Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 16

This is what these last days are about.Who is telling the truth, the facts, the most likely scenarios? WE need to apply this to everything we have heard


Defence counsel Michael Byrne’s submissions will be followed by prosecutor Todd Fuller and Justice John Byrne, who will sum up the case before the jury retires to consider its verdict.

All previous threads and history including trial can be found clicking on link below

List of Trial Witnesses as they appear here

IT is day 16 of the trial of former Brookfield real estate agent Gerard Baden-Clay, 43, who stands accused of murdering his wife Allison Baden-Clay, 43, on April 19, 2012.

Baden-Clay has pleaded not guilty in the Supreme Court in Brisbane.

9:45am: The 16th day of the trial is about to resume in Court 11.

Gerard Baden-Clay’s defence barrister Michael Byrne QC will end his closing address to the jury, before Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC begins his final address today.

* Mr Byrne said there are too many gaps in the Crown‘s circumstantial case against his client. He pointed to the lack of forensic evidence linking Mr Baden-Clay to the crime scene at Kholo Creek where his wife’s body was found. He also pointed to the lack of blood in the house and car port.

* Mr Byrne conceded Mr Baden-Clay had been a serial adulterer during his marriage but said his infidelity did not amount to evidence in the case against him.

* The defence again pointed to Mrs Baden-Clay’s history with depression to suggest she stepped out for a walk in the early hours of the morning of April 20, 2012, to “clear her head” and “at some time and for some reason” ended up in the river.

9:55am: The trial will again be broadcast into two other courtrooms, such is the high level of public interest in the case.The proceedings will be broadcast into the Banco Court which seats 147 people.

10:12am: Mr Byrne has resumed his closing address to the jury.

He displayed two PowerPoint slides to the court.

The first read: “Gerard Baden-Clay is presumed to be innocent. He may be convicted only if the prosecution establishes that he is guilty of the offence charged.”

The second read: “If you are left with a reasonable doubt about guilty, your duty is to acquit: that is, to find Gerard Baden-Clay not guilty.”

10:15am: Mr Byrne said Mr Baden-Clay was not the sort of man to kill his wife and mother of his children in “cold blood” and was not the type to “explode in anger”.He said his client was of good character despite his previous infidelity.
10:19am: Mr Baden-Clay is seated in the dock wearing a dark suit and tie and glasses.His sister Olivia Walton and brother Adam Baden-Clay are seated in the front row of the public gallery directly behind the dock.Allison Baden-Clay’s family and friends are seated on the opposite side of the public gallery with homicide detectives involved in the case.
10:24am: Mr Byrne has reminded the jury, again, to ignore what he has described as “sensationalist media coverage” of the trial.“Your task and indeed your duty, your sworn duty, is to ignore all that,” he said.”You’re not here to deliver a verdict based on what the media would like you to do …”Your duty is to return a true verdict according to the evidence and that is a simple proposition.”
10:27am: “Once you have dispassionately, objectively assessed the evidence – the whole of the evidence – you would not and you could not find Gerard Baden-Clay guilty of the murder of his wife,” Mr Byrne said.“There is no cause of death, there’s no motive that stands to scrutiny, there’s no realistic means of him doing the things the prosecution says were done by him as part of a scenario.”Mr Byrne said the Crown could not establish how Mr Baden-Clay violently killed his wife in a house with three young children, or how he transported the bodytoKholo Creek without leaving a trial.”The verdict on that evidence should be one of not guilty,” he said.”Thank you for your attention.”

10:28am: The defence rests.

10:28am: Prosecutor Todd Fuller QC has begun his closing address to the jury.The prosecution was effectively afforded the final say in the trial because Mr Baden-Clay decided to step into the witness box to adduce evidence.
10:31am: “Human behaviour is sometimes inexplicable,” Mr Fuller said.He said the Baden-Clays lived a facade.To the outside world, they were a happily married couple.In reality, both Mr and Mrs Baden-Clay were desperately unhappy.Mr Baden-Clay was embroiled in multiple affairs with different women throughout his marriage.

“He had an affair with a women in the office where his father worked,” Mr Fuller said.

“That shows you the level of deception. That shows you the level of bravado.

“He presented a number of faces to a number of different people, right up until his evidence in this trial.”

10:34am: Mr Fuller said Mr Baden-Clay reacted to the pressures in his life on the night of April 19, 2012.“What’s building on this man here? What’s changing in his life in the period we’re talking about here?” he asked.Mr Fuller said Mr Baden-Clay’s actions were a “reaction to a particular set of circumstances that accumulated over time, a set of circumstances that were in fact his own making”.
10:35am: Mr Fuller is standing away from the bar table and is pacing back and forth as he directly addresses the jury.
10:37am: Mr Fuller has turned his attention to the nature of the circumstantial case against Mr Baden-Clay.“It’s like a television picture,” he said.If you stand close to a television screen, you see a series of small dots, Mr Fuller said.”Step back and you see the full picture,” he said.
10:43am: Mr Fuller said the defence theory, once placed in context, could not be substantiated.“You’ve been led astray,” he said.
10:45am: The jury has taken its first 10 minute break for the morning.
10:56am Recap: Here is an excerpt of Mr Fuller’s closing address to the jury:

“Human behaviour … is sometimes inexplicable against the background of the rest of [a person’s] life, because of the pressures or circumstances that people find themselves in.

“It’s not unknown for a person of previous apparent good character to step outside that character and do something that perhaps they never contemplated doing before.

“My friend has spoken about possibilities, opportunities, they happen everyday in our lives.

“We’re programmed from the way that we view the world to have expectations about how somebody should behave.

“But that’s one of the reasons why you’re here. Through your experience of people, of relationships, of behaviours, you see people step outside their characters.

“You have appreciation of how people under pressures sometimes react, because a criminal trial is not a computer program ladies and gentlemen. It’s not about us putting all of the data in, putting it through some algorithm and checking out the result at the end. And the simple reason for that – because it involves people.

“You’re participating in a process to determine if this man here has killed his wife.

“That is, that he unlawfully killed her without a justification, excuse … or authorisation … and that he did it with an intention.”

11:00am: The jury has returned and Mr Fuller has resumed his closing address.He has asked the jury to consider the evidence from the eyes of Mr Baden-Clay.
11:04am: “What does Allison tell us in death?” Mr Fuller asked.“Let’s start with where her body was found. You can safely conclude, in my submission, is that her body was dumped where it was found by [kayaker] Mr Joyce.”It’s over 13 kilometres from her home. It’s a 13 to 20 minutes drive. you would think it would take a considerable time to walk that distance.”Both of the Baden-Clay cars are at home, so she either had to walk there or be taken there by someone else.”Mr Fuller noted Mrs Baden-Clay was a reluctant exerciser and would avoid steep hills on her morning walks. He said it was unlikely the mother-of-three would walk 13 kilometres from her home on the morning she was due to meet a colleague at 8am to attend a real estate conference.

11:07am: Mr Fuller has turned his attention to the are surrounding Kholo Creek.“It’s a remote location,” he said.”There is room to stop a vehicle. It doesn’t need to be on the roadway.”
11:09am: “Would it be less obvious if you’re [parked] in a dark Captiva rather than a white Prado with damage to the front and personalised number plates?” Mr Fuller said.The prosecution has alleged Mr Baden-Clay put his wife’s body in the boot of hersilverHoldenCaptiva anddrovetoKholo Creek where he dumped her body.

Allison Baden-Clay's car.

Allison Baden-Clay’s car. Photo: Court Exhibit

11:14am: Mr Fuller said the banks around Kholo Creek may have been dry on the evening of April 19, 2012.He said the catchment area did not receive heavy rain until April 27, 2012, only three daysbeforeMrsBaden-Clay’s body was discovered.”Where’s the mud that’s going to be there on the 19th or the morning of the 20th?” Mr Fuller asked.The defence pointed to a lack of mud or grass in the HoldenCaptiva that Mr Baden-Clay might have traipsed back into the car after allegedly dumping his wife’s body to connect the real estate agent to the crime scene.”Don’t be distracted by the mud,” Mr Fuller said.

Under the Kholo Creek bridge.

Under the Kholo Creek bridge. Photo: Court Exhibit

11:21am: Mr Fuller said Mrs Baden-Clay’s body was dragged part way down the embankment of the creek to a concrete pylon beneath the bridge on Mt Crosby Road.

He said her body was pushed from the concrete ledge.

“Her body was pushed off the ledge and her body fell to where she was,” he said.

“And that’s the position in which she remained …

“She did not end up jumping off there, or falling off there, she was thrown down there.”

11:27am: Mr Fuller said there was little evidence to suggest Mrs Baden-Clay intentionally jumped from the Kholo Creek bridge.“You will safely conclude she was not suicidal or in some drug-induced delirium,” he said.Mr Fuller said Mrs Baden-Clay would have sustained substantial injuries if she had jumped.”There are none,” he said.He said forensic pathologist Dr Nathan Milne conceded Mrs Baden-Clay may have escape significant injury if she fell into a “depth of water”.

“Well ladies and gentlemen, the only way she could have fallen into a depth of water and ended up there, was if she was washed up on the bank,” Mr Fuller said, showing the court a photograph of Mrs Baden-Clay’s body on the muddy creek bank.

“She has not fallen from the bridge to end up in that position unless the water has carried her.”

But Mr Fuller said Dr Milne did not believe Mrs Baden-Clay’s body had been immersed in water.

Dr Milne conducted a post-mortem examination on Mrs Baden-Clay.

11:34am: Mr Fuller said time-lapse video prepared by the defence showing the rising and falling tides in Kholo Creek made it seem as though debris floated quickly through the water.There was in fact six hours between high and low tides, he said.
11:37am: Mr Fuller said it did not matter whether Mrs Baden-Clay’s body had been wet by the rising and falling tides if the defence theory was to be substantiated.“There needs to be a body of water sufficient to float her body up onto the plateau,” he said.The defence has suggested Mrs Baden-Clay’s was washed up onto a muddy creek bank after she took her own life from Kholo Creek bridge.
11:40am: Mr Baden-Clay is leaning back in his chair in the dock, writing notes on a pad of paper, as Mr Fuller displays crime scene photographs of his wife’s body to the courtroom.
11:44am: The court has adjourned for a 15 minute morning tea break.
12:07pm Recap: Here is another excerpt from Mr Fuller’s closing address …

“On the surface to so many of these witnesses the Baden-Clays seemed like a perfect couple … ” Mr Fuller said.

“But it was just a facade.

“A facade which had been carried on for a long period of time.

“You might think that inwardly they were very different. Two desperately unhappy people for different reasons. One of them, a woman who had battled for years, for years, to keep her marriage together, despite being told perhaps the cruelest thing that a wife can ever hear from a husband, ‘I don’t love you’.

“And a man, who you might think, was just looking for a way out, living a double life.

“My friend can quite easily say, ‘well the deception was really only the infidelity’. But was it?

“It is not the deception … every day for the three years that Toni McHugh was with him in the office, when he went home for ‘happy hour’ to spend some time with his wife and children, to help Allison through that part of the day, to simply then slink back to be with Toni McHugh at night.

“To conduct an affair in an office where his father was working. And not for the first time. Let’s go back to Michelle Hammond – the woman who worked at the agency next door. Not only his father worked with him at that time, but his mother. That shows you the level of deception.

“It shows you what this man is capable of doing. His level of bravado and confidence in what he can carry out and carry on. He simply presented a number of faces to a number of different people, right up until this evidence in this trial …

“He cried when he told you about the first time he realised he was in love with Allison Baden-Clay, but just think about his reaction when I asked, ‘when was the first time that you told her that you no longer loved her?’

“The Crown says that those roles contributed to the pressures that were building on him and culminated in his acts on the 19th and the early hours of the 20th of April 2012.”

12:09pm: “The key to the trial is in fact what’s building on this man here. What’s changing in his life over the period of time that we’ve looked at? What pressure have been brought to bear by his wife, by Toni McHugh and by the drama he was having in his business,” Mr Fuller said.“The Crown says the killing was this man’s reaction to a particular set of circumstances that accumulated over time, a set of circumstances which, with respect, were of his own making.”

12:10pm: Court has resumed and Mr Fuller has continued his closing address.

12:12pm: Mr Fuller asked the jury: “Do you know someone who’s good at covering their tracks?”

12:23pm: Mr Fuller reminded the jury two forensic toxicologists said it was unlikely Mrs Baden-Clay was adversely affected by the antidepressant drug Sertraline, sold as Zoloft.

Even forensic toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson, who was called by the defence, said the level of the drug found in Mrs Baden-Clay’s body was not consistent with Sertraline-related deaths.

12:26pm: Mr Fuller said Mrs Baden-Clay’s diagnosis with “major depressive disorder” in 2003 should not be “used against her”.

He said a diagnosis should not be relied upon to discredit a person in the face of the treatment a person has received or the medication they have been prescribed.

12:38pm: Mr Fuller said the jury could “safely put to bed” the defence theory that Mrs Baden-Clay was adversely affected by her antidepressant medication Zoloft.

The defence has suggested Mrs Baden-Clay was suffering Serotonin Syndrome prompted by her medication which caused her to become disoriented and possibly hallucinate.

Mr Fuller said Mrs Baden-Clay had managed her depression well and overcome the panic attacks she experienced during her second pregnancy in 2003.

“The panic attacks were linked with her … second pregnancy. Yet that somehow gets turned into 2012 ‘she must have overdosed’,” Mr Fuller said.

“If you exclude drowning, falling, jumping, drug toxicity, what are you left with?”

12:43pm: “That means she wasn’t affected by the drugs, she didn’t drown, she didn’t fall,” Mr Fuller said.

“You’ll find she was dumped at the creek when she was already dead.”

Mr Fuller said the jury did not have to determine the “mechanism” of Mrs Baden-Clay’s death.

“Only the person who killed her would know that,” he said.

“But it was efficient and effective.

“Effective because it achieved the desired result. Efficient because it didn’t leave any evidence.”

12:47pm: Mr Fuller has turned his attention to the Baden-Clays’ daughters on the night of April 19, 2012.

The three young girls slept soundly on the night their father allegedly killed their mother at their Brookfield home.

Mr Baden-Clay told the court sound travelled easily throughout their rented weatherboard home on Brookfield Road.

Mr Fuller pointed to a baby monitor on Mrs Baden-Clay’s bedside table.

“Why do you need a baby monitor if noise travels easily throughout the house?” he asked.

The lay-out of the Baden-Clay home.

The lay-out of the Baden-Clay home. Photo: Court Exhibit

12:52pm: “Let’s go to where did it happen,” Mr Fuller said.

“Her body tells us one more thing and that’s the leaves.”

The court has previously heard six different types of leaves where found entwined in Mrs Baden-Clay’s hair and resting on her jumper. The six species of plants were found growing around the Baden-Clays’ home. Only two species were found in the Kholo Creek area.

“The inextricably link Mrs Baden-Clay to her house and inextricably link her death to her house,” Mr Fulle  said.

“All six and no more and no less.

12:59pm: Court has adjourned for lunch and will resume at 2.30pm.

Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC has begun is closing address to the jury.

  • He set about methodically discrediting the defence’s theories about Mrs Baden-Clay’s death in pointing to evidence to suggest it was unlikely she walked 13 kilometres from her home to take her own life at the Kholo Creek bridge.
  •  He highlighted the testimony of defence witness Dr Michael Robertson to suggest Mrs Baden-Clay was not suffering adverse affects of her antidepressant mediation Zoloft when she set out for a walk to “clear her heard” in the early hours of April 20, 2012.
  • He said forensic pathologist Dr Nathan Milne did not find any injuries on Mrs Baden-Clay’s body to suggest she had fallen from a height.
  • He also recalled the evidence of microscopic algae expert Dr Jacob John who did not find evidence in Mrs Baden-Clay’s lungs to suggest she had drowned.

“If you exclude drowning, falling, jumping, drug toxicity, what are you left with?” Mr Fuller asked.

 Defence counsel Michael Byrne QC completed his closing address to the jury, saying Mr Baden-Clay was not a cold-blooded murderer.

“Once you have dispassionately, objectively assessed the evidence – the whole of the evidence – you would not and you could not find Gerard Baden-Clay guilty of the murder of his wife,” Mr Byrne said.

“There is no cause of death, there’s no motive that stands to scrutiny, there’s no realistic means of him doing the things the prosecution says were done by him as part of a scenario.”

2:33pm: Court has resumed and Mr Fuller has continued to his closing address to the jury.

He has again drawn the jury’s attention to the leaves found in Mrs Baden-Clay’s hair.

2:41pm: Mr Fuller said the only “rational conclusion” the jury could draw was that Mrs Baden-Clay’s head had come into contact with the leaf litter outside her house.

“And if her head came into contact with the leaf litter at her house, how is that possible?” he asked.

The court has previously heard six different types of leaves were found entwined in Mrs Baden-Clay’s hair and tangled in the sleeves of her jumper. The six species of plants were found growing around the Baden-Clays’ Brookfield home. Only two species of plants were found in the Kholo Creek area.

“So that’s what connects her to her house, ladies and gentlemen,” Mr Fuller said.

3:04pm: Mr Fuller has turned his attention to the scratches which appeared on Mr Baden-Clay’s face on the morning he reported his wife missing.

Mr Baden-Clay has maintained the injuries were shaving cuts, but four forensic experts who testified at the trial said the abrasions were more consistent with fingernail scratches.

The real estate agent told police he would usually “shit, shower and shave” each morning. But on the morning he reported his wife missing Mr Baden-Clay said he had showered before shaving because he was in a rush.

“If you have to do the same to things, is it any quicker to do them in reverse order?” Mr Fuller asked the jury.

3:20pm: Mr Fuller said DNA “belonging to someone else” was found under the fingernails of Mrs Baden-Clay’s left hand.

“Her left hand scratching the right side of his face,” Mr Fuller said.

He said the scratches on Mr Baden-Clay’s face were there “damning”.

“They are damning and link him to the act of violence without any doubt,” he said.

3:23pm: The jury has taken a 10 minute break.

3:35pm: Court has resumed.

“Now I want to talk about the pressures on Mr Baden-Clay,” Mr Fuller said.

3:39pm: Mr Fuller said Mr Baden-Clay was facing pressure from his wife, his long-time mistress Toni McHugh and his flagging business.

But Mr Fuller said the pressures upon Mr Baden-Clay did not necessarily result in an angry explosion.

He said a person could make a “calm decision” to respond to pressure with an act of violence.

Mr Baden-Clay has denied being under pressure from Ms McHugh and has denied being under significant financial stress at the time of his wife’s disappearance.

3:48pm: Mr Fuller said Mr Baden-Clay failed to tell police about the heated argument he had with Ms McHugh on the afternoon of April 19, 2012.

“He says there is no tension at all. No issue with his wife at all. Everything was happy,” Mr Fuller said.

“But of course he fails to talk about the conversation he had with Toni McHugh.”

Mr Fuller said Mr Baden-Clay’s responses to questions from police were “scripted to justify his behaviour”.

3:56pm: Mr Fuller has shown the jury further pages from Mrs Baden-Clay’s journal.

On one page Mrs Baden-Clay wrote her “Daily Disciplines” which included exercising and drinking water.

On the following page she wrote: “I have a loving marriage with a wonderful relationship with great sex.”

On other pages she wrote lists of gratitudes. She wrote the final list of gratitudes on June 1, 2010.

Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay on their wedding day. Photo: Supplied

4:02pm: The journal reveals the Baden-Clays’ marriage was in trouble just two months later.

On August 23, 2010 Mrs Baden-Clay wrote:

“I would give anything for my partner to make love to me.”

On December 8, 2010 Mrs Baden-Clay wrote:

“If would give anything if my partner would love me and make love to me.”

“I’m afraid of losing my marriage, being a single mum, my marriage failing …

“Maybe I am still harbouring regrets about getting married and did I make the right decision?”

4:13pm: Meanwhile, Mr Fuller said, Mr Baden-Clay was embroiled in an affair with his then-employee Toni McHugh.

Come 2012, Mr Baden-Clay was promising Ms McHugh he would be with her “unconditionally” from July 1.

“This man was in love with Toni McHugh,” Mr Fuller said.

“This man wanted to be with Toni McHugh. But he was straddling the fence – didn’t have the courage to go, didn’t have the courage to stay. Does that not show the pressure and the place that this man was in come the 19th and 20th of April 2012?”

Gerard Baden-Clay and Toni McHugh’s emails are submitted to the Brisbane Supreme Court where the father-of-three is standing trial for his wife Allison’s murder. Photo: Court Exhibit

4:23pm: “She fell for the Baden-Clay product and fell hard,” Mr Fuller said of Ms McHugh.

“She was obviously in love with this man had endured three years of a relationship with him every day that was brought to an end in 2011 … and he refuses to make contact with her.

“Then he comes back into her life and it [the affair] continues, but under different conditions.”

“But she still is gracious enough to give him the out, but he doesn’t take it.”

The court has previously heard Ms McHugh and Mr Baden-Clay met at a Kelvin Grove coffee shop in early 2012.

At the meeting Ms McHugh said: “If you want to be with your wife, be with her.”

4:28pm: Court has adjourned for the day.

Mr Fuller will continue his closing address tomorrow.

Allison Baden-Clay put her husband’s phone on charge at 1.48am and then went for a late night walk “to clear her head” on the day she disappeared, a Supreme Court jury was told yesterday.

Defence barrister Michael Byrne QC in his closing address to the Supreme Court in Brisbane put to the jury that the Brookfield mother-of-three first took a 100mg tablet of the antidepressant Zoloft before leaving the house in her walking clothes.

He said Ms Baden-Clay might have decided to walk out into the night, further than usual, against a background of mental turmoil over her husband’s long-running affair, which they had discussed in detail the previous two nights; the possibility she would run into his mistress at a real estate conference the next day; and her failure to bear him a son.

Mr Byrne said the drugs in Ms Baden-Clay’s system would peak in her blood stream and be absorbed by 4am. He said it was possible, with an increased dose that she experienced disorientation brought on by “serotonin syndrome” or perhaps just the greater than usual aberrant side-effects of Zoloft.

“And some time, for some reason, she ends up in the river,” he said. “The autopsy report can’t rule out drowning, it can’t rule out a possible fall, a jump from the bridge which could have rendered her unconscious, and either drowning or dying in the river.”

He told the jury it was a scenario they might reject, but it was one which they might think was open to them on the evidence.

Gerard Baden-Clay, 43, has pleaded not guilty before Justice John Byrne to murdering his wife and dumping her body 13.5km away at the Kholo Creek Bridge at Anstead on April 19, 2012.




322 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 16

  1. On day 16, I hope that the jurors think exactly this “Gerard Baden Clay is Guilty, and that’s a fact based on circumstantial evidence, and that they give him the Guilty Verdict.


    • Good morning RIP Allison, great post!
      You are right! We all should be more vigilant if we see/hear something that just doesn’t seem “right”. Jotting down a license plate number or and car details takes no time and could make a world of difference. You just never know…
      It’s a shame the way the world is nowadays however, with people being less inclined to “get involved” for fear of becoming a victim too.
      I personally am a “reporter”, if I see or hear something not quite right, I damn well report it!
      Justice for Allison

      Liked by 2 people

  2. Byrne apparently, is going to finish his address “succinctly” this morning so one would imagine if true to his word, he will be finished by 10:45. The jury will then break for 15 minutes or so.
    Prosecution will then start their closing argument.
    It’s a case of “Who knows” as to how long this will take.
    During the closing arguments, the jury appear to be given 15 minute breaks at 45 minute intervals.
    So, IF Byrne finishes his address this morning, Mr Fuller should start his closing address around 11am.
    Jury break at 11:45 – 12:00pm, go for another 45 mins until 12:45 then break for lunch. Back again at 2:00pm for another 45 minute session, 15 minute break until 3:00pm. (Let’s hope Mr Fuller has finished his address by this time) if not, he will continue for another 45 minutes until 3:45pm. The question is, will Mr Fuller complete his closing statement by 3:00 pm or 3:45 pm? Or, will it continue into Wednesday???
    Is he expected to address everything the defence has mentioned? Or, will he just blast them out of the water so to speak in lightening fashion?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Good morning BR, spot on-a -rooney! Great piece of advice. Wish I’d known that 30 years ago ;)
      My in-laws (now) are such beautiful, caring and loving people and raised an equally beautiful, caring loving man who I’m proud to call mine.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Well done Bella!

        Maybe we could develop an App (not Ms) where you put the parent and child into….shake it (technical term) and it spits out a little video of the child in 10, 20 and 30 years time?

        Liked by 2 people

    • Hi LJC and all :) I couldn’t read through Byrne’s BS. I’m going to approach this as I have every job interview in my life. I said nothing to no one about even applying for the job until I knew if I got it. It worked every time. I’ve always gotten job I applied for. Now to be sure; I haven’t had to apply for that many jobs however. during the nine months prior to birth of my two children I was absolutely certain as to what I was having. Would not share with my husband as I was certain I would jinx myself. Had exactly what I thought I would have both times. So I won’t listen to babbling Byrne so as not to jinx us all. I watched a case other night that is so close in comparison to this one but will only share after we know verdict. I have an almost calming feeling what it will be. A jury is wired to feel like every other human and often defence forgets that in their closing remarks/summation. I was so behind in my work and feeling so unwell it was imperative for me to take time away. Even though I sure did miss conversing with all of you.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. How sad for Allison to be dragged through the mud again yesterday :( Not sure how some people can sleep at night !!!
    The defence was saying something about GBC going to the Parent, Teacher interview whilst Allison chose to go to the Hairdressers (words similar)
    Wasn’t the Parent teacher interview the day before, after the Childrens Sports Carnival ??? (18th April)
    Anyone remember ??


    • I think I’m confused, old age setting in. The Children’s Sport Carnival was the 19th, however wasn’t the parent Teacher Interview the 18th and not the same day Allison went to the Hairdresser’s ???


  4. RIP, I think I love you but you brought a tear to my eye and a sick feeling in my tummy with those reminders.

    If only the lessons you so succinctly describe were followed by each and every individual, what a better world it would be.

    Not sure how the mentality of ‘it’s not my business’ can be changed. It astounds me at times even down to insignificant events like a breakdown in traffic….people drive around the stationery vehicle and person impatiently and sometimes verbal abuse for good measure….without a thought of assisting.

    I must confess to being a convert with police lines in my phone and I don’t descriminate as I tittle tattle on the police when I see ‘duty of care’ failures. They haven’t hung up on me yet but I have experienced impatience in a very scary incident.

    Fortunately we have a neighbourhood which has a ‘take a strange vehicle’s number plate’, keep an eye out and take care of each other mentality. Very blessed to live in the best street in Australia.

    Don’t want to sound like a goody two
    shoes because I am not, I am naughty, but I don’t like people getting away with doing things that might cause harm to others.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Sadly, I think the defense will have created enough reasonable doubt for GBC to get off. I think he is guilty as sin! God help the next woman that is foolish enough to get involved with him – these narcissistic butt wipes seem to be able to attract mates. Even if he is found guilty as charged, life only means 10-15 years and you only need serve 80% of your sentence before you might be reformed and eligible to apply for parole. Our “justice” system is BS


    • OzLioness
      Life is currently a minimum of 18 before the first Parole App can be submitted and then “Lifers” nearly always get the first one rejected, making “Life” closer to 20 for a “lifer” with no or little ‘history’ in Prison. It was 15 but all Murder/Unlawful Killing sentences (and min time) have been on the rise for the last 10 years at least with ‘Law ‘n Order’ being the Pollies best friend at election time.

      Just an aside….I see Rolf Harris will spend 4 weeks in the Big House and then straight into the “Savoy of Prisons” with no fences, door never locked and ‘grounds’ to enjoy.

      Not a bad gig.


  6. Psychopathy is usually partially environmental, so GBC’S parents are partially to blame, GBC’S mother probably has Borderline Personality Disorder, and his father probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Also, Borderline Personality disorder is not a borderline personality disorder, it’s an actual personality disorder.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Good Morning all, chins up I say, we are all trying to guess the end of the “Movie” half way. Lets see how the day rolls out.

    Justice John Byrne was very smart giving the jury those spells.

    We wouldn’t want an appeal based on jurors falling asleep yesterday listening to all the lies excuses and dribble.

    Jurors will be much more attentive today! Because what they will be listening to, makes sense. Meets the “pub or water fountain standard” Aussies intuitively set. That inbuilt bullshit meter…

    I talked about movies half way through, yesterday was like a ridiculous sci fi, pure fantasy, today it will be like a documentary. have a good day folks


    Liked by 2 people

  8. Everyone, the defence have finished arguing, the persecution will finish arguing soon, I expect that a verdict could be in between 11am and 1pm, Brisbane Time.


  9. Robbo, if GBC gets acquitted, he might find out about this website and try and shut it down. Because we discuss our opinions, and in GBC’S own mind you may have been starting rumours about him, which is not true, but who knows, he could do anything.


    • No way, wont happen. There are now millions of pages on the internet about him, this case, his family etc.

      Rumours are not illegal, and as he knows neither is lying.

      Unless you are inside a court giving sworn testimony!

      Liked by 1 person

  10. He cant take all the notes he wants now, his and his teams turn is done dusted and over. No influence whatsoever (Must be for his memoirs from jail)

    Liked by 4 people

  11. GBC’s big mistake was to blame Alison for everything.

    The mobile phone put on charge by Alison, apparently while in a confused suicidal state, then she conveniently wanders off into the night to end her life.

    Or gone for a walk early in the morning somehow ending up an unreasonable 14km’s away under a bridge.

    You can have it every way. If she was confused & suicidal then it’s unreasonable she placed his phone on charge. And the going for a walk in the mornings is unreasonable considering how far away she was found.

    He’s using the it’s her fault for every excuse to the point it voids his scenario’s.

    Liked by 4 people

    • If I was that suicidal and ready to go…. I wouldn’t change my clothes and not say goodbye to my kids whilst they were still awake! Or at least do something differently to the routine given I wasn’t going to be there for them for the rest of their lives and well, I’d have my phone with me or at least near me if it wasn’t at home…. Entire area searched for phone… Nada. How convenient for hubby. Wonder why he wouldn’t want it found though…. No calls or texts on it that could be damning to him… Hmmmmmm


      • Yep , if i was going to kill myself , there’d be NO walking involved
        thats a fact !
        As for her doing that walk to clear her head ? Sorry , i’d be still in my pj’s behind the wheel of one of TWO cars .
        You don’t get into your workout tracky gear when your at the end of your rope .
        She was in her pjs . Where the bloody hell are they ????


      • AND how many bridges or overpasses etc does one need to walk past to decide to end ones life in the dark and shit scared? 13km at what 3km an hour walking along all depressed, anyone know how many? (see BS meter)


      • I think the phone was used as part of a very cunning plan – as a decoy. As long its batteries lasted and triangulation could show it to be in the Brookfield area where it was hidden, search efforts would be focused there. That way, finding her body would be delayed for more than a week, at which time COD and DNA evidence would have been destroyed. I believe if it was not for the phone signals, the search would have widened much earlier and she may have been found sooner.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I think that’s a good theory. You can’t tell me THAT was coolly, calmly and meticulously planned. I wish I had more solid evidence but I’ve only got my gut… and it just knows that every bit of this was planned bar the scratches to his face. So frustrating that I can’t prove it but really hope Todd Fuller brings home the bacon.


    • applejack; they tend to make several points in one particular area on whiteboards or similar. Large enough for all 12 of them to see. They discuss these notes and decide to reject/save/dismiss them/come back to them and so forth. It’s very methodical and time consuming if they are serious about it which appears this jury is.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sorry I’m a bit confused. Do you mean they can discuss it among themselves before they go into deliberation?
        I was asking if they can take down notes during trial/court time, as the evidence is presented to them, is that what you mean?


        • Yes Applejack
          They can write notes during the various bits of testimony.

          They’ll also have typed transcripts of the proceedings, copies of Statements, Autopsy Report ….the whole box ‘n dice.


            • Also any electronic devices – phones, ipads etc have to be handed to the court bailiff upon arriving and are given back to them when they leave the room to go outside – i.e. end of day and lunch breaks


        • No applejack; once they are in their ‘room’ doing the deliberation. Justice will give all instructions prior to their departure from the court room. To my knowledge they need permission to leave the room for any reason so as not to discuss any part of case with even so much as a person walking by.


  12. Some possible related info; The Mayo Clinic states under the heading of underlying causes of narcissistic personality disorder. Very often there is a combinations of (a) early un-attachment to the mother (b) unrealistically high expectations by the parents throughout childhood (c) overly inflated/dramatic responses to minimal accomplishments that could induce early feelings of superiority.
    Sound like someone/and his parents?

    Liked by 3 people

  13. “That means she wasn’t affected by the drugs, she didn’t drown, she didn’t fall,” Mr Fuller said.

    “You’ll find she was dumped at the creek when she was already dead.”

    Mr Fuller said the jury did not have to determine the “mechanism” of Mrs Baden-Clay’s death.

    “Only the person who killed her would know that,” he said.

    “But it was efficient and effective.

    “Effective because it achieved the desired result. Efficient because it didn’t leave any evidence.”

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Fully agree with armchairexpert2… Without exception, all of the Baden-Clays (GBC, NBC, OW – and a couple of their “friends”) have overplayed their hand by dramatising and exaggerating Allison’s quite normal ups and downs. Too much has been made of her alleged weaknesses. Without anything else (and there are lots of other “odd” pieces in this puzzle), this leads an objective person to immediately ask why. Why has this family been so keen to paint a warm, gentle, caring woman as suicidal when all the independent witnesses have painted quite a different picture of her? What are they trying to prove? What are they trying to hide?

    Liked by 2 people

  15. At first I thought “this guy is guilty as sin” , especially after watching the initial press interview with him and his sister by his side. He appeared to be faking the entire concerned husband thing but now after looking at all the facts, I have come to the conclusion that he may be lying, cheating jerk but that doesn’t make him a killer. Admittedly the scratches on his face and other assorted injuries on his body are definitely questionable and I certainly don’t believe that his razor caused the marks on his face but honestly, hasn’t the prosecution just presented a completely circumstantial case?


    • Thanks for your thoughts.The last sentence caught my eye though.Yes they have presented a circumstantial case. There are many many trials where this happens. Without a confession or witnesses they are all circumstantial.makes it no less a case when you look at the entire chain of evidence, circumstances, a motive and so on.

      Each link joins up to the next making a very strong chain, rather than looking at any one piece, like on video interview, or Allison took Zolft, o the affairs.The whole situation has to be examined.

      Time will tell soon enough it is good enough, cheers

      Liked by 4 people

    • Many murder cases are circumstantial. it is very rare that the killer is (a) witnessed in the act of carrying out the murder, or (b) confesses to the murder. Doesn’t stop convictions from being successfully obtained.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Exactamundo .
        And , of course there’s been many who have been convicted guilty purely on circumstantial evidence .
        Hell , sometimes they don’t even need a body .

        Liked by 2 people

  16. I can hear the squeaking of the screws tightening…. the leaves! The leaves! He has not even come to talk about the scratches yet, but sounds like reasonable doubt it being quashed by Hot Toddy. :)

    Liked by 3 people

  17. 12:52pm: “Let’s go to where did it happen?” Mr Fuller said.

    “Her body tells us one more thing and that’s the leaves.”

    The court has previously heard six different types of leaves where found entwined in Mrs Baden-Clay’s hair and resting on her jumper. The six species of plants were found in and around the Baden-Clays’ home. Only two species were found in the Kholo Creek area.

    “The inextricably link Mrs Baden-Clay to her house and inextricably link her death to her house,” Mr Fulle said.

    “All six and no more and no less.”

    Liked by 2 people

      • How can they not be. Riveting to hear Crown QC Fuller spelling it all out for them.All those dots joining together.

        The jumbled jigsaw pieces from some other box that Byrne tossed in, weeded out. Now they are seeing the jigsaw come together showing the full true picture.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Robbo, have you been watching Gerrie Nel in action? I could listen to him all day, even though he hacks away pedantically through seeming minutia for hours

          When it comes to the defence in that case, however — rightly or not, I just want them to shut up and go away

          Wondering if it’s similar in the GBC case. Does Mr Fuller have that extra magnetism, compared to Mr Byrne

          Not scientific and shouldn’t be that way, perhaps. But it’s the same in a group, isn’t it. Some stand apart and you find yourself tuning others out in order to listen to them attentively. Hoping Fuller has that extra something which marks him in the minds and senses of the jury as the one to really listen to – and believe

          Liked by 1 person

          • Yes Burleigh Beach. I have been watching Mr. Nel and I can’t decide just yet who I am most in love with. Toddy or Gerrie. Maybe equally … they are both so brilliant and quite handsome. Unlike Mr eerrkkk Byrne

            Liked by 1 person

            • “Come on Mr.PISStorious, surely you cannot expect us to believe that!” haha
              Yeah was watching it live every night up until the 30 day shrink assessment. Another lying coward

              Liked by 2 people

              • Having said that, both sides, this is their stage, they perform, this is the big pay-off for them, especially these big media hyped trials.

                A silks performance can very much swing a case either way.Juries get mesmerised OR bored with them. They dazzle or they frazzle. Which one would you remember?

                The one that is theatrical, has charisma, charms you, touches your senses and your brain, make you believe what you are being told. Or the monotonous boring one reeling off pages and pages of trivia amid the facts.Wanting you to really believe pigs could indeed fly…

                These guys put a hell of a lot of work into the closing. Most probably before it even started they had been working on the tactics and different scenarios. I find it fascinating!


                • Robbo !!!!

                  Reading your 1.42 p.m. post was a bit like listening to music !

                  It revealed the poet in you

                  Salute ! (said Italian style)


  18. The persecutor, Todd Fuller is doing a great job at proving that GBC is Guilty, I think the jury will be convinced that GBC is Guilty, so all I can say about Fuller is, ‘Go Fuller! And if GBC’S defence barrister manages to convince the jury that GBC is not guilty, he will go home, go to sleep and have a dream about MONEY.


    • Don’t care about the money or the rest

      Just want GBC to experience the same awful sensations as Allison felt when she had to give up her last breath. Want him to know what it’s like to have his life snatched away, even though a prison sentence is survivable, unlike what happened to Allison

      I’m not seeking revenge. But he needs to learn and be forced to think about what he did. Otherwise, Allison was robbed and those who loved her were robbed for no purpose

      Liked by 1 person

        • Hello Jessy :-)

          Yes — what you said — balance in our world. We need for it to be seen in the same way our ancestors wanted it down through tens of thousands of years. We want for wrongs to be righted, Or we have to accept we stand for nothing, which would render life pointless

          Dashing off for a bit to catch up with real life before the afternoon session gets underway

          Hope you’re having a nice day, Jessy :-)


        • Don’t know what he is, BR, but I’m pretty sure he can’t really help being as he is – just born that way, luck of the toss, roll of the dice, in his cards, etc.

          He needs the brakes to be applied though, imo. And a stint in a prison would work as well as anything, in addition to taking him out of circulation and giving the world a break. In prison, he’d be with many of his own kind. It would make him realize he’s not unique or speshull – a bunch of kidders all trying to con each other. So big wakey-wakey. And if he’s sentenced to 25 years, even if he’s out in 15, it will cut him down a peg or three in addition to allowing those in the real-world who were affected by him, to move on minus his nonsense

          Liked by 1 person

          • BB

            I suppose that opens up the question of ‘being born that way’ and the issue of Mental Illness in people who commit heinous crimes.

            ‘They’ say that we’ve all got personality disorders (to some degree) and some have got significant Character Disorders. At what point do we start treating people as opposed to imprisoning them?


            • BR a British doctor called narcissistic personality disorder the bastard child of personality disorders. In that it is considered by all mental health specialists to be the only one you are NOT born with but acquire perhaps in some cases with other personality disorders such as histrionic. There are a list of possible triggers in childhood brought on predominately by extreme lacks or over abundance in childhood. Best references from Mayo clinic under NPD.


      • BB I hate to be the bearer of bad news but If GBC has NPD (which I believe he has) then you are not ever going to see him experience the same Allison must have felt. He is not capable of empathy and certainly is never going to admit he did anything wrong. It all about him, what he believes he is and if ever he does not get his way, it is always someone else’s fault. He might go through the process of what he thinks will display remorse but he is not capable of truly feeling such an emotion because he is not capable of believing he did anything wrong.

        Everyone will just have to be content with him being talen off the streets so he can not harm others.

        Liked by 1 person

  19. I am unsure who made the comment that (Carmel Ritchie I think) didn’t ask the past history between GBC and Allison. (probably Byrne) Maybe Ms Ritchie is a Behaviourist therapist and not a Freudian therapist


      • Hi Caro. I don’t think one has to be registered as a therapist. I believe anyone can call themselves a therapist, but if she calls herself a psychologist then she must be registered. Psychologists would use an underpinning of psych theories and possibly she is a behaviourist rather than Freudian that takes into account backgrounds whereas Behaviourism does not so that maybe why she didn’t ask background info. All above board contrary to what Byrne (if he was the one stating this) is purporting.


      • A quick squizz at “Relationships Australia” shows that applicants for jobs as ‘Counsellors’ need “appropriate undergrad qualifications”

        Work as a team, use a computer, blah blah blah….


        • Yes, I don’t think you have to be registered to be a counsellor either. Undergrad quals dont cut it anymore I don’t think to be a registered psych. I think now you must have at least a Masters qual. Shall check Ms Ritchies quals on the APHRA website. But, whatever, she can use whatever therapy she wants to. I think Byrne was trying to put down her evidence


          • Hello Jenny

            If they see a chink in anyone purporting to be an ‘expert’, they’ll go for them.

            Normally ‘experts’ are people with recognised (and appropriate) qualifications, worked in their field for a long time, respected by peers, and are members of a well recognised fraternity/society.

            They’d sniff blood with ‘Counsellors’.


            • Yep, it is a wonder that he didn’t go for her lack of quals rather than the therapeutical underpinnings she was using. Relationships Aus. don’t have the best record, at least not in Victoria or with the psych community. Considered a pack of amateurs I think. In addition, I think she was with the persecution (lol) so it would have been in the interests of Byrne to shoot her down (or smother her, so to speak) but not the way he did.


              • Yeah, from what I could see “Relationships Australia” almost looks like a Franchise operation throughout Australia.

                Byrne may have been using the trusted “Defacto Team Member” approach with the Jury.

                i.e. If something is glaringly dodgy or missed…..say nothing, then expect that ‘astute’ members of the Jury will pick it up and start asking questions about it as opposed to having it rammed down their throat like everything else.

                Fingerprint experts use to do this. To establish a matching print they had to identify a minimum number of loops, whorls and arch’s which they’d proudly put onto a nice big display board for the Jury, and conveniently place arrows to identify each.

                What they wouldn’t do is identify the most obvious one….only the next lot to make up the minimum requirement.

                The Jury would study this as part of the process and then someone would have the ‘Eureka’ moment and find the ‘missing’ identifier…..with the only thing missing being a neon sign.

                BINGO……defacto Fingerprint Expert who’ll espouse his theory and find until the cows come home.


          • Actually Jenny ; you have to have at least a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology to use the title. However independent counsellors could be sketchy on credentials depending if you work on your own or for a gov’t board. Majority have a degree though.


  20. Thank you all for the runing comentary. It is horrible to think he might not get 12/12. Thank you BB for wanting GBC “to experience the same awful sensations as Allison felt when she had to give up her last breath.” I would add that I want him to experience all the shame and humiliation and pain (incl. physical – we don’t know as she did not confide in eith er her mum or best friend, and bruises are easily covered, injuries easily explained, by “confict avoiders” as the defence has called her) he inflicted upon her in the 15 years prior to that night, too.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Fuller describing Fight to the death

    Word-picture to put the jury right there in their imaginations

    Fight to the death — a woman pitted against a much larger and stronger foe who very probably had element of surprise as further advantage

    See it, jury members, a fight to the death which resulted in death. Just like the jungle. Jungle in suburbia

    Liked by 3 people

  22. Fuller being clever, phrases things so well! Loving this, wish I was watching a fixed Camera on GBC

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Fuller: The roads he takes are the perimeter of where police later triangulate her phone

    Another piece of mental-imagery for the jury

    That should stick

    Liked by 1 person

  24. “and then of course he gave the doctor his business card”

    Thats gold. This is great stuff, systematically blowing holes in every peice of defence’s babble. What i would give to see GBC squirming right now? Sweating? Figiting?

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Poor Gerard (pun intended) The ship is sinking my man…

    3:04pm: Mr Fuller has turned his attention to the scratches which appeared on Mr Baden-Clay’s face on the morning he reported his wife missing.

    Mr Baden-Clay has maintained the injuries were shaving cuts, but four forensic experts who testified at the trial said the abrasions were more consistent with fingernail scratches.

    The real estate agent told police he would usually “shit, shower and shave” each morning. But on the morning he reported his wife missing Mr Baden-Clay said he had showered before shaving because he was in a rush.

    “If you have to do the same to things, is it any quicker to do them in reverse order?” Mr Fuller asked the jury.

    Liked by 2 people

    • If he was in a hurry, wouldn’t he just shave in the shower?…..and not in front of a mirror?

      That’s what I do. Halfway through a shower I might decide to drag the old blade across the face….but always slowly and carefully because of doing it by ‘feel’ and with softer skin because of standing under the hot shower for a while.

      I’d assume that plenty of blokes (on the Jury) do that.

      Liked by 1 person

  26. I think the Prosecutor/Persecutor Todd Fuller is almost definitely going to convince the jury that GBC is Guilty, we hope. If he doesn’t convince the Jury, God help us.


  27. I always said the small things he said, that seemed insignificant, will bite his ass when a pro gets hold of them IF he took the stand (hence on record)

    Silly man, happens how often? 0.05% of all murder Trials? GBC thought he was/is clever

    Also by taking the stand he reversed the order of closing statements. Prosecution GOT last say (Thankyou GBC) That is what they will remember (well judges summary and instructions as well)

    Liked by 3 people

  28. Fuller: There was a struggle between the two of them and she left her mark on him. They are damning

    Fuller: One of the things the jury must find is intention

    Liked by 3 people

  29. Apologies to all if I interpretted this, as there being a secondary almost match under Allison’s finger nails:

    “Mr Fuller said DNA “belonging to someone else” was found under the fingernails of Mrs Baden-Clay’s left hand.
    “Her left hand scratching the right side of his face,” Mr Fuller said.
    He said the scratches on Mr Baden-Clay’s face were there “damning”.
    “They are damning and link him to the act of violence without any doubt,” he said.”

    I interpretted the words of the DNA expert to be 2 sets of ‘almost’ prints.

    Read more:


    • WOW…I did not know they found any surviving DNA from another person under Allison’s fingernail!!!!!!! This is BIG!!! Will there be an analysis identifying it as GBC’s? (or am I misunderstanding this sentence?)


      • The levels found were below the testing levels for the lab. So whilst the lab detected a second person contributing DNA, the levels were below the levels denoted by the lab to warrant further testing. So they never tested who it belonged to. I hope that makes sense.


        • Pity!! Nevertheless, yet another BIG ‘coincidence’ that her nail should contain DNA from another person, whilst GBC sported an array of fingernail scratch related injuries immediately after Allison’s disappearance…. good work!


  30. Fuller re: scratches: They are damning and they link him to the act of violence without any doubt

    Fuller: This is close quarters, close up violence. They are in arms reach of each other

    Fuller: She is unable to raise the alarm

    Fuller: She is unable to cause any injury to him other than the face

    Fuller: She was overpowered quickly and unable to resist. That’s why he was so confident about the police searching his house

    Fuller: Her left hand scratching the right side of his face

    Fuller: the only person to back that Allison had his phone all night is Gerard

    Fuller: His telephone. Put on the charger at 1.48am. It’s his phone. It’s his life line

    Fuller’s planting images in the minds and imaginations of jury members — painting vivid word-pictures. Later, the jury will, hopefully, see those images as if remembering the events themselves

    Liked by 5 people

    • Closest most women have come to those gouges, speaking from painful experience, is when shaving legs — shins and ankles — the bony bits. And it hurts like mad and does leave marks similar to Gerry’s gouges

      Can’t imagine what the male jurors could liken it to. Certainly not while shaving, unless they’ve all gone made and ‘haven’t lived’, lol

      Liked by 2 people

      • My brother told me that when he was helping to look after a lady who had dementia and Parkinsons she became angry and scratched him with her fingernails. He swears they looked just like GBCs scratches. He and many other guys claim those marks on GBC look nothing like any razor cut they have had.

        Liked by 4 people

        • Seeing as I’ve shared a little about my narcissistic ex-husband, I can say that I have inflicted a scratch or two on my ex husband in self defence along time ago and they looked pretty much identical to those Gerry is sporting ;)

          Liked by 1 person

  31. Off to hang out some more washing. Have eaten almost an entire box of chocolate ginger (small box, rare treat) but it hasn’t dulled the tension much

    Liked by 1 person

      • I made them last, Robbo

        Down to the last one, just as court adjourned for the day

        Will leave that last one as some sort of proof of self-discipline, lol


    • Hi ya Burleigh :) I think we will have many hours to go before they reach verdict. I feel this jury is going to think they really need to do their due diligence in this case. Don’t think they will leave any stone unturned. Can’t begin to imagine what the Dickie family/friends are going through and Prosecution. But I guess they’ve been pretty much numb with pain for over 2 years already.


  32. Does anyone think Toni McHugh will cash in on media deals when this is over ? She (and other mistresses could make some nice coin…(regardless of outcome)


      • Remember that mother Casey Anthony? Inexplicably found not guilty of killing here tiny daughter Caylee? (got away with it) but her “Million Dollar” media deal evaporated overnight when folks said exactly that…I dont think she has made a dollar since


        • These comments are appearing in odd places but Robbo re: Casey Anthony. Can’t recall his name( older bearded guy) just now but lawyer who came in to help CA’s has written a book. He and his wife see CA on a regular basis. Obviously Casey knows what she is doing as they are wealthy. It showed photo of CA hugging him by fireplace in the lounge/ocean in back view. He says she has never spoken to her parents or brother since trial. Ol’George/Cindy must have scammed more people along the way as they sold the ‘murder house’ and bought a nicer one in better neighbourhood and neither one of them are working (yet).What is it now-6 years? Another very creepy family.


    • I feel it depends on verdict how she will be perceived still by many. But depending on verdict and all she hasn’t told? Yes she most definitely could. Especially if it promoted in North America and the UK.
      But honestly Robbo; I have a feeling she is completely gutted by GBC’s testimony. She could be mid nervous collapse rite now.

      Liked by 1 person

        • Actually from a woman’s perspective Robbo I think Toni was infatuated/obsessed more than ‘in love’ with him. I’ve got a feeling she would have changed her tune had she actually got him all for herself.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Yeah spot on. Also how about the fact Defence tried to not so subtlely suggest Toni as a potential alternative killer in some silly way. The outraged lover and so on (defence throwing darts of course)


            • Robbo; if you care to check out the ‘David Duyst Sr’ case. Sandy Duyst being the murder victim. Watched an TV epi of Forensic Files on this particular case. I think there are chilling similarities even though it involved a gun in this case. This guy’s MO is almost identical to GBC.
              The lead investigator at the end of the show says crimes of this nature always involve two things ‘women and money’. I thought to myself how true is that!

              Liked by 1 person

                • Not sure Robbo, but if not I’ll find a way to get you the epi. I get a channel that has FFiles back to back every Friday nite. However if you ‘Google’ his/her name you will want to read the case history first then all the bull shite he is still doing years later. I would like you to read/watch it because it will make you feel some much needed justification.


                  • Robbo-Forensic Files is on You Tube!!! You just found a gold mine! Now I or we have to figure out which one is the Duyst case. Each epi has a title and I have no clue which season or name of epi it was. Here’s some clues that may be in title; a letter victim wrote (couple years before) to her sister helped solve her own murder along with forensics. Husband said she committed suicide.


                    • Robbo; I found the Duyst case/Forensic Files on YouTube and you won’t believe this…someone uploaded it in French! Title of epi is ‘A letter from the Grave’ if my translation is correct. Don’t know if you can get gist of it or not. Can you use translation app? I thought it was in Spanish first


    • Sadly (yes I know she was just as much at fault) we were discussing Toni yesterday & she will never be the same. The man she loved & who she thought loved her threw her under the bus bigtime. Lets just hope he doesn’t end up with her blood on his hands if she doesn’t cope.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Well TCR-may be they were discussing going out for Fish and Chips as LJC heard them discussing one day in court in between nodding off. And it was one of the days their little show pony was in witness box. Says it all about the clan doesn’t it.


    • Yes they were there today. I had the pleasure of walking to my car park right in front of them this afternoon around five(after most of the crowds had left). It was rather awkward for me. There whole group including Olivia and the brother and the parents were talking loudly and laughing. When i drove out of the car park i drove past them getting into there cars and they were all standing around talking with smiles on there faces , just like it was any other day. very strange behavior indeed….


  33. I loved the fact PC Todd Fuller emphasised the indention in the mud Allison’s body created at the creek. And for how long it remained. That showed she simply wasn’t gently placed in that position or that the water carried her there. I know many of us were hoping he would mention that crucial image. As it is one that definitely stays with you.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Oh boy — Fuller’s drawing a horror true-to-life portrait of GBC for jury now

    Well done. Speak the language of the average person, hit the points felt by the average person – make them feel

    Liked by 4 people

  35. When GBC was on the stand, he was making out that Allison was a lazy bum who was mentally ill and never did anything, it’s actually the opposite.

    Liked by 2 people

    • GBC was very very skilled at making everybody feel for him and do what he ought to be doing. Gutless, weak and spineless.

      I often think of the spruiker type of motivational speaker you see on A Current Affair. GBC all over

      He has not right to such a title. That belongs to Cancer survivors and Childhood sexual Abuse survivors and the like. Not someone who’s whole life revolves around selling over priced houses and bullshits to staff and loved ones….

      Liked by 1 person

      • My ex-husband was the same! Whinged to all who would listen how lazy I was and how he had to do EVERYTHING around the house. Lies, total lies. They have to BIG note themselves, they can’t help it. He’s a lying toad just like my ex! I’m sure there are plenty of women who have had the same experience with these narcissists.

        Liked by 1 person

        • You’re right on the money there, Bella. I had one who told me he’d brought spray tanning to the east coast of Australia. I nearly peed my pants laughing when I told my friends. The most he’d ever done is worked at a vacuum cleaner store. But just had to seem impressive in my eyes!!

          Liked by 1 person

  36. —- Fuller: She (Toni) fell for the Baden-Clay product and fell hard. —-

    I love this prosecutor. He is surreptitously ridiculing his business skills in the context of his devious social life.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Fuller: while Toni is discussing rental properties for them, Allison is speaking to their marriage counsellor

    Fuller: Where’s Allison when he’s sending email to Toni? Speaking to counsellor

    Fuller: Allison had been working at Century 21 four days a week, forging her career. Gerard has gone back to Toni

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Fuller: the business was such that he paid out his two partner $1 each and he had no assets

    Fuller: Gerard owed money, interest was not being paid. Hardly the hallmarks of due diligence and financial acumen

    Fuller: His partners knew of the affair with Toni

    Fuller: Gerard decided which interest payments he would not make

    Fuller: Gerard went to Bruce Flegg for money. He didn’t want an equity partner. He wanted to be the success

    Fuller: Gerard’s friends weren’t going to lend him any more money

    Fuller: Gerard did not cash in his shares to pay the interest he owed his friends

    Fuller: Gerard left his friends exposed. Do you not think that puts pressure on you. Do you walk away from your friends

    Fuller: Gerard told Sue Heath he needed $300,000 or he was going to go broke, got emotional

    Fuller: Gerard’s dreams for his business ended with him on the phone tearfully asking for money from the local MP

    Fuller: Gerard told police his wife had access to $20, that they were on the bones of their arse

    Fuller: He can’t afford to buy razor blades. He tells police ‘we’re on the bones of our arse

    Fuller: What happens to his assets if he and his wife split

    Fuller: His success has been illusory

    Fuller: the three pressures are coming together – wife, business, mistress

    Fuller: then we add marriage counsellor Carmel Ritchie to the mix, three days before Allison disappears

    Fuller: He was told to listen to Allison, was reluctant, didn’t see benefit

    badenclay trial is adjourned until 10am tomorrow. Prosecution has not finished

    Liked by 1 person

    • Yep. Pretty good

      And now it’s run, Burleigh Beach — run like the wind, like all the other trial addicts

      So much to catch up on in real life. Hungry tummies heading home ….

      We’ll all have to stake ourselves out in the sun for a week after this, to catch-up on our Vit D quotient

      Liked by 2 people

  39. To all site savvies- if you have the opportunity in the near future try watching the 1957 Academy Award winning movie ” 12 Angry Men” starring Henry Fonda and many other actors some of you will recognise. It is an excellent movie all about jurors deliberating a case. I won’t say more as to not give it away but I guarantee you won’t be disappointed. It may be on YouTube.


  40. Wow. That was so good today. And no, I don’t know what the jury is going to do because the reality is, you NEVER know what a jury is going to do :) but any questions, ask away, folks!

    Liked by 2 people

  41. Thanks LJC:
    Did GBC show any emotion at all? In response to anything?
    What was Todd Fuller’s tone – angry, incredulous?
    Have you transferred your affections from BR to TF :)?


  42. Hey LJC- I too am curious as to Todd Fuller’s tone and much much more!! Was he soft speaking his points? Emphasising often…do tell.
    Btw I think he is doing simply marvellous. I do believe I have a PC crush.


  43. Feeling a bit emotional this evening guys (nearly wrote ‘folks’ – live with someone long enough and you adopt some traits/idiosyncracies/language ie ‘Robbo’, you Big Brother You:-))

    I was a blog virgin prior to Allison’s death but for my own reasons and by accident, I stumbled upon this site. I will be going into blog retirement but wanted to throw out a big cyber hug together with a humungous THANK YOU for the opportunity to ‘hook’ up with likeminded people with a fire in their belly. It has kind of been a 24/7 drop-in-cyber-centre. I have struggled all along to find appropriate words to describe the event of Allison’s death.
    Sometimes, they say, words are not enough. I was thinking repugnant or repulsive or hideous….so I asked my friend the dictionary and some fitting words it supplied were:
    ugly, unsightly, repulsive, repellent, revolting, gruesome, disgusting, grotesque, monstrous, grim, ghastly, macabre, misshapen, reptilian, misproportioned, horrific, terrible, appalling, awful, dreadful, frightful, fearful, horrible, horrendous, shocking, sickening, heinous, abominable, foul, vile, odious, loathsome, contemptible, indescribable, beastly and so it goes on.
    I have had my tantrums, spat the dummy, had my say but most of all, I have enjoyed (if that is appropriate), or maybe appreciated, the camaraderie here, where in the main, we all were looking for Justice for Allison, others in similar positions and maybe even ourselves vicariously. Perhaps also to better understand the world and how such tragedies occur and how individually and collectively, we can learn, improve, protect.
    I am always apologising for being verbose, but then keep overspilling however I wanted to again share the lyrics from the Byrds. It kinda encompasses lots that I can’t put into words like some of you Eloquent Eddie’s and Edwina’s.

    Rest in Peace Allison, you have an earth army behind ya sista.
    Strength to your babies, parents, siblings, extended family and intimates.

    “Turn! Turn! Turn!” – The Byrds

    To everything – turn, turn, turn
    There is a season – turn, turn, turn
    And a time to every purpose under heaven

    A time to be born, a time to die
    A time to plant, a time to reap
    A time to kill, a time to heal
    A time to laugh, a time to weep

    To everything – turn, turn, turn
    There is a season – turn, turn, turn
    And a time to every purpose under heaven

    A time to build up, a time to break down
    A time to dance, a time to mourn
    A time to cast away stones
    A time to gather stones together

    To everything – turn, turn, turn
    There is a season – turn, turn, turn
    And a time to every purpose under heaven

    A time of love, a time of hate
    A time of war, a time of peace
    A time you may embrace
    A time to refrain from embracing

    To everything – turn, turn, turn
    There is a season – turn, turn, turn
    And a time to every purpose under heaven

    A time to gain, a time to lose
    A time to rend, a time to sew
    A time for love, a time for hate
    A time for peace, I swear it’s not too late!

    Liked by 5 people

    • Little Fish I too was a blog virgin. I had a bit of a break in the interim but was waiting for D-day June 10. What you have written is wonderful. You brought a tear to my eye & lump in my throat. I actually live down the road from Allison’s house & when I go past there or Kolo I always like to let her know I’m always thinking of her. I never met her but have probably stood behind her in Coles. I do know that I have sat at the table next to him in the Coffee Club (his office was next door). It makes my skin crawl. I do know that the girls are very well protected by all the girls, teachers & parents at their dance school. It breaks my heart everytime I think of all Allison & her girls will miss out on…weddings, babies, first loves or even when they are older just picking up the phone to tell her something. I was in my 40’s when I lost my mum 6yrs ago & miss her everyday. I can’t even comprehend the degree of their heartache.
      Anyway I’m rambling & blubbering now so I will stop.
      Best wishes with getting back into your everyday life.
      RIP Allison June Dickie <3

      Liked by 4 people

      • Likewise Kenmoremum… I’m not far away either and to think this all happened in our backyard! I just wish everyone had taken more notice of the ‘oddities’… We all just go ‘a bit odd’ but shrug our shoulders and think nothing more of it. Ever since this horrible event I now make a point of noticing the small oddities. Just in case another nutter strikes again. I worked with a colleague who we all knew was married but managed to schmooze every blonde girl in the area… And he dated a few too. Cool, calm and collected was his modus operandii… They always get away with it… Sad but true…

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yes indeed. It’s because nobody wants to get involved. But maybe some women that are being wooed by a married man might take notice …look what’s happened to the lives & reputations of the women involved here. :/

          Liked by 2 people

          • I’m watching this very same ‘multiple women’ situation with a narcissistic man at the centre happening right now, in front of my very eyes. And the women can never believe that a man like this exists or that he can do what he’s done. These eff-wits who suffer from emotional eff-wittage (the men or women narcissists who are serial adulterers) seriously need to be buried alive. And then stabbed through the loose earth with a pitchfork on the end of a pogo stick. Ok no, too violent. What I’m asking is, how do we deal with these people who could be anywhere, anyone, anytime?? People like GBC. People like the guy I know. People like some of the ex-partners of women on this site??? It sickens me that they breathe our same air.

            Liked by 2 people

    • Thank you Little Fish :) I have also followed all posts since the start. Something I have never done before. I have appreciated everyone’s words and thoughts.
      I am feeling very nervous about the outcome. We all know “who dunnit” but…..
      What ever the verdict is I hope there is some relief for the Dickies and the girls.
      They have suffered too long.
      RIP Allison


  44. Gee an entrepreneur could rake it in and start showing trials live…Seriously, think Foxtel…

    67 crap channels.

    Plenty of Aussies would pay to watch to offset set-up costs. I don’t get what the Government is worried about. We are showing Royal Commissions,we are showing Parliament all in the name of transparency.

    NO need to throw it down everyone’s throats via ABC or whatever.

    I am convinced people will pay.

    Liked by 2 people

  45. Just got home from court.

    Haven’t read others thoughts yet.

    What a great day for the prosecution, family,friends and supporters of Allison.

    There is no chance of GBC being acquitted in my mind.

    GBC is showing the exact signs that Max Sica did, not once looking at the body photos today.
    GBC was stoic, sat in the same position with his head just fixated straight ahead. At one stage this afternoon he didn’t even turn his head to pick up the cup of water, rather starred ahead and reached out with his arm to reach the cup. I was waiting for him to spill it haha.

    Fuller was methodical I thought. I was stoked to see him re emphasise the positioning of her body in relation to the bridge and vanishing points. I was cheering internally as that was one of my major misgivings that the jury had not been drawn to the body’s overall position and how far under the bridge it was. Fuller joined the dots very well in a concise, easy to understand / interpret manner. That a reasonable person would find it nearly impossible to reach any other conclusion than a guilty verdict.

    The one thing I found most interesting is the jury has seen more (different) photos for the prosecution during the summing up than in the trial itself.

    The Baden Clay’s honestly look shattered / very worried after court finished for the day (well you have to be outside the actual court room to see their body language, as they put on a completely different face once they walk out the main doors) Nigel is still his stoic self, nothing seems to bother him, but Elaine looks like today took it’s toll, both Olivia & Adam looked very worried. One of their friends wore a yellow tie grrr!

    I got a really nice photo of Byrne,Shileds Olivia, Adam walking together this morning. Unlike normal pap photogs I try to get each person in the best light possible.

    With regards to the verdict, I spoke to one of the people in charge. If ANYONE in any of the courts becomes vocal etc once the verdict is announced, they will be removed from the premises by security. So be warned kids, save your voices for outside the court :)

    Liked by 7 people

    • Thanks Gerry…It is nail biting times for everyone but sharing from court tells as a lot. Doesn’t mean that’s what the jury thinks, but I like to thing they are chosen to represent us all. (without prejudice no cone-heads or idiots or folks with a vendetta against the world!)

      Be on best behaviour onlookers, Gerry has a long lens!

      Liked by 3 people

  46. Hi All,

    I have been following this case from day one, reading this website daily and I don’t think I will sleep tonight, as I pray the jury find him guilty!

    I love my child with all my heart as do all mum’s and never knew how much my mum loved me till I had mt baby girl. That gives me hope that in the years to come Allison’s girls will become mums and they will then understand just how much their mum loved them.

    She stayed strong for those girls put up with his bullshit to give her babies a happy home and a dad. This man (I am loathed to even call him a man) is so evil that he sat on his dead wife’s birthday in court and laughed about “The day I test drove my Lexus I owned it” He is sickening! I hope to make it to court tomorrow to see him in and hope I get to see the look on his face when they say he is guilty!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Hear, hear Brissy Mum!! Being mums I feel it is hitting us all in a different way to men….& I don’t mean to make that sound condescending to all the WONDERFUL men on here & you are wonderful, caring men. The person who made my life hell for 9yrs was my partners ex wife & even though I hated her with a passion & feel sad that she will never get to experience the things that mums should with their children…daughters in particular. She passed away 7yrs ago. The girls (her daughters, I had sons) have had their formals & boyfriends & broken hearts & I’ve been the one to hold them & console them & the pleasure of being their proud mum. No mum should have to miss out on that.

      Liked by 1 person

  47. Well said, Little Fish, Turn,Turn,Turn, the key, to inmate Gerald Baden Clay in his new prison cell, a time to lose his freedom and a time to reap what he sow, a time for him to weep and a time for hate, amongst his other cell mates – and a time to for him to spend many a season behind bars!…..Turn, Turn , Turn. Watching the Byrds, ha, ha, that is Birds on the razor wire and muster- exercise yard!………………

    Liked by 3 people

  48. Hi. Long time stalker, first time poster. I was just wondering if th jury get to go over t bail application court documents cause there was a lot of good info that wasn’t shown during this hearing. Not sure why things like the forensic accounting that showed how broke the tosser was

    Liked by 1 person

  49. To anyone who is interested and im sure many of the posters on here would be. Season 1 of True Detective is out on dvd. HBO series and truly worth watching.


  50. Thank you Gerry Rocks for your thoughts and photos on yesterday’s proceedings. It’s good to read what your feeling is, sitting in the court room, one of a guilty verdict on the way. I followed the media release of what Fuller said in his closing statement (I’m sure they don’t quite capture the full extent of it) but from what I read, it sounded solid to me and he has managed to tie it all together very well so it seems.

    I particularly liked his statement that the scratches on GBC’s face are the most damning evidence. I strongly believe those scratches were Allison’s deliberate way of letting her struggle be known, she was marking her attacker, it was her final testament. So I pray that the jury listens to her. I have always believed from the moment I saw Allison’s face and discovered what had happened in the news that justice would be served, so I will hold on to my sixth sense about that.

    Liked by 2 people

  51. I suspect at this ungodly hour I am talking to myself (can I steal your name SLEEPLESS) but cos I can’t sleep been doing a bit of research on ’empaths’ and ‘narcissists’ which I have cut and pasted if anyone is interested. I found it very interesting:
    Empaths have an incredible capacity for self-sacrifice and are often found volunteering or dedicating time to help others. People naturally feel comfortable sharing their feelings with an Empath because of their incredible ability to feel compassion and connect with others. Whereas a Narcissist does not connect well with others in a real compassionate way, an Empath connects too much. *****When Empaths are around compassion, love and peace, they flourish. However, when surrounded by an emotional vampire, like the Narcissist, an Empath is destroyed and ravaged.****An Empath absorbs the negativity, fear and rage of a Narcissist. So much so that they take on these problems as their own and try to fix things for their friend or partner.

    This is precisely what a Narcissist is looking for in a friend or partner and exactly why they seek out any kind of relationship with Empaths.

    The Narcissist chooses us for a reason.

    They choose us because we are compassionate, driven, strong, successful and intelligent.

    They need someone to take care of their never-ending child-like needs and certainly are not going to choose someone who can’t provide for them. They know they can take a lot from us and gain significantly by being in a relationship with us. They want to be taken care of and choose strong people to partner with for a reason.

    Overall, I believe being an Empath is truly a gift, however, we must be careful not to allow others to take advantage of us.

    Allison was an empath. And for that god-given gift she has been crucified.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. Some great posts everyone, very interesting reading. Thank you so much gerryrocks for your amazing photos.
    Haven’t been on much the last few days as have been in bed with a massive headache and feel in such a ‘muddle’, can’t think straight.


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