New South Wales.

Professor Wallman told the court, via telephone, he was sent samples from police to identify insect specimens, to see if he could establish a minimum time since the death of Allison and also determine whether her body had been submerged in the creek.

He said he was given fly eggs, fly maggots, adult flies and adult beetles which were found on Allison’s body.

Professor Wallman said the growth of the insects implied it was at least three to four days since death, adding that slow temperatures could slow down growth, which “could be” consistent with the victim being dead for 11 days.

Unlike Dr John, Professor Wallman could not determine whether the victim had drowned.

“I couldn’t reach a conclusion one way or the other,” he said.

MP Bruce Flegg tells of request for $400K loan

Earlier today, former Queensland Government minister Bruce Flegg told the court Gerard Baden-Clay had asked him for a loan of $400,000.

Last Thursday, Susanne Heath, a friend of the MP, testified that Baden-Clay had asked if Dr Flegg could lend him about $300,000.

Dr Flegg told the court this morning of a meeting with Baden-Clay in mid-December 2011, where the accused said he needed to raise $400,000.

He said Baden-Clay had told him he was not looking for an equity partner and wanted a loan.

Dr Flegg told the court Baden-Clay said he owed money to his business partners who were leaving.

He also told the court he has known Baden-Clay for a number of years and their relationship was “very friendly”.

Dr Flegg said he had some social contact with Baden-Clay, mainly through Chamber of Commerce and Christmas functions.

He told the court that in March 2012 he had a message from Baden-Clay to call, but he was busy so he got Ms Heath to call the accused.

Dr Flegg said Ms Heath told him Baden-Clay again asked for money.

He said he later called Baden-Clay and told the accused that Ms Heath had relayed his response to the request.

Dr Flegg said Baden-Clay’s loan request “was probably out of the ordinary, but not dramatically left field”.

When asked if Baden-Clay had ever asked for money on other occasions, Dr Flegg replied: “No, no.”

Dr Flegg heard a ‘female scream’

Dr Flegg also said on the night of April 19, 2012, he heard what he would describe as a female scream.

“I’m quite certain it was a female voice,” he said.

“It was a single, reverse crescendo in volume, tapering off, and what I would describe as having an involuntary quality.

 

“[The scream] very strongly suggested a reduced level of consciousness.”

Dr Flegg said he heard exactly the same sound about two to three minutes later.

He said he had no doubt about what he heard, but was not sure about how far away it was.

Dr Flegg said he was on the phone to Ms Heath when heard the scream, with his phone showing it to be 10:58pm.

“I said, ‘did you hear that?'” he told the court.

Dr Flegg said he went out the front door to see if something was around his house.

“I heard nothing else that evening and that’d probably be the case most evenings,” he said.

Under cross-examination, Dr Flegg said his house was at least one kilometre from the Baden-Clay home.

Dr Flegg told the court he “would be extremely surprised” if the noises he heard came from Baden-Clay home.

Friends speak of loans made to Baden-Clay

Friend Robert Cheesman told the court he lent Baden-Clay $90,000 to help him with his business.

“The business was clearly in trouble but I saw it had a way out,” Mr Cheesman said.

Mr Cheesman said there was meant to be a formal agreement but they never got around to it.

He said Baden-Clay was meant to pay 10 per cent interest and that he got interest payments for three or four months.

Mr Cheesman said he never got the principal sum back and by April 2012, Baden-Clay still owed him $90,000.

Mr Cheesman also said he had not known about his friend’s affair with Toni McHugh.

Under cross-examination, Mr Cheesman said for the first six months, he approved every expense that went out of the business.

“Personally [Baden-Clay] was secure, but the businesses was where his risk was,” Mr Cheesman said.

Another friend of Baden-Clay, Stuart Christ, told the court their children went to same school.

“We’ve been very close over the years, but in recent years probably not as close,” Mr Christ said.

The court heard Mr Christ and his wife lent Baden-Clay $90,000 in 2011 because his business was not going so well.

Mr Christ said they paid the money into Gerard and Allison’s joint bank account.

He said Baden-Clay was due to pay the $90,000 principal, plus $90,000 in interest, and that they received three payments.

Mr Christ was asked if he was aware of Gerard Baden-Clay’s relationship with Ms McHugh.

“I was not,” he replied.

Mr Christ said he may have met Ms McHugh, but did not recall her.

He told the court Allison became more involved in the business in late 2011 “and that gave us a lot of comfort”.

Mr Christ said Gerard Baden-Clay asked for more money at various times in mid-2011, but he never gave it.

He also said he was aware of Allison’s depression.

Mr Christ said sometimes Allison would answer the door, sometimes not.

“[It was] no big deal, it was Allison,” he said.

Meanwhile, Peter Cranna testified he has been a friend of Baden-Clay for over 20 years and they were in each other’s bridal parties.

Mr Cranna said he lent Baden-Clay $45,000, $12,000, $50,000, $24,000 and $19,000, between February 2006 and February 2011.

He told the court as of April 2012 Baden-Clay owed him $96,000.

Mr Cranna also said he never knew Ms McHugh and only found out about the affair after Allison went missing.

148 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 9

  1. It seems the general gist of the Christ evidence is that the business was like most small businesses…..difficult, and Allison was ‘up and down’ on her Meds.

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    • awwww….crap, I never checked the time…12:01….the lunch break!

      I’ve been washing the front of the house down getting ready to paint….honest !…a very confronting Mid Grey amongst all of the oh so 2013 browns and sands.

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    • I would say Allison was up and down as 2011 is when she was told her husband was having an affair and she the confronted him. How do you think she would feel in 2011 walking into work knowing that the staff all knew about the affair with one of his then staff members ?

      Under the circumstances I think Allison held herself together rather well !!

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      • Well said, Jessy. She was a sensitive woman, so it would have been extra difficult for her, as you say, going back to the office knowing what she did — and knowing everyone else knew also. Yet those in the office at that time have said she was ‘upbeat, positive, friendly, smiling’. That’s courage for you. Same sort of grit that took her from the suburbs to the successes she’d already achieved prior to marrying GBC. And she was still holding dance classes for the kiddies and doing stints at the tuck-shop, taking courses to help her regain a career, doing the housework, picking up the children and dropping them off at school, staying in touch with friends, etc. etc. She was worth a hundred of GBC, that’s for sure

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        • BR, how does bottling emotions detract from being courageous? It could be said that I’m good or you’re good at bottling emotions too. Doesn’t change how I would respond in the same situation. Sometimes a little diplomacy goes a long way. Sometimes bottling things up instead of publicly losing your sh*t is a good thing. My opinion only.

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          • LJC

            We all (or mostly all of us) bottle our emotions up. Shrinks call it “Building a wall to protect yourself”. The only issue is that one day the wall will come crashing down through the sheer weight of what’s behind it.

            I think* that’s why the sistahood usually suggests “Kicking that ass out the door” before the wall crashes.

            • I could be very wrong with what goes through the mind of the sistahood….in fact I’ve actually got no idea what does.:-)

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            • I know we (mostly) all do it… And I concur with the ‘kick him to the curb’ scenario but I think in reality it’s a lot easier to say than to do :) I really wonder if that’s what sparked the events of the 19th actually. Maybe Allison found the strength somewhere in all the chaos to say ‘no more’…just throwing things out there. We’ll never know, of course. Unless someone grows a conscience!

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              • LCJ

                I’d say there’s a fair chance to your theory.

                Between all of the Quacks she’d been seeing….the girlfriend who was keen to ‘advise her’ and constantly having Toni McH rattling around inside her head, she’d probably decided to take it all a step further (probably accounts for the scratch marks).

                I’d say that’s when your ‘chaos’ theory started. That’s also why I think he’s good for Unlawful Killing…..just not Murder.

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                • I still beg to differ though, BR. It’s my opinion (and only that!!) that this was pre-meditated for a later time and stuff happened to bring it about sooner. So it was planned but at the same time, because all hell broke loose early, unplanned to a degree. Yup. A day in court has addled my brain but you get my point I hope.

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                  • We’re all entitled to our opinions LJC.

                    The only problem is that any ‘pre meditation’ is lacking in the evidence department.

                    They both had financial worries…so did half of Queensland at the time of those floods.

                    He’d had a mistress for a long time…which didn’t seem to be going anywhere other than a stray……well, you know what I mean.

                    There’s nobody to say that he was desperate to get away from Allison. Apart from some half baked pillow talk with Toni McH….which she’d heard before.

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                    • I know there’s the small problem of evidence and it’s just a shame my gut feeling (or anyone’s for that matter) can’t be called to the stand.

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              • It does raise the next question though.

                If she only raised the strength to say “No more”.

                Why wasn’t GBC’s response…..”Cool”. (and on the next bus to T McH’s place)

                It appears that the “No more” may have come with a bit more ferocity from all of those pent up emotions.

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                • I do suspect I know the answer to this having come across something almost a carbon copy of him but it’s going to take up a lot more space than anyone cares to read about. So I’ll just say it the simplest way I can. He’s a narcissist. From a long line of Bwana wannabes. He carefully constructed a public image of morality and ‘all round good guy’ and ‘go-getter’. She was going to blow that out of the water. She threatened the one thing he cared about. His image. When narcissists are threatened, they come out fighting. And they’ll stop at nothing to stop the truth from coming out. I wish I was making this stuff up but I’m not. I’ve experienced it first hand. All the signs are there. It scares the bejeezus out of me that there’s a chance he’ll walk the streets again.

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                  • Yeah…I don’t know if he’s a true Narcissist. I’ve met a very dangerous diagnosed Narcissist and the one thing they can’t do is turn it off….because of the nature of Narcissism.

                    It doesn’t mean that he hasn’t got some Narcissistic tendencies…..many people do and it is fairly normal behaviour. Like all things it’s just the degree.

                    From all the witnesses to date*, everyone who’s had much to do with him reckons he’s a nice bloke. A true Narcissist would be seen through very quickly.
                    (*Apart from the In-Laws which we can understand….but they didn’t even seem to really spend much time there)

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                    • Then he’s a high functioning sociopath. The narcissist I know, who (like yours) is very dangerous, is regarded as the nicest bloke in the world by most people who know him. Generous to a fault, seems humble, seems to have good morals… but it’s all a bunch of BS. It’s a carefully constructed web of lies. Narcissist, sociopath… both. I don’t know. But he’s somewhere on that spectrum. Everyone is narcissistic to a point but not everybody kills their wife then covers it up with careful (or not so careful) lies and misdirection. But we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one! :)

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                    • Jeez…I hope I don’t get skinnier and fall through a crack in the screen !

                      The diagnosed Narcissist I know exudes Narcissism…you can’t mistake it.

                      His Narcsissim is why he’s done 22 years inside and will not be released.

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                    • Hahaha… Thanks BB… I LOVE your posts… I look forward to reading them each day because I know you tell it like it is. No holds barred! :)

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    • Well, we know the facts behind the abbreviated tweets, don’t we?

      We know GBC was borrowing from all and sundry, despite his poor partners stating in their witness-statements that during on period of less than a year, $700,000 was accrued in commissions alone, if memory serves. And the partners saw little to nothing of that, apparently. GBC only took on those partners on the understanding they would pay out some of his existing debts — and that was during the boom. So where did all the money go ? Maybe forensic accounting will fill the jury’s questions in on that score a bit later

      As to ‘meds’, seems GBC is the one who should have been on meds — having affairs all over the place, borrowing from all and sundry and not repaying and from the sound of it, that was going on all the way through

      They lived in rented accommodation. Mr. Motivator Real-estate guru didn’t even put money aside for a deposit on a family home in fifteen long years. And not too many luxuries in the home. Bullying his children, as reported in witness statements which might still be made known to the jury. Sulking etc. because his wife bought a walking-machine when at the same time he was big-noting himself by taking staff and mistresses to interstate junkets while his poor wife remained at home with the children

      For the life of me can’t understand why his father the marriage-facilitator and all those mediators, counsellors and psychiatrists didn’t recommend to GBC that he get himself on the couch and under medication, because it’s clear where and with whom all the problems lay. And they didn’t begin with marriage to Allison, who in fact was used as a stepping-stone for Mr. Abitious. He was travelling under phony accreditation, wasn’t he, when he was helped into a joy with the big accounting firm? Then he was kicked out of Thomas Cook, wasn’t he? Then he pushed Allison to travel overseas for work, during which time he sloped around the scounting movement, didn’t he, playing ‘ Mr. Big I’m Descended from Baden Powell Yoohoo For Me’

      So he couldn’t make a success when an employee of successful companies

      And he couldn’t make a success as self-employed

      Couldn’t make a success of his marriage

      Couldn’t even make a success of his affairs

      I’ve no doubt at all in my mind that GBC should have been on meds and receiving treatment all along for personality disorders, one of which, in my unqualified opinion being delusions of grandeur and ridiculous degree of entitlement — to which I would add: ‘stupid, incompetent, liar, deceitful, immature, conceited, lazy, bullying, cowardly, full of it and effeminate’ imo

      When asked about his wife’s medication by the first-responding officers on the early morning of the 20th April, GBC replied they’d been tapered right down to the point he couldn’t even say if she was still taking medication. Way too much being made in some quarters about Allison’s ‘medication’. In a large forum dedicated to this case, almost every second member has stated they are on the exact same medication as Allison was on. And they say they’ve been on it for years.

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  2. Gerryrocks — thank you for the photos. Even though I’ve never seen the side of the bridge in real life, it’s very much the way I envisaged it, including the steepness. News reports said, at the time of discovery of the body, that it was very overgrown, also that police were cutting a lot of it back, once the body had been removed and (my guess) after the forensics people had done all they could. There was a photo in one of the news reports, showing some of the overgrowth and grass to be waist to shoulder height. I think police cut it in order to do a more thorough search of the ground beneath the undergrowth. Your photos show that a lot of it has not grown back in the two years since, lots of sparse and bare areas. It would have been a lot more difficult to get down there, back in 2012, especially in the dark

    Yesterday I posted a couple of photos I found on Google, taken shortly after Allison’s remains had been discovered. I think the photo urls are at the bottom of page 8 or maybe page 7. One shows where the body was lying with a policeman lower down. And the other is an overhead view of that end of the bridge — it shows there’s a bit of a lay-by where a vehicle could have been driven in, and there’s a bit of coverage there from vegetation. Imo, only someone familiar with that area would have known to go to that particular spot. In one of the newspapers it said the Kholo bridge was a 20 minute drive from the GBC house, so quite substantial

    Thanks again, Gerryrocks :-)

    and hope Moonraker is recovering well :-)

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      • Hi Jessy :-) Took a while to find everyone. Yesterday I must have been on the wrong page all day. Not many posts, so I thought everyone must be having a bit of a break. Today, went to wrong page again. Lots more posts. Then, noticed they were mostly dated the 23rd. So off on search of you guys again and finally landed here :-)

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        • so pleased you found us BB, I was beginning to think I was talking to myself on here LOL.
          Oh sorry, I forgot to mention my friend BR who was so kind to chat with me, however he did forget to put the time on one of his posts :) and the other post I’m sure he took a wee break :)

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          • Jessy, very early on here, back in 2012, a few Brookfield insiders said that quite a few of the local ladies were sweet on GBC – what, with his Chamber of Commerce self-promotion and the church, the school, the scouts, etc. Oh, and of course back then a lot of people were under the impression he was successful and well-off, due to The Name, the tv-commercials, etc. So he probably featured in the fantasies of quite a few women — and men — who’re still reluctant to surrender their dreeeeeeeeems :-)

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  3. Professor Drummer says he would have expected much higher levels of sertrolene if Allison had overdosed, in response to defence flogging it’s dead ‘suicide’ angle. IMO, defence is trying like crazy to establish in minds of jurors that suicide angle. Again imo, the jurors realize defence is running on empty, particularly in light of all the other witness testimonies and evidence

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  4. Expert at trial says in typical drowning case, diatoms are often quoted as being typical drowning evidence. No diatoms in the liver or bone of Allison

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  5. New expert giving evidence as to river and creek heights and flow. Said he’d examined the depression where Allison’s body had lain. He returned to same place the following day – the depression was basically the same. He does not believe tidal or other waters would have been sufficient to move Allison’s body

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    • Wasn’t it someone who passed it along to Allison after learning about it from someone at the school tuck-shop? Might have been Day One through to Day Three of the trial. Her name was stated in the media. In online forums, most people were saying that is one gutsy lady

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    • Took a while to find, although I think it’s in the list of witnesses that Robbo posted. I didn’t know the name though

      Here’s the media report:

      *Wendy Mollah testified she met Ms Baden-Clay at Brookfield State School, where they had children in the same class, and they became close friends.

      “She was a wonderful, wonderful mother. That’s mostly what we talked about, the children. Most of her time was spent with them,” Ms Mollah said.

      Ms Mollah became aware of Baden-Clay’s affair and told Allison, who said she was going to talk to her husband.

      “I had a call from her a couple of hours later to tell me that she had done that. She asked me would I come around to the home, which I did do, to talk with her and support her,” Ms Mollah said*

      Source: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-badenclay-told-employees-his-wife-was-aware-of-affair-with-former-staff-member/story-fnihsrf2-1226951278132

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    • She was told by a friend of one of GBC’s former Business Partners, at the Tuck Shop at the School the Girls were attending. The have named the Business Partner, but not the person who advised Allison.

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  6. Defence just plodding along unspectacularly – usual gambit – trying to cast doubt on testimony of expert witnesses

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  7. Thank you, Director of Queensland Herbarium, who has just advised the court (and carefully listening jury members) that of the six varieties of plants discovered on Allison’s body, only two were common to both the Kholo site and the GBC house. This means four of the plants could not have come from the Kholo site and must have come from the house

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  8. Bam! crepe mertle growing all around the house, also cats claw… none at Kholo. Things finially start to get interesting. GBC nether reigions start to pucker. I hope the bastard is squirming in his seat… maybe even ironically wetting himself….

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  9. Can anyone explain to me why the Live Reports on the case on online media are added to at the top, rather than the bottom.

    Such makes reading particularly difficult. You wouldn’t read a book by starting at the last chapter and reading each chapter backwards until your reach the beginning, so why do the media think such is a logical way to present the days witness testimony ?

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      • Thanks, Robbo and well done :-)

        Just had a read of Robbo’s Diary for today. Had to skip the part about infestation of the body. But was so interested in GBCs generous group of friends. Guess TM and GBC must have kept their hands to themselves when GBCs generous buddies were around, eh? Unusual that GBC didn’t have a boast and snigger about TM (about whom he told his then-partner – as stated in the witness statement — that he was only bonking TM for the sake of the business) to his buddies. Such upstanding guys. Such loyalty. Such generosity. Such discretion

        Oh — and although one was insistent he loaned a chunk of cash to both GBC and Allison — he then went on to disclose to the court that Allison was not present at the money-lending chin-wags. Little woman was banished to the other end of the house, was she?

        What a load of ….

        If I were a member of the jury, I’d be regarding everything said by GBC’s generous and loyal money-lending buddies with utmost scepticism, no matter how well rehearsed – in my opinion

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      • Great work with your library Robbo!

        Testimonials provided today give me new confidence in the prosecution…. i was getting worried about where this was all going. ..

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        • Thanks me, the trial or any trial is a chain,each part a link, that in isolation may not seem strong but linked together make a pretty strong chain. Especially in circumstantial cases when it all comes together…

          I’m happy with how the case is going,the defence is doing what they are paid to do, find any cracks in each link like a quality control inspector. Cheers

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  10. I have a theory based on experience about the jumper pulled up – argument getting a bit physical with a push, slap or scratch on finding out the affair was still on and all counseling etc a farce – male tries to disarm female by yanking jumper up over females head to trap her arms next to her head – screAm – hand over mouth or arm around mouth, head and arms until struggling stops…..
    Same source as the NBC “kiss” to cover wife’s mouth (prevent lip reading by reporters) no affection, another for of bullying
    Just saying

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  11. Just having a look at where Flegg lives. Now it’s mainly acreage out there so not a lot of houses to “block” sounds. But in saying that Boscombe Rd that is directly opposite A & G’s house is a hill. They are at the bottom of that hill. Not sure about this but my way of thinking is it would bounce back not climb a hill…does that sound logical?

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    • Don’t know, Kenmoremum. Can’t work Flegg out, although imo, self-preservation would be paramount with him

      Maybe he thinks he’s slick — so slick he slips right in it. Will have to wait to see (and wait for the smarter ones to post here and give us their view)

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    • Yes, she was and still is a good friend to Allison :-) Poor Wendy Mollah was placed in the sort of position which would make most people quake. On one hand believing Allison had the right to know, especially since half the world had known for ages. On the other hand, not wanting to deal her friend Allison a body-blow. Not a situation any of us would want to be in

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  12. Had a read of today’s court a while ago in Robbo’s Diary. Seems weirdy-odd to me, all these non-secured private loans. Am I correct in interpreting the Generous-Buddies’ testimony in court today to mean that they each loaned GBC in the region of $90,000 – on the understanding that they would each received from GBC approx. $180,000 each in return?

    Then one of them said GBC’s business was limited liability, so the generous buddies were of the belief that even if that business went bankrupt and/or deep in debt, it would not harm GBC’s private finances?

    What private finances? He owned no property, or at least non that’s been referred to in court or by the media. And Allison had only $20 to her name when she was murdered with GBC unable to pay his or Allison’s insurance or phone bills

    What did the generous buddies know or believe as regards GBC’s personal monies? Were they assured he had monies which could not be touched even if the business was bankrupt and deep in debt?

    I’m wondering more and more about the $700,000 mentioned in one of the partners statement. The partner said he and the other partner had repeatedly asked/demanded to see the figures and just as often were brushed off by GBC

    Does GBC have hidden assets?

    Just as importantly, if GBC had collected on Allison’s insurance, would that have been off-limits when those to whom he owed money demanded payment?

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  13. Not sure if the headlines should read
    Leave(s) It To Gerard!!

    Or

    We’ve Always Got Gerard’s Interest At Heart – 100%, not 10% Interest!

    A great day for the prosecution and the supporters of Allison!

    Was lovely to meet LJC2013 and also Jessy (who found a purple person and started talking to them (the person was actually my friend) but they were female not male).

    Can I just say that LJC2013 has the neatest hand writing, even taking notes! LJC2013 a lot of notes today, she’ll hopefully post her thoughts…she was a court virgin today!!

    Was a surprise to see Adam Baden Clay has flown in from Canada, hmmm I guess when the best chance you’ve got of visiting /seeing your brother for any length of time is through a glass window pain whilst he’s in the dock you might as well get on that plane!

    Oh and how strange now TV camera in front of NBC & EBC when leaving this arvo, so there’s no need to hold each other’s hand. It’s not in the script :)

    Finally THANK YOU to everyone for their kind comments on my photos. I think I achieved what I always try to do in any of my photographic work, make the viewer feel like they’re there!

    Rock ON!

    Gerry

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      • Quoting Gerry: Correction – It should read Oh and how strange not a TV camera in front of NBC & EBC when leaving this arvo, so there’s no need to hold each other’s hand


        I wondered about that, seeing how camera-addicted the BCs seem to be

        Now I’m understanding what you meant. So much false, huh?

        And then back to Skull Manor with mere hours before the next day in court. Couldn’t happen to nicer folk. And good of GBC to put them all through it, to say nothing of what he’s putting his children and in-laws through — or the public which pays for all of it

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    • Brilliant all ’round, Gerry :-)

      Glad some of our gang got to meet each other !

      If I were related to GBC, I would have gone to Tahiti for the duration ! And that’s after changing that dodgy name :-)

      So maybe Little Bro is on the witness list?

      Whatever. His problem

      Love your comments, love your photographic talents and generosity — love your work 100%

      Thanks for being our eyes and ears, Gerry :-)

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    • Hi Gerryrocks, it wasn’t me you met a Court yesterday as I wasn’t in Brisbane. I wish it was me though as I would have loved to be there. :)

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  14. There needs to be a campaign to remind people that being a ‘reserved’ person, doesn’t mean you’re depressed!

    In court I feel like throwing my shoe at those (friends of the BC’s) in the witness box who want to continually talk down Allison’s character. A witness today used the word’s reserved and depressed / depression in same sentence grrrrrr!!

    Liked by 1 person

    • I found it quite surprising that the money men didn’t really know her…only one of them. But Cheesman I think it was went to school with Gerard. Wouldn’t you think he’d introduce his beautiful wife & partner to them. I know all my hubby’s business associates & I don’t work with him.

      Like

    • Gerryrocks — save your shoes. Not worth it. It’s all they have. Allison wasn’t having affairs. She wasn’t gallivanting up and down. She wasn’t being drunk all over the place. She wasn’t chomping on magic-mushrooms or cocaine. She wasn’t running the credit-cards into deep red. She wasn’t holding wild parties. She wasn’t neglecting the children. She wasn’t brutally beating poor GBC. She wasn’t running around like a mad brumby on the BCs neigbours’ lawns. She wasn’t in court every second day for driving offences. She wasn’t defacing herself with year-old razors. She wasn’t begging every second person for massive loans. She wasn’t being disloyal or unfaithful to her spouse even once, let alone multiple affairs. She wasn’t sticking her nose into the business or insulting the staff. She wasn’t unpleasant to those people who loved her like a daughter-in-law. She wasn’t telling GBC he was fat or berating him for not giving her the son he wanted for continuation of The Legacy. She didn’t even insist on sitting-in on the money-lenders’ chin-wags with her husband. She didn’t rifle the family funds or disappear it because when that lovely woman died, she had only $20 dollars to her name

      Claiming she was ‘reserved’ is ALL they have

      and it will bite them all hard

      So keep your shoes on. Don’t waste them

      Liked by 2 people

      • 5 stars to you BB!!! What a brilliant post!! You actually brought a lump to my throat. :'( you forgot to add….& she still wanted to be married to him & make the marriage work!!!

        Like

  15. I think todays evidence did more to prove that Alison did not die at Kholo Creek and prove a murder occurred at her evidence.

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  16. At Burleigh Beach’s suggestion I went to have a look at the Death Certificate (which wasn’t there)…but anyhoo….I found the Autopsy Report by the Qld Health Forensic Pathologist and peer reviewed by 2 other Senior Pathologists.

    The result of the Autopsy Report makes it’s way to the actual Death Certificate…so no biggie there.

    What was interesting is that the Autopsy Report finds the cause of death as…..”Undetermined”.

    They (the Qld Health Forensic Pathologist and the 2 Peer Reviewers) don’t rule out the cause of death being…
    1. Alcohol and/or Drug toxicity.
    2. Drowning (with Diatom testing)
    3. A fall from the bridge (where she herself may have moved under the railing)
    4. A combined effect of all of them.

    The Place of Death is also “Undetermined”

    I can now see why the DPP has shopped around the countryside for other Experts (at a substantial Fee for Services rate.)

    Like

      • Sorry about that. Must have been someone else. Hard to find it backwards through everything.

        I mentioned that I assumed the Death Certificate showed ‘Unknown’ for the cause of death and this now mystery poster said I should go and read it for myself to find out the actual truth.

        So…I cast my bone laziness aside and went looking for it and found the Autopsy Report (No Death Certificate)
        AND LO AND BEHOLD IT SAID…….(drum roll…..)

        “UNDETERMINED”

        I knew I shouldn’t have mistreated my laziness so badly !! I got had !

        Like

    • LOL Little Miss Curious — lovely note-taking. Went over to the link you’ve posted and admired the artful way they’re displayed. Couldn’t read them even with my magnifying specs on, so obviously need to go somewhere else to read them. But thank you for all your hard work and glad you and Gerryrocks met up although after your comment about that purple puffer jacket, maybe next time Gerry can wear another colour for people to recognise him by or the media-pack might get the wrong impression and include the pair of you in footage with the you-know-whos :-)

      Like

      • Haha, don’t worry BB, I’m in the process of typing up the notes so unless you’re nocturnal like me they’ll probably be your breakfast reading material!! :)

        And oh lord, can you imagine… me, a 6 foot Amazon woman in all black (which smacks of ‘depression’) and Gerry in purple barely coming up to my chin… being slotted into the news footage as members of the BC support team shakes head

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    • Hi LJC, absolutely brilliant !! You sure do have a talent in writing. Read your blog about ex friend and was totally blown away. Keep up the good work. cheers

      Like

    • I thought so pinkshoes, from what little I could see of him on the screen. I had to squint because he was tiny. He perked up when the scientists started coming onto the stand and over the phone. Sat there with his head tilted to one side as opposed to the usual stoic ‘hands laced and staring straight ahead’… Gerryrocks tells me he sits that way everyday. If it was my freedom on the line I think I’d be showing a bit more interest but he’s probably be warned by his lawyers not to,,, (maybe)?

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      • LJC, did anyone in that family react to the post-mortem insect infestation re: Allison’s remains? It was too much for me to handle today so I can’t begin to imagine what that testimony would have been like for those who knew and loved Allison

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        • It was the same story as with GBC, BB. The screen is really small AND it’s split up to focus on 4 different sections of the courtroom. So it’s really hard to see facial expressions etc. Gerry said usually the Dickies walk out when images of the body are shown but I don’t think they did today (Gerry, can you confirm?)… The testimony about the insect infestation was certainly sobering, I can tell you that much. My heart was aching at that point for how this poor woman ended up. No one deserves to be left that way. I’ll post about the thing that affected me most about the testimony in the blog to save going through it twice here. Bear with me :)

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  17. Robbo, I think I have lost my way………It is a shame that our posts are disjointed as it is easy to lose the thread of things but also I think this leads to the same information being posted separately. Am I making any sense, you know same date, but different threads.

    Of course, this is NOT A CRITICISM, as the sight is valuable. Even the Courier Mail has changed their format so they must have liked the way you do things :-)

    Like

  18. Hey there Robbo, or someone, could you post your/his email address. I saw it a couple of days ago but too tired to look back through the different threads.
    Sorry if I sound lazy. Thank you.

    Like

    • Hello BB :) I’ve Been having issues finding the latest entries. I don’t think my iPad likes blogs or visa- versa, either that or the site is having issues?
      I’m thinking of going in to court on Thursday for a gander :)

      Liked by 1 person

  19. And Former Police Officer Pentridge — anyone heard from him? Haven’t heard from him for ages. Hope all is well ….

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    • Hi BB he does go for little breaks I note. Maybe off to the tropics for some R & R every now and then. Melbourne can get pretty cold this time of year.

      It is funny though I’m watching Hewit at Wimbledon and the poor folks court side waving fans newspapers and things to keep cool in the extreme 20 degree heatwave….Haha

      Come to the OZ open people, 40 degrees plus last few years every day week 1.

      Like

  20. Was really disappointed to read report of hydrologist and engineer Martin Giles today. Thought this could have been as powerful as plant matter/botanist evidence until, under cross examination, Mr Giles agreed he based his calculations on maps and not measurements he made of the sites. Why the heck did he not get down and dirty at the site with studies and photos carried out over days? An important piece of evidence (essentially saying that the body did not get washed down stream) ended up being totally watered down (no pun intended) imo.

    Like

    • Because that’s what you get when you go “Expert Shopping”, which the DPP did to negate the string of ‘possibilities’ in the Forensic Patholgists/s report that was conducted at the Lab as well as on site. His favourable…..gosh, who woulda thought…..’report’ probably cost $10k or so. (thanks to the good old Aussie tax payer)

      It’s an Industry pure and simple.

      You’d hope for the sort of money he would have charged for his ‘Report’ he might have at least done a drive by from his office at Milton.

      Paid “Experts” know the ropes…..they want to get more well paying ‘Report’ jobs, but also know that another well paid “Expert” could come along and trash their work if they go over the top……so they’re stuck between the rock and the hard place of wanting to be the “Go To Guy”, but not wanting to get bumped off the Gravy Train if they go a bit silly……so, why bother driving the 10 k’s or so out to the bridge to even look at the lay of the land when you’ve got a perfectly good map on the wall above the coffee machine.

      Like

      • Yes, I see what you mean. Apparently he did go thee twice but just to view from a small distance. The place where the body lay had an indentation and a month later it was still he says. I’d like to have seen time lapse photos (low and high tide, wet weather etc) with a marker in place. Plus, with such evidence, he could have responded more definitively to the defence’s question about another parallel mark in the mud bank, which was above the ABC body line, as possibly being a high tide mark. A missed opportunity imo.

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        • Yes ML, that’s the problem with paid (by one side) Experts. They’ll just never produce a warts ‘n all report……like the Govt Pathologist report, which isn’t afraid to say….”This is difficult”.

          I just heard on the radio that the paid Plant guy will be cross examined today. His evidence was pretty forthright.

          It’ll be interesting to see how he holds up. When I read his evidence and his ‘surveys’ they apparently were a walk along a track and then the creek bank for a short distance looking for the plants. No mention of leaves being blown…floating down the creek (the Hydrologist admitted that the water ‘may have lapped’ at her.)

          I’d assume that Michael Byrne has got a few probing questions for him. I know that I’ve got leaves in my yard from trees that I don’t grow.

          I wonder how many people in the area that have properties that back onto the creek have got Crepe Myrtle and Cats Claw down near the creek bank. He doesn’t mention ‘surveying’ them.

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          • hi BR, exactly what I was thinking yesterday when Dr Guymer was on the stand. I was waiting for GBC’s Legals to question the fact that leaves could have washed down the creek or blown from far away.

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            • Hello Jessy
              Yes, he seems to have painted himself into a bit of a corner with being a bit too enthusiastic trying to ‘help’.

              As soon as he attempts to explain leaves and their characteristics when ‘floating’ (which is bound to come) I’d imagine the next question will be “And what is your expertise in Hydrology”….or whatever that ‘expertise’ is.

              Followed by…”Do you have it or not”

              That’s when the lip trembling usually starts, when he’s reminded he’s giving evidence under oath.

              Like

        • What you mention about placing markers (i.e. not placing them) etc is what will probably weaken his evidence. Most lay people (like me) need the visuals otherwise the first thing that comes through their head is “Why didn’t he do…….” which creates the doubt in what he’s saying.

          It’s also got to sound believable. That’s what struck me about the Botanist…..he was too adamant about the dead leaves not being anywhere in the area. When anyone who’s ever had to rake leaves in their life would find that evidence a little too ‘strained’.

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  21. Hi everyone, love all your posts, to many to reply to so I”ll just say “thank you all and thank you LJC and Gerryrocks for taking the time to go to Court and support Allison’s family and friends. I would so love to go to court ” however not possible as I have Grandchildren to take care of.
    Great to see you back with us Katikutloose.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Bella, day 10 is open now :)

      I haven’t had any probs with posting in here at all ?
      I read a lot of your post, however they seem to be a day or so behind. Maybe try posting in the relevant day may help., hope so :)

      Like

      • Hi jessy — can’t see Day 10 no matter how I look. Under Gerard Baden Clay trial, I see Days One to Nine, and then below that only ‘Gerard Baden Clay History’

        Like

    • Hi Brissiebella – great to see you back — temporarily as you say. I can’t find Day Ten anywhere either. I’ll look back later ..

      Anyway, take care Brissiebella :-)

      Like

  22. I actually wonder what the families think about the hordes of people that turn up at celebrity trials (for want of a better term….I’m still sleepy) to listen to all the gory details.

    I suppose that some may see it as ‘support’, but they wouldn’t know these people from Adam and now they’ve certainly turned up clambering and shoving for ring-side seats.

    I think I must be the bizarre one. I’d leave them in peace while they had to deal with it.

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  23. Robbo, I can’t find Day Ten on the Menu up the top. It only goes to Day Nine

    Worse — when I googled for this site, Day Ten, it took me to Bird’s Eye View

    So, Day Ten for your site is on Google, but anyone clicking on that will go to Bird’s Eye

    Like

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