Gerard Baden-Clay Hearing 24th September 2012


Baden-Clay brief of evidence complete

ALL 466 statements in the murder case against Gerard Baden-Clay have now been finalised, a court has heard.

Lawyers for the accused wife killer appeared before the Brisbane Magistrates Court today where it was revealed the brief of evidence is now complete and five outstanding statements have been handed in.

They were an autopsy report, a forensic computer analysis report, a financial analysis report, a hydrology report and principal investigators‘ statements.

The matter will return to court on November 5 for a mention and again on November 20 when applications will be made for the cross examining of witnesses.

“I would anticipate that there would be quite detailed submissions,” defence counsel Darren Mahony told the court.

Baden-Clay has been charged with murdering his wife Allison and interfering with her corpse.

The mother-of-three was reported missing on the morning of April 20 when Baden-Clay told police she had failed to return from a morning walk.

Her body was found 10 days later on the banks of the Kholo Creek.

Baden-Clay’s defence receives key statements

September 24, 2012 – 11:55AM

 

Marissa Calligeros

 

The brief of evidence against accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay has been completed, with the addition of five statements that are of major significance to the case.

The final material includes the results of the autopsy, forensic computer analysis and financial analysis as well as a hydrology report and a statement from the principal police investigator, prosecutor Danny Boyle told Brisbane Magistrates Court this morning.

Mr Boyle said the brief, containing 466 witness statements, was “voluminous” and requested the court to allow both parties nearly two months to reach an agreement upon which witnesses would be called at trial and cross-examined.

Mr Baden-Clay was arrested in June and charged with murdering his wife Allison Baden-Clay, the mother of their three children, whose body was found by a canoeist in Kholo Creek 10 days after he reported her missing in April.

The 41-year-old real estate agent has been remanded in custody since then. He was not in court today.

In the brief mention of the case today, Mr Baden-Clay’s defence lawyer Darren Mahony said he was confident an agreement could be reached between the parties about the cross-examination of certain witnesses by November 5.

The hearing for the application to cross-examine witnesses has tentatively been scheduled for November 20, but the matter is listed again for mention on November 5.

Court documents have previously revealed that Mr Baden-Clay’s debts totalled about $1 million. It is alleged he stood to gain about $960,000 from his wife’s life insurance and superannuation policies.

Mrs Baden-Clay’s father Geoffrey Dickie won control of his late daughter’s estate earlier this month after producing evidence that his son-in-law had arranged, from his prison cell, the sale of a Paradise Point home the couple owned.

2,476 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Hearing 24th September 2012

  1. Excuse me if this has been reported by others earlier. There are no prizes for coming first Doha.

    Answers to questions, which have been asked over the months and I would have liked to have known:

    This is straight from the autopsy report –
    Allison’s body had two rings on her left ring finger, a gold band engraved G&A and the date of their wedding plus another ring with a gold band and a single ‘jewel’ in a setting. (The person doing the autopsy is not a jeweller and so he did not presume as to what the ‘jewel’ might be.)

    A full body CT scan showed no obvious fractures including the hyoid bone (this one comes up in CSI episodes – I believe that the hyoid bone can be broken as a result of manual strangulation.)

    Clothes:
    ‘Bonds’ brand jumper
    “Short stories’ brand purple singlet (shoe string straps) with incorporated bra
    ‘Katies’ brand dark coloured ¾ length pants, no pockets
    Underpants
    Short white socks with darker blue band at the top
    ‘Lynx’ brand white sneakers with some blue areas – laces tied up.

    The rest has either been in msm or will come out under cross examination at the hearing/trial. I don’t have the stomach to put gory details, no apology.

    Like

        • “Is that another crone stirring the cauldron? lol… I didn’t notice you there beside me… of course they did QCL.”. Actually MM I do believe QCls question regards shoelaces is a pertitent question. The angle in which you tie your laces depends which way you are facing towards the shoe. If someone else put the shoes on and tied them it begs the question why. It would place that person in the BC house and Alison in a position in which she was unable to tie her own laces. It could be potentially very damning for GBC as the only place the shoes would have been were in their hom.

          Like

      • Very good question. It may show if someone else (eg GBC) tied the laces. When facing the show and tying your own the angle of the bow and the way the ends falls is different. As Alison would only have kept the shoes at her house it could be quite damning if the angle of the bow and the way the ends fell indicated the bow was tied by someone facing the opposite direction to the wearer of the shoe.

        Like

      • Good question. The direction you face whrn tying laces determines the angle of the bow and which way the ends fall. There could be a sinister connotation if the ends pointed away from Alison suggesting someone else (eg
        GBC) in the house tied the laces

        Like

    • “The hyoid is the U-shaped bone of the neck that is fractured in one-third of all homicides by strangulation. On this basis, postmortem detection of hyoid fracture is relevant to the diagnosis of strangulation. However, since many cases lack a hyoid fracture, the absence of this finding does not exclude strangulation as a cause of death. The reasons why some hyoids fracture and others do not may relate to the nature and magnitude of force applied to the neck, age of the victim, nature of the instrument (ligature or hands) used to strangle, and intrinsic anatomic features of the hyoid bone.”

      Got this from U.S National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health – Fracture of the hyoid bone in strangulation: comparison of fractured and unfractured hyoids from victims of strangulation.

      Re: clothing. They sound like something I’d wear if out walking.
      Thanks for having the grace to omit the gory details, Mountain Misst.

      Like

    • HI MM, I must say I am really shocked to read what the autopsy report stated about the jewellery Allison was wearing. The photo taken of Allison with her family ( Dickie family ) December 2011…about 11 weeks before her death she was wearing on her left hand on her ring finger a gold band, it looks to be a trendy gold band which spreads from the bottom of her finger to the bottom knuckle of the same finger and is slightly rounded off at the top. Allisons right hand and the same finger she had a gold ring with a blue stone in the middle with diamonds around the blue stone and on her little finger on her right hand she was wearing a gold band which looked like a wedding ring…however this ring on her little finger was very tight. On her right wrist she is wearing a silver bracelet similar to a charm bracelet and on her left wrist it could quiet possibly be a silver watch with a very wide band, however looks more like a bracelet….it isn’t uncommon these days not to wear a watch as most people have mobiles which give us the time. Only 7 more days !!!!! can’t wait !!!!!!

      Like

  2. Well …methinks some posters drawin’ a long bow!

    1.Most well brought up women brush plant material off their clothes before they
    a) wash them or b) put them away for next gardening session.
    2.Most unlikely that Allison would have done any gardening at that time of night after having her hair beautifully done at the hairdressers that evening.
    3.Forensics can date plant DNA to distinguish the age of the plant material, so be able to tellhow long it had been there. Now if the plant material had all been there only since 19th April 2012 most likely Forensic testing would be able to determine this.
    4. If Allison ‘brushed against some plant material’ was she horizontal when she did that?
    5. If she had only brushed past some plant material then most likely it would have fallen off – don’t you think? The effects of gravity and all …

    Like

    • There is NO way that Allison would have risked contaminating her beautiful new hairdo with plant material or any other matter, be it from the garden, clothes line, kitchen, or anywhere else. She would even have been thoughtful how she would sleep with same. Keep in nice. It was done in fact in preparation for the morrow’s conference.

      Like

        • Not wanting to reignite the silly talk about suicide, but just looked at some stuff where Mr Boyle said ‘at no stage does he suggest she was suicidal’ and that ‘what I’m submitting is, at least in his version to police, he’s not suggesting anything but an amicable end to that conversation and nothing likely to have triggered suicide.

          Perhaps the talk of suicide grew out of desperation and clutching at straws for freedom. Actually, it makes me even more wild, to think that even in death, rubbish is thrown at an innocent victim.

          What does society do with males who are born with their brain misplaced in their penis, which leads to such terrible behaviour and actions?

          Like

        • I am reading you loud and clear Caro. Just clarifying, spelling out in fine print for anyone trying to draw the long bow.

          Like

  3. Doha, thanks for the reply. I have a few observations as well as a couple more questions.

    You say:”I completely agree they were devastated by Alison’s death and their distress at the funeral was palpable.”
    It sounds as if you were there. Most bloggers were not and interpreted body language on photos and/or video.

    You say GBC “did not describe the light coloured cardigan, which would add weight that Alison later left the house after GBC went to bed”. It can just as well be a strategy to LOOK as if he did not know what she had on. Also I think it is quite normal for partners not to take 100% notice of what each other is wearing at any given moment. So I don’t think this proves anything really.

    You say much about Luminol and “blood type” testing, I have not even heard “blood type” mentioned before. Prosecution says it’s hers. Luminol and blood typing can not prove identity so by implication they must have used DNA.

    Re the 6 varieties of plant material from near her patio found in ABC’s hair, arms and body, you say:” Could she have come home from the hairdressers and walked in the garden, taken clothes of the line and brushed against plant life….etc. “
    This sounds highly improbable. I regularly walk in my garden, take clothes off my line etc and you will not find 6 varieties of plant material in my hair and spread over parts of my body after any of these events. Allison had her hair specially done for her appointment the next morning. It seems unlikely she would have rolled or crawled around on her patio and got herself soiled in this way unless she was forced to during an altercation or was dragged through such material in an incapacitated state.

    Re what happened to Allison you mention 2 main alternate theories:
    1) BGC and Allison got into a physical fight during which she scratched him, (you think he did not retaliate??) and she walked out into the night to cool down after the argument to clear her head… and met with foul play.
    2) Alison left the Brookfield home, traveled to Kholo by an unidentified means and took her own life” and “the fact she had long standing depression, was under a lot of personal, marital and financial stress means that suicide cannot be absolutely discounted.

    These have been discussed before and discounted as highly improbable.

    I noticed that you used the same phrase as TMcH allegedly used in her police report – “met with foul play”….

    You go on to say “There was huge interest in the Brookfield roundabout but does not appear any BC cars were identified going around it. This makes the use of BC cars more circumstantial”
    QUESTION: How do you know this?

    You also say: “There was no forensic evidence eg mud, plant material etc. that placed the Captiva at Kholo bridge that night.”
    QUESTION: How do you know this?

    Re the sudden complete write-off as a ‘mistake’ of what was previously detailed evidence of a face time call at a very particular time and for a very particular duration, just seems odd. I trust in time it will be clarified.

    For a talented and loving mother of 3 young children to be murdered and discarded in the way Allison was, is awful. With the committal just around the corner, speculation will ease as more facts will start coming to light. The most important thing is that TRUTH and JUSTICE prevails.

    Like

    • Well said R.I.P. I rarely notice what people are wearing and would be hard-pressed to recall what was worn the night before.

      In my opinion TMcH is not an innocent player in this tragedy. To succumb to baser instincts and place self-gratification ahead of your own children says what about a person?

      Like

      • I think the identified mistress of 4 years duration is not an innocent in all of this either. Regardless of an attraction, he was a married man with a wife and three dependant children. He was part of a family. IMO there was lack of judgement on your part and pressure placed upon him to leave his family. There appears to have been a degree of influence to ‘rip’ relationships apart regardless of emotional consequences to those concerned. Why didn’t you just walk away rather than issue him with ultimatums? Did it become a ‘power struggle’ to win GBC from Allison at all costs? Was that your fantasised triumph? Well, my dear, there have been devastating, irreversable consequences which have tragically changed the lives of those involved forever. Three little girls have had their own much loved mother removed from them forever. IMO you were the one who should have moved on and left this family to sort out its problems – without your influence.Divorce was always an option this family could have been assisted with.
        My opinion only.

        Like

        • Caro, he needed the money too much to divorce. Anyone who rings their wife’s insurance company the day a body has been found, *before* identification, doesn’t give two shits about her. IMO, when he gave TM a date for him being untethered from Allison, he didn’t have separation/divorce in mind.

          Like

          • Agreed. It seems that HE didn’t have separation/divorce in mind, too much to lose, money, custody of children and reputation.The post above is written for the attention of the alleged mistress of 4 years.

            Like

            • As I recall GBC told TMCH that he ‘could not afford a divorce’ but would ‘sort something out’ to find a way to be with her by 1st July (which is co-incidentally Allison’s birthday.)

              Like

    • Hi RIP
      I wrote a detailed response on Sunday but it appears to have disappeared into the “ether”. I would have to spend time searching for the links again and if I have time I will reply again later.

      As the committal is so close, I hope our questions will be answered. You have made some valid points regards GBC and the cardigan. All I have hoped to achieve is to point out their may be an alternative and I stress MAY because, as I have stated on a number of occasions I believe he is probably guiltly..

      The Defence are likely to vigorously defend the charges and I also hold this an integral principle in a free and democratic society which supports the notion of “innocent until proven guilty”. If there are lies, inconsistencies, holes and cover ups in the story, it will become obvious to the jury if and when it goes to trial. If he has lied and tried to cover up, the reality will be a longer sentence. Courts do not look favourably on guilty parties who have lied and tried to cover up.

      We may still have an incomplete picture at committal as the Defence will not call their witnesses. Their role is to clarify and test the veracity of the evidence against GBC. GBC will not be put on the stand at committal. Hopefully the alternate theories and questions I have will be raised and most probably refuted if they have a solid case. If that is the case then I will be happy that alternatives have been explored and proved unlikely or impossible–my nagging doubts will have been put to rest.. Where I do have problems personally when I read entries, purporting to be fact that have never been published and I am unsure whether it insider knowledge or conjecture. I believe no one is completely evil and GBC and his family do have good qualities as well. . However if he did murder Alison, then he deserves to spend his life in jail.

      I also sincerely hope the prosecution are well prepared and they have been thorough. Revelations such as the non-existent face time call are cause for concern. However a greater concern would be if a guilty man walked free.because the jury could not necessarily believe other evidence as the truth.

      Like

      • Doha, the alternate theories you call ‘yours’ (Allison being killed by someone else other than GBC or committing suicide) are not new, they have been considered long ago already and everyone decided there is no evidence to support either but plenty to support GBC did it.

        To use the BC camp’s phrase which you did too “Allison met with foul play”, yes sadly she did indeed meet with VERY foul play – seemingly betrayed in the worst possible way by a person/s she knew and actually cared about.

        Can you please answer my 2 March questions put to you?

        Like

        • Hi RIP
          If GBC had driven around the roundabout there would have been evidence of GBC leaving the house or how Alsion got to Kholo Creek.
          ttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/accused-wifekiller-gerard-badenclay-denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz2Mqatpy00
          no evidence to show GBC left the family home on the night of the alleged murder

          http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

          No evidence to show GBC had left his home on the night she disappeared.

          Defence barrister Peter Davis said there was no evidence on whether she’d walked or been driven to Kholo Creek.

          Mr Davis tendered a report to the court on a sampling of wheel arches of the Holden Captiva and clothing of Baden-Clay, including a pair of shoes, which showed no matches with soil samples taken from Kholo Creek.

          http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/lawyers-for-gerard-baden-clay-seeking-bail-before-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434

          Like

          • Having a look at what the Courier Mail reported it actually appears like a game with both sides throwing in the word ‘suicide’ so as to suggestively lodge that thought in your head. After learning about the plant samples on Allison’s body and her clothes along with the ramifications of GBC coming home and having to announce the presence of the other woman in the morrow’s seminar.. the only thought that can be reasonably deduced is that: Allison was doing some light gardening (possibly after getting her hair done, maybe even some light house duties, but definately in the garden when GBC got home.. An arguement ensued, GBC then physically stuffed an alarming amount of zoloft in Allison’s mouth causing her tooth to chip, (That is the image I see) I see a normally cool as a cucumber GBC rampant with a furious rage that someone like Allison could stuff everything up for a lot of people, because she was a nice, loyal, decent and honest person.

            I can not see the affair as having any real weight whatsoever, I can not see Allison as being that selfish to even consider suicide- besides that- she had 3 children that she loved and did not seek to use them as tools against GBC, she was probably a little in doubt about her and the kids welfare without him.. and I feel as though the entire event was focused on the Dodgey Real Estate business and the profit for all involved.

            Like

  4. Howdy. I noticed in the Valley (I am in Brisbane) today that there is a building called ‘Baden Powell’. Does anyone have any history? Just curious. It wasn’t dated. Pity Gerard was penniless, otherwise I am sure he would have loved to set up shop there. Perhaps his folks might.

    Like

    • For Sale by Public Auction

      Don’t miss your chance to secure Baden Powell House. A rare freestanding property in this vibrant corridor between the CBD and the energetic Valley Entertainment and Retail Precinct. This unique property offers astute investors or owner occupiers the change to renovate and capitalise on this outstanding opportunity.

      > Character building over 4 levels
      > Two street frontage
      > 288m² site area
      > GFA circa 914m² (approx)
      > VACANT POSSESSION

      Public Auction on site 11am, Wednesday 13th March 2013

      Like

  5. I know it’s a little off topic, but It looks like justice may prevail in the case of the Leahy/Arnold case. How any one could be led to think and pass judgement that this was ever a murder-suicide is beyond belief. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/families-rejoice-as-21-year-old-murder-suicide-finding-rejected-and-husband-ordered-to-face-court/story-e6freoof-1226588777132

    I am so glad that the families of these women, who have been suffering for so long, knowing what they know, and believing what they knew, have finally been given justice. Not that that will bring back their daughters.

    In Allison’s case, It’s easy to see why some of us are dismayed, and why others still have hope, hope that the police and the justice system have evolved in 20 years. At least let’s take solace in the fact that this man didn’t get away with it.

    Like

    • I remember when this happened up north and we (the public) were led to believe someone could shoot themselves 3 times. Also the inuendos about them being more than friends which was untrue. Never give up in the pursuit for justice I say, and full credit to the families for their determination in seeking the truth.
      A married man, an affair, his wife’s death. Sigh.

      Like

  6. And another thing. . . am I the only one who is amazed that EBC didn’t know what ‘taking the fith’ meant? A worldly, much-travelled woman? And that GBC had to research it to explain it to her? Maybe I just watch too many crime shows.

    Like

      • Yes RB He certainly appears to have a ready reason for every anomaly.
        Searched taking the fifth for Mummy.
        Caterpillar bites. Injury to chest.
        Changing a light bulb. Injury to hand.
        Coincidentally all anomalies occurred the night Allison was murdered.

        Like

  7. 8. Gerb the scholar.
    What unfortunate timing that Gerb chose such close proximity to his wife’s death and his having to immediately put into practice his study of self incrimination and pleading the 5th. Of all the topics one could choose to google in any week of one’s life … Bad luck the timing of that .. If I didn’t have an opinion otherwise this alone would make him look suspiciously guilty in my eyes….

    Like

    • ….and he had allegedly logged onto his phone and searched self incrimination just prior to contacting police and reporting Alison missing. So he had searched it twice. Court documents also revealed GBC called one of Allison’s insurance companies on April the 12th….before her death.

      Like

      • “At first glance it seems incriminating and, maybe, a little bit stupid.
        On April 18 this year, Gerard Baden-Clay Googled “taking the fifth” and “self incrimination”.
        Two days later he would report his wife, Allison, missing a few minutes after Googling self incrimination again. Two months later he would be charged with her murder and his Google searches used in a brief of evidence by the crown that indicated his guilt.

        Mr Davis also argued forensic examination of the phone showed when Mr Baden-Clay Googled “self incrimination” on April 20, minutes before he dialled triple-0 to report her missing, he only accessed the page for three seconds.
        His explanation was Mr Baden-Clay did not Google “self incrimination” that morning but the webpage “simply re-loaded”.”
        Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/sinister-motive-for-taking-the-fifth-challenged-20121217-2bj9y.html#ixzz2MSesTwfs

        Millie, I think that second google search has been discounted as a simple ‘reload’.
        Calling the insurance company prior to his wife’s death though? So many details to explain away, how can one man keep on top of it all? The mind must be in constant turmoil.

        Like

        • All going to prove that anyone can say anything at any time if it’s gonna keep one from incrimination or jail.

          Like

          • If you tell a lie often enough does it become ‘truth’ in the deluded mind? The lie being more palatable than the truth.

            Like

            • Thanks Reality Bites for the info on self incrimination as a re-load. So I am wondering now then….if it was a re-load, then when was it last loaded? Hmmm, I’m not too Iphone savvy, but wouldn’t it reload only if it was the last page searched? So that means he didn’t google anything else from the 18th till that morning. I am wondering too…..was the television show he was supposed to have watched ever confirmed to have been shown? which is why he apparently did the search in the first place…
              I think yes Reality Bites, the lie does become truth to the deluded mind.

              Like

                • Thanks Reality Bites. I did manage to google that as well and found the article. The article was saying he had watched The Good Wife which mentioned the term taking the fifth and his mother had asked what the term meant and so he googled it to explain it to her. Now I have also been searching when The Good Wife aired on channel 10. All I could find was Season 2 premiered on Wednesday nights from October 20, 2010, but was moved to Thursday nights at 8:30 pm from January 20, 2011……I wonder which episode mentioned taking the fifth? And why he googled the term on the 18th which, if he watched it Thursday 12th, would have been 1 week later or did the episode on Thursday 19th mention taking the fifth? This probably has no significance anyway….but I wonder a lot.

                  Like

  8. Hi I believe QCLs question regards shoelaces is pertitent. The direction you are facing when you tie them will affect the anhle of the bow. If someone else (eg. GBC) tied them he may have been facing the shoe from the opposite direction. This would beg the question why Alison could not put her own shoes on.

    Like

  9. The question by QCL regards whether the tied shoelaces were photographed is a good one. If you tie them yourself the bow faces a different direction than if someone else tied them while they were facing towards your feet. As the shoes would only have been kept at home that would leave GBC with lot of explsining if Alison did not tie her own laces.

    Like

    • Also, one of the shoelaces started to come undone according to the autopsy report. I don’t think decomposition would affect shoelaces. Who goes out without their shoelaces tied tightly? Geez, after decades of having kids I even tie my own with double knots.

      Like

  10. QCL made a very good point when she questioned if the tied shoelaces were photographed. The angle of the bow and which way the ends fell could determine whether Alison tied her own laces or someone else in her household (eg. GBC) tied them

    Like

    • I suspect a reasonably intelligent murderer who is taking active steps to avoid detection will know to tie their victim’s shoelaces from the same side as the victim would have. GBC does not appear very bright but I suspect bright enough to figure this out. Also he may have been reminded by one or more others….

      Like

  11. I want to put this as tactfully as I can, as it is seriously under consideration elsewhere. GBC did not mention the cardigan which Allison was wearing. This raises a question not just about his awareness of what his wife wears or doesn’t wear. The question is why was he so specific about other items and yet omits the cardigan in his description of what she was wearing?

    Note: We know that the hyoid wasn’t broken, right. Suffocation or strangulation by an item of clothing would not be likely to result in a hyoid break.

    By not mentioning the cardigan, this is a highly suspicious suggestion that this is the method by which he may have killed his wife, if indeed he did and he does not want to give the game away…

    There is more I could add here with a psychological basis for omission, however I’ll leave that for the cross examination.

    The cardigan was not dressed on the body normally when she was found. It was up over her head and her hands were caught up in it. I hinted of this earlier, when I said her hands were out of sight when the body was found and that’s perhaps where the rumour had come from that her hands were missing.

    Like

    • MM, so that could explain early media reports that police knew how Allison died as soon as they found her under the Kholo bridge. I have always wondered about that.

      Like

      • Hi ton 14th December Courier Mail reported the following

        http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/lawyers-for-gerard-baden-clay-seeking-bail-before-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434

        “But Mr Doyle said the man’s affidavit showed he saw a woman aged 30 to 40 years of age who put her hands in front of her face as his car headlights shone on her.

        He argued the man did not report seeing a light-coloured cardigan Mrs Baden-Clay was later found to be wearing.”

        Nevertheless I agree it is very odd that the jumper/cardigan was half inside out and pulled in such a way her hands were not visible. This makes the suicide theory much less likely. It appears to me more likely that someone else has pulled it up or caused it to be pulled up. I am at a loss for a logical explanation. If it actually was a cardigan as Mr Doyle suggested, iIf Alison was removing it herself, she would have taken one arm out before the other. Or at least that is how I take my cardigans off.

        Like

        • Considering that this family has done all in their power to draw attention, searchers and QPS away from real interests clues etc, it would not surprise me in the slightest to find this person seen was none other than a BC family member. A decoy.

          Like

      • Maybe the jumper was used to cover her face so whoever killed her didn’t have to see her face as they transported her, or perhaps the jumper was used to drag or drop her at some stage.

        Like

        • Don’t think he cared that much about seeing her face or not seeing her face.
          Don’t think he felt much feelings at all. An emotional abyss IMO.

          Like

          • I recall it being reported in a newspaper article, possibly Courier Mail, that when Allison was found, her face was in the mud. One hopes that somebody did not pull the jumper over to cover her face as they abandoned her there under the bridge – as if it was all done, all finished, move on with ‘business as usual’.
            Sociopathic disregard for human life IMO.

            Like

            • Caro in reading your last post, it was a reminder of why I suspect we all wish we could wrap our arms around Allison, gently push her hair back from her face, whisper cotton-wool soft words of comfort in her ear and assure her that the girls will be ok, that she will always be respected and being known by association to certain other people, in no way diminished her wonderful self. Their dirty deeds (or foul play), only highlight their failings and for that reason respect for her will continue to grow, along with regrets that she was unable to escape their world, alive.

              Reading your post also reignited my dismay at reading such callous posts as to her f’ing housekeeping skills, organization etc!!! Those words would have to be written by someone who is divorced from reality or devoid of compassion and empathy or a combination if the two.

              Bad things do happen to good people and let us live in hope that good conquers evil. Apparently some people are just born that way, evil, I mean.

              Like

  12. Been thinking about a matter, together with jumper/ cardigan and intact hyoid.
    Broad soft ligature. Jumper/cardigan over her head with hands still in sleeves.
    Body dead or alive and suspended over the Kholo Bridge railings, using the jumper as a ligature and also the item with which to hang her, them drop her.

    Like

      • Inexplicably, an image which came to mind when I learned of Allison’s
        location was of her being hung over the edge of the Kholo Bridge.

        Like

            • “there was no evidence she’d fallen”
              Does not specifically clarify whether she
              (a) had fallen
              (b) had been dropped
              (c) had been thrown
              (d) or had been hung, swung, dangled, twisted, and then dropped, dumped.

              Like

              • I would imagine if whoever took/put/placed Allison in that God-damn-awful place, had to take a big risk if they actually left the vehicle/s and carried either a body, or an unconscious Allison onto the bridge to dispose of her. When you drive down onto and over the bridge, there really is no-where to run and hide, unless of course there was a driver and a passenger (as in other than Allison) and said passenger did a quick dump and run. I am trying to say that if another vehicle approached the bridge at a similar time, if someone were on the bridge disposing of her, they would be trapped. While it might not have been a time of greater traffic volume, the risk of not encountering a vehicle would be a big one to take. Alternatively, there is room to park off-road before the bridge and while I can’t type the words but if Allison was carried to that awful spot, it could be done undetected. You almost want to think of her as being lovingly carried and not handled like a piece of rubbish. I feel sick thinking about it.

                Like

                • Agree about the big risk Little Fish. Could be done in a very short time though. Park on the bitumen, remove A from vehicle, unconscious or otherwise, and swing her over the railing ASAP. Possibly wearing latex gloves.

                  Like

                • Been thinking: Little Fish, Further to taking such a big risk by stopping on the Kholo Bridge and depositing a body without being seen.
                  Stop car and switch off the motor.
                  Silence. Listen. One would hear any oncoming vehicle for up to two minutes away. Could even be more.
                  Headlights oncoming would be visible a long time in advance, also.

                  Like

                • I am actually shaking after reading your message.. It does seem to appear that with the ‘witnesses’ statement in regards to seeing a woman matching Allison’s description that put her hands in front of her face, could have been the passenger, to provoke a witness statement in that locale.. OMG.. Allison’s family must be heart-broken.. Those beautiful girls without her and still having to engage with GBC’s family.. Justice will prevail and on a larger scale than Allison’s family could ever imagine..

                  Like

  13. And if the hanging didn’t kill her, the fall would. As there were no broken bones, the body would have been unconscious or deceased before hitting the ground.

    Like

    • Bones can break after death QCL. Sadly I accidentally broke a deceased man’s arm when an AIN. My thoughts are that the jumper is over head because of her being dragged, but all will come out in the trial.

      Like

      • Hi Ozmosis, That would have been a one off thing to happen. Highly unusual. But as you say not impossible.
        Was he an OLD man with brittle bones? Or did he have an underlying undetected fracture.
        Aside: Geez …. sledgehammer?

        Like

          • Hi Oz, I can relate to that also…..was a young deceased very large man …..1-2-3 and ‘oh crap!!!! the brake on the morgue trolley wasn’t on and the poor guy ended up on the floor, so we the 3 of us then had to fill out an incident report as you can brake their bones.

            Like

  14. The latex glove fingertip may have been worn by the assailant and become caught in the jumper and twisted off during the hanging dangling. Fair bit of weight to be swinging by a jumper/cardigan.
    There was no opportunity to retrieve the glove piece once the body was released and dropped.

    Like

    • Hmmm I’ve been thinking about this too QCL and I can’t imagine they would have taken the risk of being seen standing on the bridge. I am wondering if the possibility is more with being dragged or carried to where she was found…..and/or her killer/s couldn’t handle seeing her face after murdering her….just wondering?

      Like

        • I happen to know the Kholo Bridge quite well, having used it for both personal outings and professional travel in the area but prior to this timeline.
          There was always an area where you could park leading down to the banks of the creek. However, I have not returned following the floods of 2011 when it was simply no longer there. During late 2011/early 2012 though, it may have been resurrected for public use and access? Another thing to consider is the unforgiving rain that fell around the time of Allison’s demise. I’ve not travelled there at night, but if it is anything like the surrounding suburbs, it would have been pitch black and any car lights would definitely have been obvious. Perhaps a local can shed more light on whether the bank for parking was back in action around the crucial time?

          Like

          • GHS it is my understanding that there is a little area on the right before the bridge coming from Brookfield way. I am pretty sure that is also the side of the bridge where Allison was found – just down the bank from that parking area. That is what makes me think the car/s were parked there and disposed of Allison’s body either by dragging or rolling her down the creek bank. That’s how I think it may have went GHS. But I could be wrong.

            Like

  15. GBC has not mentioned the cardigan/ jumper.
    GBC has been quite adept at omission. Half truths.
    GBC seems quite comfortable and interested even about answering questions about himself. Able to look his questioner in the eye.
    When asked about Allison, his demeanour is different. Unable to look his questioner in the eye.
    MM, your observations about how he answers a question is interesting. Clever avoidance tactic.
    “By not mentioning the cardigan, this is a highly suspicious suggestion that this is the method by which he may have killed his wife”

    Like

  16. Been thinking about the latex glove finger tip. And the possibility of “sloppy forensics”
    Those forensic people or those people retrieving and handling the body would have worn gloves. They would know the colour, type and brand of the gloves they were wearing. They would also know for 100% certain, if a piece of the glove they were wearing ended up either being torn off or ended up with the body. It is not that easy for a piece of glove to be torn off. Unless it gets caught in something.
    The moment they removed their gloves, they would know if some was missing. Check they, they would know immediately if their glove broke, or lost its integrity.
    First thing he or she would need to do would be scrub his or her hands very well and carefully.
    Second thing, report or mention the matter to another person on the scene. Very important.

    Like

    • Hope this “glove piece with body” detail was not automatically put down to sloppy forensics. The fellow who was in charge of the retrieval operation appeared to be extremely meticulous, thoughtful and thorough.

      Like

    • Perhaps whoever rammed the Zoloft in Allison’s mouth causing the chipped tooth, lost the end of their latex glove. Do you know whether GBC’s Mother or father visit with Allison at all in the two to three weeks prior to the discovery of Allison?

      Like

    • In preparation for autopsy, the tip of a latex glove fell out of Allison’s jumper. There has been conjecture as to whose glove it was. Consensus is, after considering the description, that it originated at the recovery of the body – i.e. police or firemen who did the winching of the stretcher or someone else in the recovery team. There is nothing suspicious necessarily Lilli.

      Like

        • Good question Samantha.
          If an over smart person was trying to dispose of someone leaving no traces, they would probably wear gloves to remove eliminate evidences. If that person was in in a bit of a hurry, quite possible that a bit of glove tip might become twisted off during a drop off. (Accidentally,)
          Agree totally, that glove tip and DNA discovered therein is vital.

          Like

  17. Hey Doha. If you are around, could you please just let us know (I notice a couple of other posters have also asked whether you attended the funeral – re the ‘palpable’ comment), whether you did in fact attend the funeral, as that would mean you are close to the girls, and I don’t want to be insensitive.

    Cheers and thanks.

    Like

    • No Little Fish, I wasn’t at the funeral but could see the anguish in their faces when I viewed pictures of the funeral. I sensed their distress from that.

      Like

      • I thought their faces were greyed out in the images of Allison’s funeral. At least they were in all the images I saw.

        Like

        • Hi SFA not all reports had the decency to black out their faces. There was one photo I remember of the girls saying goodbye. The youngest 2 had their hands on the coffin while the eldest stood behind them. They were visibly distressed and my heart went out to them.

          Like

          • the pictures of the children were indeed greyed out – you could only read their body language – no facial images were ever available anyway what is the point of this they would have been shattered!

            Like

            • I went back to check whether my memory served me correctly and there was a photo as I described published by the Herald Sun without blacked out faces. I don’t believe it is appropriate to give the link. You are correct regards the body language.

              Like

  18. Allison suffered a subdural haemorrhage – subdural haemorrhage (SDH), is a type of hematoma,usually associated with traumatic brain injury. Blood gathers within the outermost meningeal layer, between the dura mater, which adheres to the skull, and the arachnoid mater, which envelops the brain. Usually resulting from tears in bridging veins which cross the subdural space, subdural hemorrhages may cause an increase in intracranial pressure (ICP), which can cause compression of and damage to delicate brain tissue. Subdural hematomas are often life-threatening when acute.
    I doubt she would have walked 14 k’s with this type of injury.

    Like

    • AV is th subdural haemorrhage confirmed as fact? Do you have a more detailed source than the news reports?

      The Courier Mail reported on 14 December regards Danny Boyle ” He said a pathology report showed the degree of decomposition of Mrs Baden-Clay’s body was significant and effectively “destroyed or concealed” evidence of the cause of death.

      Mr Boyle said the pathologist indicated the possibility Mrs Baden-Clay sustained a subdural haemorrhage, a chipped tooth and bruising on her interior chest wall, indicating an impact on the chest region of “a mild degree of force”.

      He said the pathology report indicated strangulation and smothering were also possible causes of death that couldn’t be ruled out.”

      My understanding from this is that the sub-dural was a possiblity but not a definite fact. Obvioulsy this will become clearer when expert witnesses are examined and cross-examined..
      -

      Like

  19. Her thoracic cavity, revealed “there was an an area of apparent haemorrhage overlying the anterior 4th to 6th ribs on the interior aspect.”
    Would this be caused by her attacker’s knee pushing into her as she fought for her life?
    As noted by AV, I doubt she would have walked 14 k’s with this type of injury.

    Like

  20. 7. Nice day to clean the house and cars before work…
    Once again Gerbs choice of timing has to place him under immense suspicion. You’ve just called the police to report your wife missing so what to do next? Of course … wash and clean the cars thoroughly inside and out after hitting the house with a good dose of Dettol….

    Aah QCL I did the deadline in number 28 .. Thought you would have remembered lol…. It was worded something like … Gerb had a hard deadline to be out of his marriage and to be with his true love GG… On excellent advice I changed this to … To Be with his true love – HIMSELF …

    Not long now the final countdown has reached our last week …. Bring on the cross examinations .. Gerb , dad, sis , mum , GG , tweeting pastor … Time to fess up or commit perjury .. Make your choice …

    Like

    • Hi ICanCu
      Can you please tell me where it was reported GBC cleaned the house with Dettol or washed and cleaned the cars inside and out?

      The only report I have read is in relation to NBC and a vacuum cleaner but I am happy to be enllightened.

      Like

    • SO! … given that the girls were allegedly in the house that morning, they would have witnessed the clean up or aspects of it … such as grandpa was cleaning this, Auntie was cleaning that …etc.

      Like

  21. Snicker snicker. How could I forget that …. he needed to be with his own true love…himself.
    How true.
    Can’t work out why GG thought she was it.
    I mean the bloke is married, has three children, is an overt flirt, has no qualms about cheating on his wife, is shady in business and is a liar. Why would anyone believe a single word that comes out of his mouth? Until he is found out in other extra marital affairs.

    Like

    • HI MM, I must say I am really shocked to read what the autopsy report stated about the jewellery Allison was wearing. The photo taken of Allison with her family ( Dickie family ) December 2011…about 11 weeks before her death she was wearing on her left hand on her ring finger a gold band, it looks to be a trendy gold band which spreads from the bottom of her finger to the bottom knuckle of the same finger and is slightly rounded off at the top. Allisons right hand and the same finger she had a gold ring with a blue stone in the middle with diamonds around the blue stone and on her little finger on her right hand she was wearing a gold band which looked like a wedding ring…however this ring on her little finger was very tight. On her right wrist she is wearing a silver bracelet similar to a charm bracelet and on her left wrist it could quiet possibly be a silver watch with a very wide band, however looks more like a bracelet….it isn’t uncommon these days not to wear a watch as most people have mobiles which give us the time. Only 7 more days !!!!! can’t wait !!!!!!

      Like

  22. HI MM, I must say I am really shocked to read what the autopsy report stated about the jewellery Allison was wearing. The photo taken of Allison with her family ( Dickie family ) December 2011…about 11 weeks before her death she was wearing on her left hand on her ring finger a gold band, it looks to be a trendy gold band which spreads from the bottom of her finger to the bottom knuckle of the same finger and is slightly rounded off at the top. Allisons right hand and the same finger she had a gold ring with a blue stone in the middle with diamonds around the blue stone and on her little finger on her right hand she was wearing a gold band which looked like a wedding ring…however this ring on her little finger was very tight. On her right wrist she is wearing a silver bracelet similar to a charm bracelet and on her left wrist it could quiet possibly be a silver watch with a very wide band, however looks more like a bracelet….it isn’t uncommon these days not to wear a watch as most people have mobiles which give us the time. Only 7 more days !!!!! can’t wait !!!!!!

    Like

      • sadly, the initial photos taken of the children at Allisons funeral didn’t have their faces blocked out…thankfully they were blocked out a few weeks later

        Like

        • Bewilderment is the impression I got seeing the girls’ faces (from uncovered images) at their Mothers’s funeral. My feeling was that perhaps they were in shock, living a bad dream, one from which they would wish they could wake up from, and Mummy would be there with open arms.

          None of us know what was going through their minds, what they had been told etc. My opinion, and mine only, is that their grief and devastation is in its infancy. Poor darlings.

          Like

          • Where on earth do you see images of the girls faces? Everything I can see (even now) has their faces greyed out. I thought there were legal issues with regards to showing children’s faces in the media, especially in relation to crime. I am appalled that they are visible, what an invasion of privacy for a family who has been through so much.

            Like

          • The grief and loss experienced by Allison’s girls is inevitable. She was their main carer, their mother. IMO something would be wrong with their emotional development if they did not experience a sense of loss and grief. IMO they are now in good hands – being nurtured and cared for.

            Like

  23. ICanCU Agree, nice day to clean house.
    The same house that looked like it hadn’t a good clean for quite some time.
    On the very same day that Allison was reported missing.
    On the same day that NBC was there when the QPS were there, and came downstairs, went underneath the house and came back with a vacuum cleaner and green garden hose, and was starting to load them into the Holden Statesman. (Another ready reason from GBC: Real Estate odd jobs)
    The sergeant just happened to be outside at this moment.

    Like

    • ” …and came back with a vacuum cleaner and green garden hose, and was starting to load them into the Holden Statesman…”. Vacuum for the car interior?
      Garden hose to hose down the back patio? Invaluable circumstantial evidence IMO>

      Like

    • ” …and came back with a vacuum cleaner and green garden hose, and was starting to load them into the Holden Statesman…”. Vacuum for the car interior?
      Garden hose to hose down the back patio? Invaluable circumstantial evidence IMO.

      Like

    • Are you serious about NBC and vac and hose? Is that hand on heart, honest fact? OMG. I recall seeing detectives with gloves on looking in the old statesman tank at skull manor but wasn’t sure why? Initial thoughts were maybe Allison had spent time in there. Or does only happen in fiction murders?

      Like

  24. On the subject of priorities: And here is the scene:
    Your wife has gone missing and you are concerned.
    Do you
    (a) Get the children off to school with your sister.
    (b) Get your father over to your house with vacuum cleaner and garden hose to do some odd jobs Real Estate wise.
    (c) Try and find your wife, coordinating your efforts with others.
    (d) Call your wife’s parents and discuss the situation in full detail.

    Like

    • (e) do you Google “pleading the 5th” and “self-incrimination” for your mother.

      At least the cops double checked the tv show from the previous week. I guess there is nothing a cop can hear that they haven’t heard before – sigh.

      Like

  25. Thank you MM for posting the site re: The Good Wife. I had found a similar blogging site which gave me the info for the 2012 series.

    I must say there’s going to be a lot of stories and events for that family to remember. If they’re telling the truth, then it shouldn’t be a problem….but if they’re lying, they’re gonna have to have a good memory……

    Like

  26. 6. Means .. Gerb knew the body dump site…
    Having been involved in the scouts Gerb would have been aware of the Scouts camp only several hundred metres from the Kholo Creek bridge. Being a real estate agent in the area he would have been very familiar with quiet roads and secluded locations.

    Like

    • Yes, undoubtedly…could also apply to most members of the BC clan as they were also involved in the Real Estate Business and Scouting movement.

      Like

  27. In terms of the Kholo Creek parking … From my recollection of the site prior to it becoming infamous it was very overgrown and there was not really a parking spot anywhere close. It was all cleared significantly once Allisons body was found with lantana and grass being removed and a parking area being cleared which is still there today. The rains at the time had made it a very hostile lantana thicket style steep overgrown creek bank. I would really doubt anyone would be capable of dragging the body down there … More likely dropped over the edge .. Maybe trying for the water but lodged on the bank.. The creek is tidal from the nearby Brisbane River with about a metre variance in water level on a daily basis. One would think if the body had fallen into the centre of the creek and washed the 20 or 30 odd metres into the Brisbane River then the body would have been carried a considerable distance from the drop point given the flow intensity at the time … Nasty thoughts I know …

    Like

  28. 5. Why would Gerb spend 9 months in jail if he had a truthful explanation that would set him free. Why be Mr Silence when an open honest explanation can set you free? Why is no-one (apart from Doha and a tweeting pastor) campaigning for his innocence?

    Like

    • It’s been quiet for nearly 24 hrs. Where is everybody?
      I was just on the WS site which I have never been on before. Lots of peeps there and a rumour that NBC has been subpeoned and he will take drastic actions to avoid testifying in court. Hmmm? According to a local in the know?

      Like

          • lol. If he does that I’ll run starkers through the Queen Street Mall in Bris, and believe me that’s something you don’t want to see :-)

            Good morning all and have yourselves a beautiful day!

            Like

            • Haha… let me know RB and I’ll book a seat in the bleachers. The rumour that NBC was suicidal or had suicided was started on the ws site by a local as a stir to get people talking. It came up once before. NBC is seen out and about as cocky as ever, whereas Elaine is keeping more to the house.

              I have a someone ‘on the ground’ who tells me that things were very busy at skull manor yesterday.

              Like

            • I’m with you Reality Bites. He’s too proud. Word is – there are rumors a plenty, The Courier Mail rang to check the rumors.He answered the phone. He is alive an well.

              Like

      • Not surprised, perhaps if he had to speak the whole truth and nothing but the truth he might end up in a cell next to his son….

        Like

  29. Well may we say, “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Brazen Claye family from exemption from the Law.

    Like

  30. Hmmm….I’m a little confused now, given that the defence claimed Allison may have committed suicide. Sooo…when the committal begins; does the the prosecution need to be proving murder or is GBC going to be defending murder? I hope you guys know what i’m asking…because i’m really confused about this now.

    Like

    • Hi millie,

      The committal hearing is only for the Prosecution to present its case against GBC to the Court and for the Magistrate to decide if there is sufficient evidence against GBC that if it was presented at a full blown trial, a jury could prossibly convict him. The defence will cross-examine some of the prosecution witnesses but will not call any witnesses themselves or have to prove GBC’s “innocence”/doubt at this stage. Hope that makes sense…

      Like

    • You’re very kind :-) I have gone from snowstorms, blizzards, central heating to high humidity, cyclones brewing and aircon. Extremes indeed!

      Like

  31. Welcome back Yoshi! We were beginning to wonder what had become of you. As other posters have said, your timing couldn’t be better as there hasn’t been a lot happening with the case apart from a second bail application hearing in December.

    We really value your input and opinion here – just the other day I think I posted a legal question with a “where oh where is Yoshi?” :)

    Like

    • Thanks SFA… Great to be back!!! It’s actually been a few weeks, but been spending some quality time with the family… I actually assumed committal hearing would have already been done and dusted, so good timing indeed.

      As for your question the other day, I thought I felt my ears burning ;-)

      I forgot to add, it’s great to see some “regulars” still here and that the quest for justice for Allison lives on…

      Like

  32. Maybe an obscure point but I am wondering if when GBC sent his text messages to Allison the morning after she was killed that one of the girls may have heard the phone ping (if the phone was still in the house at that stage). Also, if the phone did go off it may have reminded GBC that he needed to get rid of it. I know it is more likely that the phone had been gotten rid of earlier that night.

    It concerns me that GBC rang the police so soon after Allison’s supposed gone missing i.e. within I think 1/2 an hour of her not being back from her (supposed) walk.

    Another point is that as Allison had her hair done the hairdresser may have sprayed her hair with hairspray which may have caused plant matter etc to adhere to her hair.

    Like

  33. Bob Carr has a very poignant message on the elimination of violence on women in time for the UN International Women’s Day 2013

    Like

  34. Yoshi!

    How bloody marvellous that you are back.

    You have been sorely missed, and your input is going to be so welcome in coming weeks.

    Perhaps you may even be able to shed some light on the whereabouts of our host Robbo?

    Your knowledge and wisdom, thoughtful analysis, and sheer professionalism combined with compassion are going to enhance this place and assist its loyal followers enormously.

    Welcome back – your timing is perfect.
    .

    Like

  35. Doha, On March 2 you said: “There was huge interest in the Brookfield roundabout but does not appear any BC cars were identified going around it. This makes the use of BC cars more circumstantial.” I asked: How do you know this?
    Also on March 2 you said: “There was no forensic evidence eg mud, plant material etc. that placed the Captiva at Kholo bridge that night.” I asked: How do you know this?
    I have seen you answer numerous general questions, not even asked to you specifically since then but not these. Can you answer them please?

    MM in response to your info re Allison’s jumper on 3/3, I agree The position of the jumper does seem significant….perhaps used in the killing, and/or used to restrain her so she could not fight back, maybe so she could not see where she was being taken or what was going to happen to her, and/or due to her being dragged by the feet….all very unpleasant thoughts…..
    The fact that there was no attempt to fix this before dumping her body, makes one wonder if she was perhaps still alive (even barely) at the time of dumping, or whether this was purely due to having to discard her in a hurry to avoid being seen and not having time or could not be bothered to re-position her clothing properly. There will be a reason…

    Like

  36. THIS:
    “At 6.20am on the day he reported her missing, police allege Mr Baden-Clay sent a text message to Mrs Baden-Clay saying: “Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G”

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/taking-the-fifth-the-case-against-alleged-wifekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2MkbDKYMJ

    AND THEN THIS:
    “Mrs Baden-Clay’s three daughters were on a sleepover the night their mother reportedly went for a walk and didn’t return to the family’s Brookfield home in Brisbane’s west.
    The following morning, on April 20, her husband Gerard rang the Dickies and told them their daughter was missing.”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/allison-baden-clays-parents-say-they-are-staying-strong-for-their-granddaughters/story-fnat7jnn-1226356283235

    Did the BC children sleep at home that night or at Skull Lodge? Has it been confirmed anywhere?

    Like

  37. RB, I think in the beginning this info about the sleepover surfaced somewhere but I seem to remember it surfaced in the first bail hearing’s documents or via a similarly reliable source that it was not the case, they were home. Maybe someone who knows the source can confirm?

    Like

    • RIP, I think we can confirm they were home via GBC’s texts to Allison?…perhaps the only truthfulness connected to those texts.

      Like

        • Good point there Millie – GBC’s alleged text message to Allison that morning – it still needs to be established that the text was sent by him and not an accessory before/after the fact as part of an attempt to make it appear like Allison went for a walk early that morning and was in/near FTP.

          Like

    • RIP and RB. I need to go back through this site and find Mrs Muddles post. She went in person to the first bail application and reported back here with an incredibly descriptive report. It was so well written, we could have all been there. I am sure she said “The children WERE at home on that night 19th April.”

      Like

      • Thanks QCL, I do recall Mrs. Muddles, and don’t worry about going back through all of the posts. Kind of you to offer though.
        I accept that the children were home THAT night. I had thought that OW brought the girls back very early that morning which seemed odd.

        Like

  38. Thanks Jen and R.I.P. Just didn’t gel, so obviously I’ve missed a bit here and there.
    The “. . .love, G” texts. Maybe it’s me, but I don’t sign off my texts with my initial to those closest to me, as the phone already indicates who it’s from. Those texts just don’t ring true.
    I know, I know, this has been discussed ad nauseum, but those texts grate on me so much. As Elaine from Seinfeld would say, “Fake, fake, fake!”.

    Like

    • Agreed RB, I think “fake, fake , fake!” applies to all sorts of ‘constructed’ alibi’s and excuses…..caterpillar bites, blunt razor cuts, reporting Allison ‘missing’ soon after texting her certain she was not coming back, telling children she’s fallen in a hole and won’t be back, googling of taking the 5th and self-incrimination, story about TV program and EBC wanting to know what taking the 5th was – nonsense!, sleeping soundly while phone gets taken off and put back on charger, supposed interest in marriage counseling, pretending to be an upstanding businessman, trying to ride on a distant relative’s coat tails (whose integrity may not have been impeccable either by some accounts), behaviour in general….the list will be long…..one does not have to be a rocket scientist – I can not think of ONE piece of supporting evidence in known at this time in GBC’s favour…

      Like

      • aaaargh! It’s too much to remember. I’ll bet he’s not a heavy sleeper these days, lol. I’d be sleeping with one eye open, and with my back to the wall ;-)

        Like

    • I’m sure the investigators would have compared those texts to previous ones to see whether they are his normal style. So hypocritical to put “Love G” when he no longer loved her and was planning on leaving her.

      The fact that he didn’t help to organise her funeral and was only listed on Allison’s obituary/funeral notice as “husband” and not loving or devoted husband speaks reams. The Dickies must have felt incredibly saddened watching Allison’s vitality ebb away in a loveless marriage (over the course of at least the last 5 years)

      Like

      • That’s true Jens, of course the investigators would have compared his texting style. I speak before thinking and would incriminate myself all over the place, lol.

        Being the parent of an adult child who is in a troubled marriage must be tough. You’d want to help but not want to be too critical, lest it backfires on you.

        Like

      • I agree, Caro. I just don’t think GBC would have signed off with “love, G”. Sounds like something someone else would do. In my opinion.

        Like

  39. Does anyone know if Allison had her hair coloured or streaked a different colour than what it was before on 19 April? On photographs her hair looked brown to me, but when GBC was asked for a description he said something like blonde/red/brown, as if he could not decide what her hair colour was….made me wonder if she changed the colour that day….Would it not be very interesting if that were the case if lots of the new colour hair was found in that vacuum cleaner that Bwana reportedly tried to remove form GBC’s house the next morning??? Maybe in other ‘inconvenient places too, like on the patio or carport where her body seemingly picked up a lot of plant material. It will be like a calling card, a bit like her fingernail scratches….

    If this is true one also wonders why he felt a need to remove the hosepipe too? If it was used to hose off blood and the person holding it had blood on his hands it could show up forensically? Maybe even a bloody fingerprint can remain….Or could it also have been used to restrain her, even strangle her? If it is true that he tried to remove it the next morning, it must be significant.

    I always thought it was a pity the BC’s had so much time before GBC’s arrest to remove and destroy evidence, sift through Allison’s stuff, decide what to leave to be found and what not, etc.
    I wondered what was in the many parcels BC snr’s collected in their car boot from the GBC house, I think it may have been the afternoon after he got arrested before QPS moved in…..remember seeing them in a press photo….would have been very interesting to know what they were….

    Like

    • RIP, That’s a really interesting question about Allison’s hair colour, I wonder if some of Allison’s hair has been found…

      As for the house – I can recall GBC didn’t go back to the house for a while, so hopefully, there was much evidence gathered in that time.

      http://www.news.com.au/national-news/time-is-running-out-for-missing-brisbane-mum-allison-baden-clay/story-e6frfkvr-1226338462814

      While I was looking for a link to confirm the above I also found something I had forgotten about – the Constable could not find evidence of GBC cutting himself whilst shaving. GBC also said he cut himself shaving as he was in a hurry……hmmm, so aint no time to be disposing of tissues etc.

      http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/court-documents-show-police-focus-on-blunt-razor-cuts-on-gerard-baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

      They may have gotten rid of some stuff RIP, but I’m hoping they haven’t thought of everything…..surely not.

      Like

      • Yes, if GBC had cut himself, like he said he did when ‘shaving’, then there would have to be some evidence of the blood loss e.g. tissues, old razor which would have been left in the bathroom or rubbish bin at the house. Hmmm!

        Like

      • Yes he did stay at skull manor afterwards, but he (they?) did seem to have had a good crack at spring-cleaning in the early morning hours by the sound of it, so obvious evidence will have been mopped up. As you say hopefully there was still plenty less obvious left. Including the vacuum and hose NBC reportedly tried to remove form the premises. He may not have succeeded with these items but unfortunately he probably did with a lot of others

        I suspect bloodied sheets, towels or clothes would have been dumped away from ground zero, maybe in a nearby suburb, so even if it included some of GBC’s blood which it likely did considering the severity of the body and facial scratches (NOT razor cuts or caterpillar trauma!) he received, they would not have been found due to the level of clean-up that had occurred. I seem to remember a local posted about the property smelling very strongly of cleaning products that morning. Hmmmm …..spring-cleaning to the max….what an unusual thing to do when your wife had just ‘mysteriously disappeared’ while you were sleeping soundly ….??? !!!

        Like

        • Very solid queries there RIP. Also taking the children to school is such a responsible and innocent thing to be seen doing, that taking an extra bag of things from the house in the boot with you would not be noticed. OW may have been given a bag by NBC or GBC to dispose of somewhere that morning. She may not have known what was in it necessarily.

          Like

  40. IMO The texts prove one thing. GBC has written evidence that he tried to contact Allison. EVIDENCE being the all important thing. Need something that would stick.
    Not much point phoning her.
    1. She wasn’t going to answer the phone, she couldn’t, then or ever again. He knew that already IMO.
    2. No written evidence of the telephone call….Hmmm ….Or would there be….?
    He was expecting to be seen as a bereaved husband and father.

    Like

        • Also the lady seen walking in the early hours of that morning – covered her face when approached by the headlights of the vehicle. In covering her face, it could not be established that it was. in fact, Allison. IMO at this stage, it is not beyond belief or possibility that a BC family member/friend, intentionally took that walk that morning to create the possibility that Allison was seen going for a walk – which would support GBC’s story. A woman with shoulder length brownish hair, dressed in some of Allison’s leisure wear etc…but she forgot about the jumper Allison was allegedly found in. Another line of inquiry I imagine.

          Like

  41. 4. Gerb has 3 witnesses to his alibi if his kids were home as we expect they were. Why doesn’t Gerb simply say “ask the kids – they will tell you nothing happened in the house that night”…

    Like

    • And if he did cut himself shaving then the girls would likely have heard him saying “oh bother’ or ‘golly gosh, I’ve cut myself’ or whatever.

      Like

      • And with such a HUGE, crooked, unsightly gash, (I mean gashes plural); there would blood, heaps of blood. And evidence of tissues, or paper or cloth used to STOP that huge flow of blood. Blood everywhere in the bathroom, and on his pyjamas or shirt, and the floor. Even in the car, by golly gosh.
        That sort of blood flow would not be easily checked.

        Like

    • Question is were they given something to help them sleep – in addition to them being so tired from the race day that day? Hypothetically, it did not need to be GBC necessarily who assisted with this task. Another line of inquiry I imagine.

      Like

  42. Ask the kids? Hmmm. Often wonder what the kids behaviour was like.
    1. They were being “debriefed” regularly. (Whatever that means)
    2. If they were being treated like “slaves” or insubordinates by their father, they would dare not, repeat NOT, say anything that would result in a mighty stiff reprimand.
    So I would bet London to a brick, they would say that “nothing happened in the house that night.”
    They would most likely have to suffer the consequences if they were to say otherwise.
    Unless the children were drugged that fateful night.
    Phenergan (or Polaramine) plus panadol, for example, is a mighty strong sedative. Especially for children. Wonder if he had any of that in the house. Chemist has to record any giving out of polaramine. Phenergan, I’m not sure about.

    Like

    • One wonders about the sleepover they were supposed to go on the next (Friday) night….if this was not when the event was supposed to take place…..it will make more sense not to have kids as witnesses during the night or in the morning when a lot of circumstances were out of the ordinary…..???

      But a heated argument likely ensued on the Thursday night and with the plan more or less in place he got carried away and executed it a day earlier, then sent the kids to school (unbelievably!) instead in the morning to get them out of the way. Perhaps both he and the grandparents were too busy cleaning, removing evidence, discussing the issue and phoning lawyers, to console kids…..

      Like

      • My thoughts go out to Allisons family and friends, could only try and imagine what they are going through..very,very sad indeed. I wont be around to hear the outcome, will hopefully find an internet cafe on our travels to read the
        outcome of the hearing. MAY JUSTICE BE SERVED !!

        Like

        • Goodness yes justdreaming….incredibly sad. Though nothing changes, to know he/they don’t get away with this is something.

          You’re travelling? :) Safe and most enjoyable journey… xo

          Like

      • Reading comments about the whole family cleaning away any evidence makes me want to scream ‘NOOOOOO’. How could that be? How could they support a murderer and cover up? How could they clean away evidence of a life and death? How could they hold this information in their heads without the need to confess? How could they? Can this theorizing be true? If so, the book should be thrown at the whole damn lot of them. I can not even begin to imagine that any human being, let alone adults, mothers, fathers, sisters etc know that a life has been taken, support and endeavour to clean (beyond comprehension), evidence such as blood, away. Makes me ill.

        Like

  43. Given that it is almost a year since this tragic event, and despite the QP taking a while to Charge GBC, they were onto him from day one, and I do wonder if their delay in taking him into custody was deliberate, in order to give him the opportunity to liaise with friends and family, all of which would have been monitored, in order for the QP to establish who else was implicated.

    I would be very surprised if they have not put the jigsaw puzzle completely together, and expect that the committal hearing will result in an avalanche of further incriminating evidence being tabled.

    This Goose is well and truly cooked.

    As a Master Criminal, Like in Family and Business Life, GBC is a Total Failure.

    I often wonder how the Prison Community View Wife Murderers who Deprive Innocent young children of their Mothers Nurturing Love.

    Like

  44. Pingback: Gerard Baden-Clay Committal Hearing – 11 to 13 March 2013 | Aussie Criminals and Crooks

  45. Seems you have been very busy Yoshi……I have been reading here about the murders of Vicki Arnold and Julie-Anne Leahy, very interesting indeed, I suggest many of my fellow ‘partners against crime’ would agree. Great work Yoshi.

    Like

  46. Thanks Yoshi and MM – still no go it says programming error or website is under maintenance when I try to post so I’m guessing things are happenning in the background

    Like

      • Glad I’m not your boss…lol The link is working fine. Suggest that you close/quit your browser and then start again. Everyone else is ok. Let me know here if it’s still a problem.
        Yoshi is putting up the new lounge soon… You’ll love the tropical feel…

        Like

        • Rebooted the whole machine and still no go – guess I will just have to talk to myself !! Please don’t ask me to close the building and ask the workers to go out and come back in. I have my own very private office (there is only the owner above me and he is rarely in). I can actually post in the lounge but on my end the lounge is sorted in tattslotto order.

          Like

          • Bargar.. Tattslotto version is still it – the chesterfield lounge – testing of ‘the new u-beaut lounge’ in the background continues. Hang five until Yoshi gets it finished. I’ll post here or Yoshi will when it’s all operational.

            News on the new thread is that Miss Marples is back.

            Like

            • Awesome re Miss Marples, I can read the new thread but not post, don’t rush on my account – holiday in Vic on Monday so I won’t be back till Tuesday, it’s great to see all the old timers filing back.

              Like

              • Oh….. duh now I get it… you probably need to resign in Captain… down where the ‘reply nicely here’ box is – click your mouse in the space as if you wanted to type a reply then see below that there is an area, which sometimes drops you off the system. Check that you are logged in. You may need to log in again.

                Like

                • It show captainstruggles in there and I have tried a few times on the new thread and it shows captainstruggles down there as well, for some reason this page and the lounge work ok but the new link when I post gives this message:

                  Most likely causes:
                  •The website is under maintenance.
                  •The website has a programming error.

                  Maybe it’s because I’m a Victorian !!

                  Like

    • the problem is; sick of all your pathetic bullshit a pack of morons reading the blogs is sicking .get a life YOSHI iv forgotten more about the law than u’ll ever know

      Like

      • Whine,
        You’re so obnoxious, repetitive, boring, tedious, and predictable; you have NO comprehension or willingness to follow the prescribed standards of this forum.
        YOU Do exactly what you accuse others (who actually make & have made significant contributions to the forum) others of doing, as such YOU are a hypocrite.
        Go away you weedy little pest and as you exit do learn how to spell: our 3 year old can spell and use grammar far better than you.
        Truly Whine we’d be embarrassed to post the drivel you’ve done.

        Like

  47. Hi Yoshi, when I post test in the committal thread it told me my comment was duplicated yet the original did not appear so it looks as though my comments go through but are rejected prior to display but are still in some buffer.

    Like

    • Are you able to post in the committal thread under a different name/e-mail address? (I know it shouldn’t matter because you can post here and in the Lounge etc, just curious as to why you seem to be the only one not able to post there…). How frustrating!!!

      Like

      • I know and I interchange between all 3 without logging off – I only have the 1 ID – don’t spend any more time on it Yoshi – I’m not back till Tuesday and I’m happy to spectate anyway, I was mainly concerned if some of the others coming back had the same issue but it looks like I’m the only one

        Like

  48. Many thanks Yoshi for the new link and hello to all the old contributors who’ve come back for the commital hearing, and all the newbies as well.
    May Monday be the first step towards justice for Allison and her murderer and his family be shamed for all the world to see.
    Cheers Everyone, Kati

    Like

  49. Hi Yoshi & MM about to head home – thanks to you both for trying to help me out – Of course I had to give it one last try and noticed in the tab up the top “HTTP error 405 Method Not allowed” – did a google on that and there are lots of causes – amongst them:
    Fixing 405 errors – general

    405 errors often arise with the POST method. You may be trying to introduce some kind of input form on the Web site, but not all ISPs allow the POST method necessary to process the form.

    All 405 errors can be traced to configuration of the Web server and security governing access to the content of the Web site, so should easily be explained by your ISP.

    I won’t be back on the net till Tuesday so I can’t test anything you fix between now and then but don’t go out of your way to fix it – only if its a hobby/challenge.

    Like

    • I understood the first and last sentences of your post Captain… The bits in between was pretty well all gobbledygook to me, which makes me think the problem is well above my pay grade and what I’ve been looking in to. But thanks for the heads up – will have a look into it some more. Hope you have a great looooong weekend!

      Like

  50. Hi captainstruggles and yoshi, I could post this morning, but I am not able to post now. what is happening? Tried to login in but it won’t accept my login ID.

    Like

  51. Hi Yoshi and captainstruggles

    I’ve posted twice this evening on the new GBC thread and they haven’t appeared. I did post on it yesterday though. Puzzling…

    Like

  52. Aghhhhh…. Oh dear… This wasn’t supposed to happen!!! I’m not sure what’s happened folks. I haven’t touched the new committal thread at all today so I don’t know what the problem is. Will look into it and see what I can do to fix. Apologies to all…

    Like

  53. I also can post on the new thread.
    The Courier Mail reports this morning that the committal hearing will be in Court 17 of the Brisbane Magistrates Court.
    “Unlike some previous high-profile cases there were no plans to set up a separate media room, a justice department spokesman said.”

    Like

  54. Sorry folks for all the problems with this thread. I really can’t do too much with what I can access on the site, but with the much appreciated and genius help from Mountain Misst, it is hoped that anyone having trouble posting should now be able to access the page here:

    http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2013/03/07/gerard-baden-clay-committal-hearing-11-to-13-march-2013/comment-page-1/

    Apologies again and fingers crossed this works…

    Updated: 2:04pm AEST – 9 March 2013

    Like

      • SFA… Wayne kindly posted his views at 5.48am this morning under MM’s post from 1.40pm something yesterday…

        Yours and Doha’s posts on the latest GBC thread seem to be going to spam… I have restored them and not sure why they are going there. I am still looking into it. Please bear with me… Thanks :-)

        Like

  55. One can’t help but smile, with pity, at the pathetic attempt at sarcasm from an illiterate, light-weight, Nigel-nobody who throws stones from a glass-house whilst trying to fight their way out of a wet paper-bag.
    If each and every individual who has ever read AND posted on this blog is moronic, then sadly the pot forgets he too is in the cupboard with the kettles.

    Like

    • And, I meant to add, the pot would appear to be his own worst enemy, is attention-seeking, a minor irritation to be dismissed and his/her ‘language most shows a man, speak that we may see thee’. Wayne must also remember ‘that he or she who angers you, conquers you’. Sorry but we have won that small battle. They display typical behaviour/language of a bully attempting to manipulate through aggression and control when it is out of their hands. Sad really.

      Like

      • I am lost, perhaps posts are disappearing. I can’t see a post from Wayne anywhere. I will just wait until MM and Yoshi keep working at restoring the site – thanks guys!

        Like

  56. SFA… Wayne kindly posted his views at 5.48am this morning under MM’s post from 1.40pm something yesterday…

    Yours and Doha’s posts on the latest GBC thread seem to be going to spam… I have restored them and not sure why they are going there. I am still looking into it. Please bear with me… Thanks :-)

    I’ve also found captainstruggles posts that went awol yesterday and have restored them… Just need to work out why they are going to spam and not direct to the thread you intend them to be posted in…

    Like

  57. No problems Yoshi, I’m not really concerned that if I don’t have a ‘voice’ here, and am happy just to read the threads. Interesting, though, that what I can see on this thread is your post at 9:59pm last night and then Doha’s post at 6:22am this morning. So some posts are visible to some people but not others? I can’t pretend to understand. Thanks for all your efforts here Yoshi, I know it can’t be easy.

    Like

  58. Ah, I see Wayne’s comment now. Your post, Wayne, does beg the question of why you are reading this blog in the first place if it upsets you so? Perhaps, by your very presence, this makes you part of the ‘pack of morons reading the blogs is sicking’?

    Like

  59. Rip Allison.

    Our lives were so similar…
    Thinking of u tonight.
    Karma will come around
    The Narcissist will NOT win
    The Narcissist never really does.
    Love jo xxxx

    Like

Post your thoughts here, then PRESS POST COMMENT button folks, cheers

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s