Gerard Baden-Clay Committal Hearing Thread Part IV


Kholo Creek Bridge

PLEASE REST IN PEACE ALLISON, WE ARE WITH YOU, WE MISS YOU.

Summary of first 3 days of committal hearing (courtesy of The Courier Mail)

Witnesses testify at committal hearing of Gerard Baden-Clay, charged with murdering wife Allison

Day two: committal hearing of Gerard Baden-Clay over death of wife Allison

Day three: committal hearing of Gerard Baden-Clay over death of wife Allison

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Witness Statements/Reports (courtesy of a fellow kind poster who has very generously allowed them to be available to all)

Phillip Geoffrey Broom – former business partner

Jocelyn Anne Frost – former business partner

Associate Professor David Wells – Head, Clinical Forensic Medicine – Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine

Constable Kieron Ash – first responder

Neil Cameron Robertson – Investigative Computer Analyst - in his element analysing the 100 phones and 50 computers/iPads

Senior Sergeant Narelle Elizabeth Curtis – second responder

Record of Interview – Transcript

000 Call – Transcript

Forensic Procedure Order

Hydrology Report

Autopsy Report

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Previous Committal Hearing Post

Gerard Baden-Clay Committal Hearing – 11 March 2013

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Baden-Clay’s Sister Speaks (courtesy of 7 News)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwVR76UPaDQ]

Update 20/03/13 Newly Released images taken the day Gerard Baden Clay reported his wife missing

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332 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Committal Hearing Thread Part IV

  1. There’s magic in a Mother’s touch, and sunshine in her smile.
    There’s love in everything she does, to make our lives worthwhile.
    We can find both hope and courage, just by looking in her eyes.
    Her laughter is a source of joy, her works are warm and wise.
    There is a kindness and compassion, to be found in her embrace
    And we see the light of heaven, shining from a Mother’s face. – Author Unknown

    Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal.

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    • We as a society need to be aware, informed and prepared to fight the narcissists among us.

      sadly its too late for dear Allison who the narc family destroyed… Rip dear Allison.
      We owe it to her to ensure we identify and stop the evil manipulators who walk among us as thieves in the night.

      I am doing my bit every day to protect my kids from an evil family like the bc’s.. Daily i think of Allison and how thankful iam to have survived..ecsaped the clutches of a narcissistic family.

      Im sorry i couldnt help u Allison… Lets all aim to defend our loved ones against the same fate.
      Please be aware of the narcissists in your life…and do not let them win. For it is all agame to them

      Google it if u dont understand it.

      husbands, co workers and relatives and not
      allow their selfish demented plans

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    • There’s just something about mums. isn’t it QCL……beutiful words xo
      Off topic…but kinda with it….I lost my mum when I had just turned 12. The girls have been blessed to have their mum to remember,… i know this…and with that, they will carry her legacy, I have no doubt….with love.. Will they get through the fact their dad may be responsible? I pray so….

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      • That must have been an awfully excruciating experience Millie and while you aren’t seeking pity, is it still ok to say, my heart feels for you as that 12 year old Millie and the following years.
        It isn’t until something or someone is taken away do I realise their significance fully. Mums are a special species. I am sorry that you had to experience that and you no doubt learned coping skills that make you a strong and proud woman today but the pain of losing your mother, and while I can’t speak from experience, I wonder whether it feels as raw today as it did back then.

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        • Thank you Little Fish…..no definitely not seeking pity….just relating to the girls. It was many years ago now and I have healed well :) My experience was not as traumatic as the girls have encountered; I witnessed my mum successfully suicide (overdose) after several attempts… it is still a traumatic experience..and losing your mum is….however she passes. I did have the strength to hang in there, have two beautiful children of my own and broke the vicious circle of violence and alcohol abuse in my family. I did this, I believe, with the grounding love of my mum…..that’s really the point I was trying to get to through my own experience. Allison’s girls had a great amount of love from their mum……they will gain strength from that……if not now…in time. Eventually I went on to study behaviour, mainly to gain an understanding of mental illness and face my own issues… Totally rewarding :) I wonder if the girls will go on to study Mental Health or Law…..

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      • Hugs, Millie. I too feel for you, as I lost my mum when I was 8. Sadly, after all these years my memories of her are limited, and I know that my younger siblings don’t remember her at all. But . . . .my father had nothing to do with my mother’s death. My heart just weeps for Allison’s girls.

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        • Hugs Reality Bites…..The memories are clouded, but the love she gave never has been. I think it makes us determined to be the best parents ever….don’t you think? :) Perhaps we even spoil them a little more ;)

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  2. It proved to me this weekend Allison’s murder one year later still made MSM prime time news. It’s not only us that is keeping the memory of Allison alive but the media as well. (maybe because of us)
    Question, if the media is keeping with the public interest, will that make a bearing of the judgement in the court knowing that many eyes are watching the outcome and the Judge will be weary of giving a light sentence? Especially so soon after the Jill Meagher killer being released to commit mongrel acts again and again? I sincerely hope so.

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    • hmmm tibby…..in all honesty, I don’t think so. What makes a case a little different these days to the past …..is perhaps the availability of a social media outlet. And in all seriousness, I’m about the community a great deal and I have not encountered much talk of the case at all – the only media attention seems to be from the Baden – Clay camp, with Olivia making public statements. From where I sit and from a larger community around me, I don’t hear it mentioned at all. this is not a media case whatsoever…at all…I would totally debate this …anywhere any time…
      Yes, there may be many eyes watching this….not any more than any other murder case in history,,,,,

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      • Would tend to agree Millie. The Courts represent our Laws in action. The Jury is directed by the Judge and can only make judgements based on evidence heard in the Courtroom – is my understanding. Social media views, lynch mobs, support mobs outside the Court would most likely have little to do with what happens inside the Court room.

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      • I agree Milli, not everyday coverage but to see the MSM attention one year later was encouraging. Here in Sydney it was on the main 6 pm news and there was quite heavy coverage during the committal, so if it continues during the trial MAYBE HOPEFULLY it will show Allison has not been swept under the carpet like the BC’s would have clearly hoped for initially. If the courtroom is packed like it was at the committal, well just hoping justice will be served.

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        • Yeah … hopefully justice will be delivered to those three little girls, Allison’s parents, siblings, friends, colleagues and local community by the Supreme Criminal Court of Queensland.

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      • Huh? Me no speaka da same language as da post I am responding to.

        Firstly, I dona understand what a media case means and how da media might, or why, take more interest in one murder case over another. In my not speakering da same language, I tink I have amissed da point of dat post.

        I feel a bit uncomfortable wit it. There seems an imbalance somewhere just can’t put my finger on it but think it is to do with ‘power’, perception of same, or perceived use/misuse.

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      • Hi millie
        Indromum from WS says Gday as well as BellGirl from WS it was magic to catch up for Allison. I am going to walk that track at least once a week for Allison and to get my lungs back in order.
        I think it should be called Allisons parklands it has no name at the moment and as far as I am concerned it is Called that.
        So nice to meet you millie B x

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        • Hi Bri, thank you so much for what you have done and are still doing for Allison…I really feel for both you and your wife, I know it must be hard for you both..hold your head high and stay strong and enjoy your walk around the track each week…

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  3. The media will cover anything that is newsworthy, good for ratings and/or incite emotions that will create any or all of the aforementioned. This case is big because an innocent woman appears to have been murdered by her own husband and he was the one who was screwing around with other peoples money, lives and wives. That is never ok in anyone’s terms and least of all our justice system. His choices in life has left him wide open to full exposure of every aspect of what appears to be a rather pathetic life scrounging around for whatever he could beg borrow or steal off anyone including his friends and family. We live in a society that expects, no demands, that people who take a position of authority like that are squeaky clean. And if they are not then all bets are off as to how the public react to their choices and what justice is served them by law. I find this case incredibly sad mostly for those little girls.

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  4. Although I live interstate, I speak with people in Queensland almost daily, yet despite the significant media coverage, particularly in QLD, I find that those I speak with in QLD are as oblivious to this case as locals here in SA. So while it does get reasonably high profile coverage, the majority of the population have pretty much forgotten about the matter.

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    • Dan, I live in Bris and when I wore yellow to work on Friday for Allison I did receive many quizzical looks (not normally seen in yellow). In answer to their queries (“What’s with the yellow?”), that it was for Allison Baden-Clay, I received even further quizzical looks! “Did you know her?”. Ah, no, I’m just one of those weirdos who interacts online with unmet friends!
      It’s been a beautiful few days in Brissy, unlike the nasty weather this time last year.

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    • Gosh, I seem to be disagreeing more than agreeing tonight but Dan, I can only say, as I did to another poster, that we must operate in very different circles because I have not come across a single being who is not aware of that dastardly deed carried out against Allison 12 months ago, which resulted in her death. Perhaps you speaketh to those who have selective memories, for whatever purpose, or are perhaps living under a rock.

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    • Dan, those people are not part of an online crime discussion community. For many, now that the alleged murderer is remanded, they’re gettin’ along with their daily lives. BUT they havn’t forgotten IMO. They are leaving it up to the Courts and await the Trial – when they’ll be interested as many want to see justice done in this case. BUT that is out of our hands for the time being.

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  5. I have no doubt that this story will be big when he is tried because the juicy dirty laundry will come out for all the world to see. So many people will shake their heads at just how foolish his actions were in not fessing up immediately. It will be interesting to see if GBC is proven to be the only person involved in this or if he “got by with a little help from his friends.”.

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    • With all due respect, and each to his/her own, and expressions, but I don’t see it as juicy or dirty laundry. I see it as unsettling, unbalanced behaviour which is scary for the broader community and disgusting information that Allison’s family will have to endure hearing. And no doubt they will want to hear it to make some sense of an incomprehensible situation that no person should ever have to be in.

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      • Agreed Little Fish. The alleged behaviour by a ‘spouse’ and their family towards the mother of those three little girls is ‘scary’ for many and goes; it goes against society’s decent values and morals IMHO.

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      • Oh I think it will be totally delicious to see the clan huddling together trying to cover their faces while all their intimate friends and foes discovers how they could dissolve into an insidious mess of lust and greed. With GBC’s weekly, daily, half hourly and totally stupid sexual dalliances in other peoples properties. What a god awful person to have that promoting your home and having access to your bedroom. It will be real incredible if we don’t see some physical dirty laundry in this case. After all he was carting out a load in one of the pictures right after the deed was done. Those tight knit tuck shop ladies will have plenty of juice to share around and I bet they will get full value out of it too.

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  6. I’m sorry Little Fish that I didnt explain my point well. Ill try again because I’m new at this. What I’m getting at is, say with Jill Meagher’s case, can you imagine the public outcry if Jill’s murderer got a lenient sentence? wouldn’t the judge be aware a lenient sentence would be under the public microscope?
    I realise Allison’s murder was different but I’ve found quite a few people are aware and remember Allison’s murder, sadly, some only if their memory is jolted though.
    Anyway, by the time the trial starts OW will be toting her files around in a semi trailer & I wonder if she has Aussie Crims posts photocopied and highlighted in 5 different colours?

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    • Hi tibby2. All good. We just operate in different circles, as I haven’t struck one person who isn’t aware of, and looking towards justice for Allison. Maybe it is my location and environment.

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    • IMO the Police have the legislated authority, mandated under our Democratic Government, to investigate the case for murder. Our Courts have the legislated authority to apply The Law to bring the alleged murderer to account on behalf of society. We are observing Justice take its course: the alleged murderer is remanded; he has been committed to Trial and the public is waiting for a trial date to be set. This crime has offended our ‘collective consciousness’.

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  7. “I understand Millie. It is not hard for anyone to understand unless you have been close to it .
    Gives me the creeps and shivers but its Allison’s place I think it should be Allison’s Park land”

    Above post is from someone called bri1967 at 6.34pm 21 April 2013 on previous thread.
    Of course I don’t know bri1967′s real name, and neither does anybody else here.
    We can surmise that bri1967 is a local, and he might even have heard things on night of 19 April 2012.
    We can surmise that bri1967 (whose real name and address is unknown), might be suffering post traumatic local murder syndrone. Or post traumatic un-natural death. If that’s not in the dictionary, then it should be put there.

    Now this online plonker (QCL) who cares very much about this matter has been thinking about a few things. Not because QCL is a local, but because QCL holds “motherhood” at the heart of what’s important to life. Developing good citizens. “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the nation.”
    Also this QCL understands some of the mechanisms of the Narcissist. Or psychopath. They are NOT to be underestimated. They are expert in making everybody else look like lesser citizens,

    Locals have been very much affected, even traumatized by this event.
    This ..er .. “Event” … Is it to be lessened by the shadows of time, by people forgetting precise details? By witnesses who are less than reliable?

    Off topic but a bloke was recently grilled in Court in regards to his dog howling on the night of Allison’s murder.
    Poor bloke, ( who was, and probably still is, pretty shook up) was forced to say things he had no intention of saying by the clever lawyer for GBC, a certain Mr Davis.

    My question is this; Who is defending who here?
    Was the dog’s owner at fault here? Did he, or his dog cause a murder? WHY was he so grilled?
    Next question: Was Allison’s best friend at fault here? Did she cause ….. ? Why was she, similarly, so grilled?
    Next question: Neighbours who owned dog that carried on in unusual manner same night; Did that dog, Scraps, or said neighbours cause ….? Why were they so grilled?
    Intimidated. IMO. Made to look like fools, or the owners of a psychiatrically challenged dog…?

    My question is this: What has this to do with the murder of a mother, a local lady of impeccable reputation, Allison Baden Clay?

    If I didn’t know better, IMO, I’d say a certain GBC has instructed his lawyer, with GBC tricks. Diversion tactics. Divert attentions away from the BIG MAIN matter at hand, and divert attentions to somebody else. Even ridicule them.

    Well, this on line person is offended. Much offended by such tactics.

    Why was Sasha’s owner apparently on trial here?
    Why are any other witnesses on trial here? Isn’t this trial to do with Allison Baden Clay? And her murder? And her MURDERER?

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    • Solid points there QCL IMO. Exactly. This case has OW as ‘auxillary’ BC ego for the GBC defense case. The murderer doesn’t have to ‘prove’ his case, SO the defense’s best ‘game’ is to unsettle the witnesses and discredit their evidence. Evidence needs to be tested – but how is ‘tested’ interpreted? Witnesses need to stick with what they saw or heard. They saw what they saw; they heard what they heard. The witnesses’s job is to tell the court what they saw, what they heard – and that is all. It is the Prosecution’s job to ‘prove’ the case beyond reasonable doubt, not the witnesses.

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      • After the Committal Hearing, GBC’c Defence Team claimed that they had “Weakened the Prosecutions Case”

        To Quote QCL, “Pfft”.

        In my opinion, they simply showed how bereft of any defense they were, I for one was feeling more comfortable than ever that Justice Will be Served.

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  8. Hi QCL, I’m sure that bri1967 is Brian Mason, the person who organised the walk for Allison this morning, and he gave out his address to us here on an earlier thread. He was Sasha’s owner and he and his wife are witnesses at GBC’s trial as his wife saw the two vehicles on her way to work on early on the morning of 20/4/2012.

    I so agree with your comments about what a mother is, and that is at the heart of the tragedy of Allison’s murder. Three little girls left motherless for reason/s none of us can understand or get our heads around. Selfish and senseless.

    I think sadly the defence’s role will always be to make witnesses look stupid. Certainly the day I was in court I took great offence to Mahoney’s ridiculing of witnesses. Especially Constable Ash, he went over and over suggestions that he didn’t write certain facts in this report or that, how could he have relied on his memory etc etc. It is very frustrating and tedious, but that’s the game they play. I think a lot more of this is to come during the trial. Yes, their aim is to divert attention away from the person on trial, to muddy the waters, make witnesses say things they didn’t mean to say or lead them by questions into a corner.

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    • It is for this reason that I fear the Defense in this case. The Judge and Prosecution will need to be alert to ‘master manipulation’ in this case IMHO. The accused allegedly has a history of ‘manipulation’ over others and this influence may ‘feed’ the needs of the Defense to discredit witnesses. IMO no witness should be belittled, degraded or ostracised in Court for describing what they saw or what they heard. The Defense should question on facts, not be permitted to utilise emotional manipulation IMHO. I am hoping that the DPP and Judicial officials will be alerted to the potential ‘manipulative influence’ which may be exerted in this case and witnesses protected from same.

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  9. On shoelaces.
    A RH person ties own shoelaces such that L overlaps R. A RH person ties another person’s shoelaces such that R overlaps L. Not sure for LH ppl.
    Her sneaker laces need to be checked which way around they were tied. Probable if dressing someone else in sneakers that they would be tied from toe end rather than leg end – so a way to infer whether tied by self or by other.
    Of course doesn’t follow if sneakers worn when murdered, or if oriented to tie from leg end, or if tied by LH person (?) – but may be another clue.
    Just sayin’.

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    • Re the shoelaces….Me thinks that evil forces, capable of hideous cruelty, might actually stop and think about this themselves, and tie them whichever way they want people to believe they were tied. I am not sure that one could rely on this shoelace business to solve a crime. Bit like relying on information left to indicate that the children were waking, that the husband was worried, that Allison was watching the Footie Show, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

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      • Agreed. Evil people are capable of making something ‘look’ like something else, BUT I gotta say, the Police were pretty good that morning on 20th April and thereafter, so we should have confidence that they would have this covered IMO.
        Without a solicitor present, the accused’s verbals were leaking prolifically and the Police ‘got it’. They were astute and thorough. Reasons to have confidence.

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        • I remind myself that the Police deal with crims all the time., They are used to it. They get used to who’s telling the truth and who is not. They develop a ‘sixth’ sense so-to-speak.

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  10. Dear SFA
    No. We don’t know for certain that this person is the same person who either organized the walk or felt the need for same (and believe me, though not local, I would have been there).

    Because the clever lawyer might say that BM might be able to alter the opinions of Court proceedings, or whatever that means….. jeopardize the case.

    My feelings were that the person you mentioned, was, in Court, being interrogated by a lawyer Mr Davis. (A very good lawyer, I am led to believe. A very good lawyer who is instructed by his client exactly what to say, what to ask, and how to behave.)

    Remember all, It appears now, that this this matter now rests not on Justice, but on procedures of Law…
    Eggshells SFA, and everybody else here, possibly stepping on eggshells…….

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    • This case will have wide public attention again when it goes to Trial. We need to trust the Court can deal with the potential of ‘evil manipulation’. What is on trial here, at another level, are social values which make our society a decent, moral place to live, a safe place to rear our young to become decent citizens of the future. The fundamental place of marriage and family unit as part of the basis of our civil society is also on trial IMO.

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      • … and the right to ‘safety’ of each person in a marriage, the right to end that marriage by legal ‘divorce’ when that marriage is beyond repair, the right to rear one’s children in ‘safety’ in the event of separation or divorce.

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  11. I feel very disappointed to think that anyone could think that Bri isn’t Brian Mason…Bri isn’t a fake, he is the real Brian Mason..he is Brian the witness..he is Brian that did such a beautiful thing for Allison and organised a walk to kholo Creek. I have a terrible sinking feeling in my gut that anyone could think this. I don’t believe that by Bri identifying himself as Brian Mason can affect the case at all. Brian has joined a public forum to organize a ‘walk for Allison’..such a beautiful, unselfish gesture. Brian has said no more on this forum as what was made public in court. WOW…I’m gobsmacked…it’s not as though Brian is a sock puppet, using multiple identities to try and boost his own ego, he is a genuine……thank you Brian for what you have done and are still doing for Allison.

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    • I know, justdreaming. I never meant he is a fake. On the contrary. I just think we need to protect his identity somewhat. I apologize if I sounded offensive.
      I would love if Bri could add more here.
      But what we are up against here is cunning, conniving, callous people who appear will stop at nothing in order to get a murderer off the hook.
      And those same people would have no qualms about screwing a witness’s words to their own ends.
      Brian’s idea of naming the park in is a wonderful idea.
      Again, my apologies if the post appears offensive.

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        • I have had the feeling for some time there is nothing to which this family wouldn’t stoop.
          Including silencing witnesses. And people who post on these sites who would dare to speak against the great and famous BC name.
          My offensive post was a warning to beware. We do not know who these BC family can influence. Either people, in high places, eg politicians or those who uphold the Law; or even hit men.

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            • QCL, Thank you for your apology..I also need to apologize as I need to learn to just close my computer and walk away if I see a post that I don’t agree with…rather than putting on my defensive…so I also, do apologize to everyone for being so defensive…..

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              • We all err from time to time and as RB says – it’s all good. We’ve all shared enough here to know when one of us is stumbling. Hearts are all in the right place. The sun is shining.
                When is that kindness day they were talking about on the media? We can have a group hug…

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                • Yes MM hearts are in the right places and we do need to beware the ones who aren’t, but I think we’ve been here long enough to be on to it. Bri is who he says he is…dear heart he is. but I totally get where QCL is coming from, none of us could be sure unless we had gone along. I was concerned initially at who may be there mixing with those who cared….but alll was well. I think it is awesome that we are aware and we care so much…..group hug.

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  12. While waiting for gbc trial I’ve been watching the jodi arias trial. Can’t help but see similarities between ow and jodi arias.

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  13. Gee whiz, I never realized how much “my online family” meant to me!
    Pain passion tears, online hugs, and personal positive stories. A learning experience for sure. (Millie, I KNEW, just knew you were a beautiful special Soul. Thank you RB, MM, JD and Caro for kind words today. Meant a lot.)

    My biggest fears here of late were for the wonderful witness, with heart of gold who organized the Walk for Allison.
    I have been frightened for what bad people might try and do to him.
    It appears that Australian people and those from other countries have different standards of ethics, of law, of politics, of morality, of religion, of Life.

    I was raised in outback Queensland, with a huge interest in life and learning and the world around me. Rightly or wrongly, I was also incredibly naive. Knew next to nothing about outside matters, especially overseas matters.
    I have been trying to acquaint myself of matters of religion and politics and life in general, in a belated effort to educate myself about these matters. Well, since I was about twenty one. I learned about then, that being naive and innocent was neither protective, educated or smart. Nor even helpful to to the next generation. (In other words very narrow minded. Plain dumb in other words.)

    In my quest to learn about people in other countries, and how they tick, I try and do a fair bit of reading. (I have a great “recommended books list.”)

    Some time ago, I came across an author from Rhodesia, Peter Stiff, is well versed in matters in Rhodesia, and Africa. His books reveal an incredible insight into life in that country. Those who have lived there or visit there attest that what he writes is very accurate.

    Here’s what Galago say of him:
    “Peter Stiff, a London-born South African citizen and an old Africa hand, is a best-selling author of both fiction and non fiction. He lived in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) for 28 years, 20 of them as a regular policeman in the elite British South Africa Police, from which he retired as a superintendent in 1972. With the fall of Rhodesia and the rise of Mugabe and his ZANU-PF to
    Political power, unwilling to live under a Marxist regime, he sold his share in a security business which he owned with a partner, and moved to South Africa in 1980, where he has lived ever since. The author of eleven books, he specialises in contemporary warfare and politics in the southern African Sub-continent. He has written extensively on the bush war in the former Rhodesia, on the collapse of Portuguese power in Angola and Moçambique, the ongoing conflict in Angola and the Namibian bush war and much else as well.
    He is an acknowledged expert on Special Forces warfare in Africa and has been widely acclaimed as the foremost writer on counter-insurgency warfare in the region.
    One newspaper reviewer once wrote of him ” . . . He knows the area (Africa) and its people with an intimacy that leaves the ordinary observer trailing
    far behind him . . . ”

    Peter Stiff explains how bad people can behave with apparent impunity.
    Circumventing the Law, and getting away with murder seems all about how it is done. Nothing is about ethics, morality, honesty, or God.
    Doing away with witnesses is part of that package. Am not suggesting the BC Family is all bad, but I am suggesting this family should be well acquainted with circumventing the Law, including, how to get away with murder. And come out looking innocent.
    All in my opinion only of course.

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    • I hear ya QCL. Yeah, our ethics, morality, respect for the Law is a different to that culture where circumventing the Law and getting away with murder is how it is done.This IMO is a scary element of this case which our Courts must grapple with in the interests that Justice be served, the sanctity of life preserved and people are not discarded, their lives exchanged for money and it’s ‘business as ususal’.

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      • In the article quoted by QCL above, Peter Siff did identify those who behaved with impunity (being an exemption from punishment, penalty or harm) in South African culture as ‘bad people’. If you were socialised & raised in such a culture, then most likely you would carry those learned values/attitudes with you.
        IMO QCL may be alluding to the ‘insideous nature’ of ‘corrupt people within the system’ and queries that possibility in this case?
        This IMO is a factor that our Courts need to deal with.
        When it comes to ‘rape’ or ‘murder’ then it the crime should be dealt with under our Australian Laws and punishment awarded as such.
        When people migrate, they migrate to a better life in our civil society. We have one Law to which we are all accountable. While the interpretation & application of the Law may vary, State to State, we cannot allow more primitive, less evolved values from other cultures to remain unchallenged in our civil society IMO.
        We have a voice through our media and other channels. Some countries don’t have that. Let’s speak up against ‘corruption’ where identified. When people come to this country and abuse our ethics, values & morals and attempt to use our Laws for their own ‘corrupt’ gain, then we have a responsibility to speak up for our world.

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        • Indeed I am alluding to the insidious nature of people both within the System and those possibly involved who are educated in the ways of that country. Yes Caro, you have grasped the seemingly odd post. I was rather hoping that Bri would grasp the significance of same.
          I am glad you looked into Peter Stiff, author. The books are hard to find here. Those I read were lent by good friends from that country. It is not like Australia.

          I contacted Peter Stiff, the author one day, (long before any of this happened). I thought his book “The Rain Goddess” remarkable and exceptionally well written. It is classified as Fiction. That classification is for his own (author’s) protection. As the only parts of the story that is fictitious is the names. He indicated that anyone who lived there would recognize the characters. And all is factual.

          The friends who lived there have extraordinary accounts. People whom we might consider International heroes, (thanks to media reports), in reality apparently are far from that. That incidentally has nothing to with the BC’s.

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        • Caro, I know one shouldn’t generalise, BUT a family who moved to Australia from a less than safe country said they didn’t come here to adapt to our way of life, but rather to continue their own albeit in a safer environment. Their comment made me wonder. . if one grew up in an environment of rape, life-threatening situations, robbery, hunger (as they did), what a culture shock it must be to live in an environment where that is not the norm. And does one ever lose the distrust and fear?

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      • I too had some concern for witnesses being publically identified before they have given evidence at Trial. IMO QCL alluded to the ‘insideous’ nature of corruption, South African style, that it is not beyond the realm of possibility in this case.

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        • … IMO there is much to lose for the alleged murderer and potential accessories or accomplices if he is found ‘guilty’ for this murder. The alleged murderer was refused Bail, one of the grounds being potential interference with witnesses wasn’t it? So could there be an attempt to ‘interfere with witnesses’ from associates elsewhere? The safety of witnesses should be considered as their evdence is crucial. Witnesses need to inform the Police immediately if approached by anyone who attempts to influence their evidence.

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    • We love you Queensland Country Lady, well I know I can’t speak for others, but Little Fish has always admired you and your wisdom, empathy and gentle nature that is thread your words and posts.

      I was chatting to my 82 year old aunt, a widower of 40 years who never remarried (1life, 1 love), who is fighting the good fight against cancer, and she said that only 1 person out of a group chatting recently, disagreed with her belief that in general, South Africans don’t value life like ‘we’ do.

      Perhaps her thoughts, as an intelligent and well travelled battler, who raised 4 children on her own are aligned with your post above. Her husband survived being shot down over France during the war – he was badly burned and when found the only clothing left on his body were his boots. Some people fight for life and the lives of others, whereas for some, life is cheap.

      Not sure if this makes sense.

      PS. I am working away at the moment in wide, open spaces…. Couldn’t help but think about those postcards being sent from different locations and would love to send one to AGCC, depicting same. ‘Dear G. Enjoying freedom in these wide and open spaces (hear the Dixie Chicks in the background). Starting to worry that you have not told the truth and forgotten to put your manners back in. Advise you to google: honesty, integrity, failure, truth, conscience, destiny, life, death, responsibility. LF

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      • Hmmm Litle Fish …. interesting your Aunt’s opinion: “South Africans don’t value life like ‘we’ do”.
        IMO many posters may have alluded to this difference in relation to the Bwanna Snr’s, a sense that its’ business as usual’ despite murder.
        That may be their underlying belief,, But how would they fare if this happened to OW? i.e. one of their valued own?

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  14. Wow Little Fish. Just licking my wounds dry after QCL’s questionning of Brian’s integrity, and now have to flinch on behalf of my South African friends.

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    • I flinch too, on behalf of mine GHS…

      Little fish, firstly I do not know what South Africans have to do with GBC, since he and his family are not South African. But since I have been there, know several South African families and they are all top notch with an impeccable value system and integrity, I am lost for words….

      There are bad apples in every crop. We would not have this blog if Australia did not have its fair share. Not sure how many South Africans your aunt knows, whether she’s ever been to their country or why she has formed this opinion, but in their defense I must say this has certainly not been my experience.

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      • I just had a most convivial meal with a South African woman, well acquainted with this case.
        She is a compassionate contributor to this blog, and has indeed gone further than most of us in giving her personal support to the Dickies and the situation thrust upon them.
        She too made the point that the Bwanas have had absolutely no link with South Africa.
        She is made of stern stuff, but clearly hurt and puzzled by these generalised claims about people from her birthplace.
        So thank you RIP Allison.

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        • GHS I do not believe for one minute that anyone here has suggested that ALL people from South Africa are different, dangerous or off.
          The BWANA family were from Rhodesia.
          I would be interested to know your friend’s thoughts on safety in Rhodesia.

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          • Thankyou QCL.

            Indeed our mutual friend shares the birthplace of Rhodesia (but refers to it as Zimbabwe)

            Her reckoning is that one’s physical safety is greater there than in South Africa.

            Unless of course, you happen to be a white farmer. In which case all bets are off.

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          • from QCL’s post above:
            ‘Some time ago, I came across an author from Rhodesia, Peter Stiff, is well versed in matters in Rhodesia, and Africa. His books reveal an incredible insight into life in that country. Those who have lived there or visit there attest that what he writes is very accurate’.

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      • that is a comment from somebody that has never travelled out of the country obviously.till you travell overseas you have a whole new out look.a reality check.i was the same till i went to south east asian countries.we need to clean up our own back yard before we point the finger.allison’s right they don’t come from south africa.africa is made up of many different countries;all different cultures.its like saying all asians are the same; their not. no offence meant LF

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        • Well said Bill. Travel certainly broadens our horizons and makes us more aware of different aspects that cultures other than our own bring to the human race. I would suggest, in the BC’s case, that the way they operate has more to do with their military backgrounds, and a large dose of mental disorder thrown into the mix, than where they come from.

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        • Hi Bill and all. Back in from the wild so I haven’t had the opportunity to keep up with posts, though I do see that my sharing of my very well travelled Aunt’s opinion, aroused a bit of passion and emotion. Very healthy debate and sharing. Thank you again QCL for seeing the comments for what they were.

          As a traverser of many countries, I agree with your sentiments Bill, about international being good for the soul, the brain and how it broadens ones horizons so to speak. Each and every country possesses its own individual culture and social conscience. The world and its inhabitants can be disconcerting or otherwise, depending upon one’s own life, experiences and principles, morals and convictions. Of course we can be travellers with or without conscience.

          It is good to see that the posts are still flowing….as to my mind, it is indicative of the fact that as a society, we are compassionate, we care about justice and seeing it carried out. Yes, it is a shame that there are bad apples in our collective baskets and wouldn’t it be lovely if they could be culled, or bred out of existence. How dare I make such a judgement? Perhaps I shouldn’t, but I am not talking about regular good and bad, I am referring to evil.

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      • I’m sure we all know some decent South African neighbours or friends or acquaintenances. RIP Allison’s phrase “there are bad apples in every crop” – of course there are. Peter Stiff’s opinions identified those insideously corrupt people within the SA political/legal system who behave with impunity as ‘bad people’. He was speaking to the corruption within that system. IMO he was not generalising to all people in SA. When ‘bad apples’ migrate, they find other ‘bad apples’ in their new country most likely – so they can operate the same way.

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        • I agree, Caro and RIP, there are bad apples everywhere. It’s more to do with their view of life, value systems and personal experiences and what they teach their offspring.

          I think part of the mis-communication here is over South Africa and Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. The latter being the country where the BC’s lived, and the former being a country they didn’t live in. From my understanding, QCL has been referring to works written by Peter Stiff regarding Rhodesia, not South Africa.

          Bill is right, it’s a bit like lumping south-east Asia into one country, when of course it is made up of several nations with their differing cultures. I know many people overseas think Australia and New Zealand are one and the same, despite the fact that they are not, and are separated by ocean.

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        • Sorry, I also meant to add that I know some lovely people from many different countries, including Africa (inclusive).

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  15. So many deep posts today. Perhaps this is a testament to how much this case has affected people on a level that none of us really truly understand. As for people from SA acting in a particular way well I certainly don’t think they have the monopoly on that. I am very certain of that because I have dealt with someone who has acted the same as GBC with the exception of murdering his wife. Ironically they know each other, so the saying “it takes one to know one” is a lot more pertinent than ever before to me. While we all have our opinions and guesstimates on things only the courts can dissect it in a manner that will make sense to everyone including the families involved. I am sure the very best of the argument has not even been heard yet. I am also confident that justice will be served in one way or another to whomever perpetrated this heinous crime and left three beautiful little souls affected for the rest of their lives on this earth. In my view THAT is what cuts the deepest.

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  16. We have lived through the grieving process with the loss of Allison and as we have, we each have grieved losses in our own lives.
    Part of what can be happening to us atm, is that we know in our psyche that the official grieving period is 12 months and when the anniversary comes round, we are at a loss. Rather than slip back into the cycle, know that things just get a bit wobbly for a while and each of us will be ready to move forward in our own time, to another level of understanding.
    Clarity of mind will unfold and going back to basics (I don’t mean a rehash) will be fruitful. In the meantime consider new approaches we might take. Explore different avenues and share together new methods of how we might continue ahead until the trial.
    I’m reading up on psychological forensics; QCL is being the social anthropologist. Each of us will bring new skills and as we share, we’ll find a balance. xox (I’m told that means a hug)

    So with Robbo back at the helm today, we can sail ahead…

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  17. ‘What day is it?’. ‘It’s today,’ replied Piglet. ‘My favourite day’, said Pooh.’ ”

    Good morning all, have yourselves a beautiful day, be kind to those you love AND to strangers (it’s catching and will make you feel so good).

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  18. It was such a lovely post, no-one wanted to spoil the sweetness of it! So it sat all day in pride of place! First place every one looks.

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  19. Hi everyone :-) Good to see you all again, still carrying the flame. Haven’t read beyond this page. Saving up all the documents for a good old read. Those I read last month courtesy of Mountainmisst were .. interesting. And in the last few posts above, learned Robbo is back. G’day Robbo !

    While we’re waxing a bit philosophical, might I say that what will be WILL be, insofar as it’s my belief everything has been predetermined. That probably sounds a bit Far East Man, but any of you who’ve experienced accurate precognition will know it to be true. The little girl in Wales (the Aberfan Disaster) who told her mum she’d dreamed of blackness coming down on the school, for example. And later that day a slag heap collapsed, burying the school and the little girl (and others) who’d forseen the event. Abraham Lincoln dreamed of his own death, two weeks in advance, as have countless others. I’ve had a number of accurate precognitive dreams and images — some of them highly improbable and unusual. I told others about them soon afterwards. Thus had witnesses when the events – which took place in my absence – occurred. Several members of my family and very probably your family, have demonstrated precognition many times over, most often spontaneously. Humans have possessed this ability since the dawn of Time. And it confirms that the future is decided in advance, often down to minute and seemingly unimportant details. Science can fight it, people can pooh pooh it, but it’s happening all the time, worldwide, and always has

    That being the case, we should be confident that the trial, the jury’s findings, the sentence and a myriad other details have already been determined — by someone/something, somewhere. What will be will be. Clearly there must be a plan and we’re all just actors playing roles in a script not of our writing. Allison’s death must have been part of that plan, just as GBC’s future is already known, somewhere. The girls’ futures, yours and mine, all laid out in who knows — diagrammatic or picture form — waiting for us to play out our roles. And all the time, we worry and strive in the belief we’re deciding each move

    Even those of us who believe in predetermination (and I still resent the hell out of it) will continue to worry and fret in the belief we’re guiding our own path. But try to keep a bit in reserve as we move toward the trial, so that disappointments — if there are any — won’t bite as deeply

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    • So well said BB. It actually provides a sense of peace understanding that whatever will be will be. Its so easy to be absorbed by the wrongness of the act of murder and particularly in this instance. I did not know any of the parties involved in this act but I feel a very strong sense of empathy towards those directly affected and particularly the children and like all of these cases its just nice to hear that justice is served in the end. Whatever that will be and its a lot of fun nutting out the case from a distance, hearing that others have questioned the hows whens and wheres also. Everyone has a valuable opinion and in the end when the gong goes down on GBC and/or whoever else was or wasnt involved in this act, we’ll retire to the lounge for a nip and a nibble knowing we’ve at least used a bit of grey matter nutting things out for ourselves. And that will be rather satisfying.

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      • Witchetad :-)

        Fate certainly dealt those little girls a harsh hand of cards

        I can’t get out of my mind that poor little thing – the middle daughter I think – as she stood as the hearse began to slowly drive away. Her entire body folded in on itself. Her little hands and arms seemed to say, ‘ I’m empty ‘ as she watched her mother, her centre, depart for the final time. Very moving. Heartbreaking. Only someone made of stone wouldn’t have rushed to hold her and infuse her with human warmth

        Her father seemed to have tears on his face. But for whom ? More importantly, how will those children ever recover. Not a normal way to lose a mother, which is deeply painful in itself. But all the publicity, everyone knowing. And no father to make them feel safe. Worse, a father imprisoned on suspicion of killing one’s mother. Poor little kids and poor grandparents and extended family, trying to deal with their own grief (which includes rage) at the same time as trying to bring those children back to life

        Less said about the other side of the family the better, I think

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        • iv really tried to refrain myself from some of the no-all comments that has been posted here.unless you have lost your mother at a young age shut your mouth. you have no idea.my mum died when i was 12 yrs old.iv been their.you people make me so angry.no all no f….k all.not murder; cancer.u people make me so angry thinking u no it all.u know nothing.me and my brother ended up in a boys home as wards of the state with convicted kids.i escaped and was treated as a criminal.the kids will have issues as they grow older i just hope they can deal with it. better than i did.only time will tell. unless you have been there shut your god damn mouth
          ..

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          • OK Billywayne we get you and I for one am deeply sorry for your loss but I cant understand why you are so angry when you have absolutely no idea what another person here has been through in their life. We have all been touched by cancer, death, heartache, loss, grief but thankfully not murder (for me anyway). I dont understand where a person goes when they murder, I just dont get it. And yes i do grieve for the little girls as they are a symbol of all children in the same circumstances and perhaps that even includes you. The fact that people postulate and regurgitate and agitate means they actually care. Just in case you needed a reminder. Settle down ok.

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            • Okay well it’s never good when people pass away when you are young!Sorry to hear about that and the reason I haven’t posted for many days is because I am ashamed about a very recent sexual assault that has happened to me and I knew this man for 30 years and he has been staying at my home for several months – just thinking now that sometimes you think you know someone but do not! Masqueraded as a family friend ….Sooooo sad!

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              • Well said Witchetad, we never really know what has happened in other peoples lives. I’m really sorry to hear what happened to you Wayne, and how painful it must have been.

                Oh lilli, how awful for you to be deceived by someone you have taken into your home! You must feel very disillusioned to say the least. I really hope you are okay and are getting the support you need. Big hugs to you.

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              • A gazillion hugs to you, lilli. The wrong person is feeling ashamed, I think. And you’re right. . .we can never really, really know a person. We don’t know what’s in their heart, sadly. All the best to you xox

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              • Extra huge hugs to you lilli, please please get the right suppoand or you, and then get justice so the mongrel can’t do it again!
                BIG LOVE HUGS xox

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              • Lilli, my heart goes out to you, you’re such a sweetie. I sure hope you are ok. sending you lots of hugs. ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

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          • Yeah life’s is b , my mate went though very similar & now getting big bucks compensation because he was orphaned, his carers prostituted him at an early age, he’s living with cancer, loss of loved ones can be hard but some get on with it. He’s a long time friend, a very special person to us & is dearly loved by all.

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          • I hope you feel a little better for having shared with us billy/wayne/bill. I am very sorry to hear that these things happened to you, that your childhood was not safe and carefree. No wonder you want to vent. That black ball of anger is clearly eating you up, and with good reason. This life is very, very unfair for many of us. And some of us do know a thing or two! Some of us have actually been there, done it and are still here, putting one foot in front of the other, remembering to breathe and eat. For some of us, that’s all we can do. If I see you in the street billy, I’ll be the one greeting you with a cheery “Good morning!”. How will you respond? It’s your choice.

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            • sorry i was a bit down when i wrote that i dont know why it still eats me up sometimes.it was a very long time ago i thought i’d put it behind me.i think this case bought it all back.by the sounds of it his family are control freaks so i hope they get no quallity time with the kids. ps im not wayne ok

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              • that’s ok Bill, you’re allowed to get down at times, and honestly my heart goes out to you. I’m so pleased you returned to this site and I for one would like to be your internet friend. Yes, that family sure come across as total control freaks. cheers Bill

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            • Love a full moon! Is it in the Seventh House, MMisst? And has Jupiter aligned with Mars? Sorry, perhaps there’s a bad moon rising after all ;-)

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          • Sorry that you and your brother ended up in a boys home with convicted kids!!!
            How friggin unfair is that??? Of course any healthy person would want to escape. That shows a good sign Billyxr6II IMO. But treated like a criminals, yeah…sounds like the bad old days of stinkin’ institutional thinkin’ to me. Genuinely sorry Billy.
            Bring your good self forward man,. forget those bastards.That was a bad hand dealt, but you have survived somehow. Too many undeserved knocks, too many undeserved blows – but you survived man.Yeah, the kids will have issues as they grow older. I take ya point there. Maybe they’ll deal with it, then maybe they won’t.

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            • they wont deal with it no matter which way it goes.when my mother died in 1962 we weren’t allowed to go to the funeral too young what a load of crap.anyway we went years thinking it was all lies that she was dead.till 1 day i went to the cemetary when i was older to see the grave.i knew the plot because our eldest brother was buried there.he was killed when i was only 10mths old.these poor kids have a rough trot in front of them.even if they say they are ok their not; its what eats up inside you which you never recover from.this is the first time iv discussed this with anybody.i come from the school of hard knocks where u didn’t show ur emotions.these kids are in for a rough road and there’s not a damned thing anybody can do about it it has to take its course.yea life f’…n sucks for some.if there is a god he’s one evil basterd.

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              • Sounds like all that was a big shock for ya Billy. So sad for you, but also a scary & confusin time for ya Billyxr6II. You must have missed her and cried so much. It’s been a bit confusin for ya because you were prevented from goin to her funeral! No wonder your bro & you thought it was all lies for years. In those bad old days people were sorta ignorant of children’s feelings and thoughts. Sorry this happened to you man. You survived Billy. Hopefully, we’re gettin better at understanding kids and how to support them. But I take ya point. Theyr’e gonna have a rough road ahead because loosin ya mum is a pretty major thing to happen in your young life.Thanks for helpin us to realise just how major that is Billy.Best wishes to you. Keep learnin man, along with the rest of us.

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          • Billyx
            I am sorry for the grief you carry.
            There is currently a Royal Commission into abuse suffered by Wards of the State, and I know from personal experience that boys’ homes are probably top of the list for this enquiry.
            There is a lawyer acting for men like yourself. I don’t know him, but provide this information for you in case you would like to share your story:
            Jason Parkinson
            Porters Lawyers
            1800445544
            I wish you well.

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          • Hi Billy, thank you so much for sharing your sad life with us, my heart goes out to both you and your brother. Cancer is such a terrible death and I really feel for you, so pleased you have shared with us and hope you join us again on here. ((HUGS)) to you and your brother.

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        • Burleigh Beach and Witchetad….great posts !!! the middle child stood out to me also BB, the photo of her lowering herself to the ground, the photo with her arms folded and the photo looking up at GBC with such pain on her face…yes very moving and heartbreaking for all three little girls and Allison’s family.

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        • I have just looked at that photo again and my heart aches for those children but particlarly that little girl. What did she see? What did she hear? What did she overhear? She looks up at her dad searching for some truth but it never came, instead he was taken away as well. What a shocking turn of events and what for?

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  20. It just occurred to me today that people like GBC his “mates” and all men like him are too weak, pathetic, immature, inadequate, selfish, disloyal, dishonest and all of those words to be included in any celebration today. Our diggers were and are amazing MEN!

    None of GBC’s ilk can be called or even deserve to be called MEN and certainly not men of valour, courage, trust and respect.

    Today is about honouring and respecting real men.

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    • Good post Witchetad, GBC would be hiding behind a wife’s skirt while the diggers are out risking their lives for the likes of him. Cowardly type of human refuse. Just not worth feeding.

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  21. Thank you for your suppport! And Full moon indeed! Just feeling completely shattered but will get over it. He was my mother’s partner for years so I trusted him. Ugghhh! Cops and CIB detectives were brilliant if that makes any difference …..

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    • Big big hug Lilli.
      It must be so hard for good men to have to face the beastly behaviour of their fellow males of the species. I wonder how they cope.

      Accept all the psychological support that is available to you, hon. xox

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      • Isnt it terrible that people have to congregate anonymously on chat forums such at this to discuss someone else’s terrible fate hoping for truth and justice. Also knowing that in doing so they are also processing their own sadness and hurt. What sort of a society are we when we have to wait so long for justice? And what sort of society do we live in when so many men can get away with screwing around with other peoples lives for lust and financial greed.

        What are the BC clan up to anyway?

        Are they allowed to visit GBC nowadays? Any of them?

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        • IMO social media is a constructive development. It allows people to discuss cases like this ‘which offend our collective consciousness’ – whereas in the past, there was no such mechanism, other than than local … etc.f you weren’t part of the local …, then you had no avenue to discuss, share and learn others thoughts, opinions etc. Social media is a good evolution IMO.It seems that many people Australia wide and beyond identify with Allison’s plight and deplore her untimely end, her permanent removal from her three little girls at the hand of her murderer….further, it ain’t olnly men that get away with screwing around with other people’s lives for lust and financial greed… it’s women as well. BUT regardless of ‘gender’ they are most likely narcissists with little regard for the lives of others IMO. For example, what was Jezebel doin’ screwing around with a married man with three dependant children in the first place???

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            • I think you are typing fine Caro :) Social media has it’s pros and cons just like any social and or media outlet, I feel. There seems to be something about this one though and other’s if we view it so….perhaps a learning of some kind?…….I dunno.
              The one thing that I have learnt from this crime……. is the awareness of strength and dignity of Allison’s Parents and family. How dignified is this beautiful family! As we have seen along the road…some of us have had challenging experiences…….and, though I have learnt inner strength from my own personal experiences, I see, and admire the dignity and strength of Allison’s family. I believe we are witnessing an almighty love…..hurt as they may be, they are sharing Allison’s legacy of love to those girls. No begging, no dramas, no pity…….picking up the pieces, taking each day as it comes………endeavouring to move forward……to give the girls the best life they can now.
              I feel there is a message in that for all of us………yes, bad things happen to good people……..and how are we going to live with it?

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              • Very good points there millie. I agree with you about the Dickie family and the statement ‘I believe we are witnessing an almighty love’, so true. And yes, how do we move on and live with the bad things that happen to us and those around us, that’s what defines us at the end of the day, isn’t it? How wonderful for Allison’s girls to still receive her love through her parents. Allison’s legacy indeed.

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          • Caro I agree, social media and fora like these have brought the village back into the ‘global village’. Technology allowing the voices of the people to be heard has now caught up. Just like back in the days of the village, where the jury of peers potentially came from the village of the accused, with all the risk of knowledge and pre-determined opinions that entailed, the new ‘global village’ of information must select it’s juries from a now potentially equally informed pool of peers. The more we change, the more we stay the same…it’s just that the village is bigger. Also these people will now find it more difficult to hide and repeat their violence on unsuspecting victims. Imagine GBC is convicted, sentenced to 25 years, paroled after 16, and re-establishes himself in some ‘hidden’ corner of the world, only to find himself some new, un-suspecting victim…

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        • im not anon u say men i could if i wanted name u plenty of woman who have done the same.there has been heaps dont just hang it on men .in all fairness

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          • Well you are very right of course. It just seems like its a mens issue on this blog sadly. Women are just as able and willing but probably dont have as much power unless of course you are a Jezebel like TMcH.

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              • Um …? Bill or Billxr6II you’ve had a rough ride, but… we don’t abuse others – Get it? If you don’t like a post, then move on & say nothin.

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              • Hi Bill

                When Witchetad referred to “unless of course you are a Jezebel like TMcH” I believe she was not referring yourself as a Jezebel, just speaking generally about anyone how may have behaved as she has, but I can see how easy such could be misinterpreted as yourself being likened to Jezebel”.

                I have followed this blog from the outset, and can assure you the posters are genuinely interested in the delivery of Justice For Allison Baden Clay and her Daughters.

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                • Well jumping back on here for minute to catch up and yes you are right, no malice meant towards Bill that is for sure. I agree with what has been said women are just as willing and able to conduct themselves in a terrible manner as men. What I meant was that on this blog we are discussing GBC (he is male as far as I can determine) who appears to be the perpetrator of this crime.

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            • jezebel tmch dont really know what its supposed to mean but i took it as something deogritry [scuse the spelling] if u have something to say say it in plain english.what about that evil b…. who killed that women in melbourne put her body in the boot of a car to die a horrible death.KORP case if it remember’s rightly..judy moran another one.ANIMALS.should i go on .all the low lifes who have poisoned there spouses for monetry gain.thousands through history.know ur facts before u shoot ur mouth off. dont like it BAD LUCK. its fact.a women murders her partner and they scream domestic violence as a defence all too often.im not making excuses for this mutt but dont brand all males as ass holes caus i know of plenty of B…. who r evil scum also.

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              • Yeah … examples of plenty of low lifes there – both male and female. BUT there’s more decent people, both male and female and we need to support each other IMO.

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              • errr…. Bill…. hi :) I think you’ll find this forum isn’t about man-bashing. Take some time to follow posters contributions & it will help you gain a clearer picture of how to interpret their words. We’re all on the same team. No one’s looking to tango :)

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                • Hi Bill, Jezebel TMcH refers to Toni McHugh, Gerard’s mistress. Many here feel she had a huge role to play in the events leading up to Allison’s death. There have been (and I hope still are) many, many great men here on this forum balancing the discussion between all of us.

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                • I think the “jezebel” reference started a few chapters back on this blog and I’m not sure by who. To me the term Jezebel is often used to describe a person who is not a particularly nice person. I started using it in reference to TMcH because I felt it seemed to explained her situation but I will refer to her as TMcH from now on to save any confusion. Maybe read this reference to get a better understanding of this term:

                  http://www.propheciesofrevelation.org/jezebel8.php

                  And Bill/Wayne this definitely was not directed at you!

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        • It would be easy to think that only males are capable of dastardly and evil deeds. Sadly that ain’t the case.

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  22. I am very interested to know why there is a delay in announcing a trial date. Does anyone have any information regarding what the delay is?

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  23. The cogs and wheels of justice in Queensland grind slowly. Who knows in reality, but I don’t think it’s a delay as such. Judges being available, Court space and staffing issues looked at, barristers being available. I have heard it could be up to three months before the trial date is announced.

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  24. Bill, We are all learning here. Because all of life is a learning thing.
    But…. Nothing good comes from mud slinging, or trying to hurt others. Either by name calling to trying to be a smart aleck.
    Think about this, when someone puts you down, how does that make you feel?
    Not to the best huh?
    It can happen however, that as you can go through this life, you can have the ability to touch another person like a ray of sunshine.
    And when that happens, it can make the other person AND yourself feel and act wonderful.
    But wait, there’s more, that happiness can be contagious.
    Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone.
    Bill, if you look, you will see some truly wonderful people right here.
    A little thought…..
    “I shall pass through this world but once. Any good therefore that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.”

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    • i jumped the gun a bit on that 1.took it out of prospective so to speak.iv got no degrees like some here i was taken out of school at 13 to work for nothing on a potatoe farm.i educated myself at the school of hard knocks;but thems the breaks.far from stupid.curious about those other 7 kids how they made out in life.i’d be very surprised if they all over came it.because turana was the breeding ground.for pentridge prison.it all started from there.the victorian goverments have a lot to answer for they created the monster..are you aware a ward of the state was classed as a criminal conviction.so was vagrancy. yea.lock em up for being down and out thru no fault of their own was the policy.

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      • That’s so right Bill! my mum & her sisters became wards of the state and sent to a ‘home for uncontrolable kids’ and they were treated like animals! Used, abused and then spat out of the system at 18 . All of us cousins have supported each other and have been so angry that there was no compensation to the rightful owners but somehow they didn’t want it.
        I just want to say you sound like a bloody nice bloke Bill and I bet you’ve got some interesting stories to tell. I’d prefer to talk someone like you than with someone who hasn’t experienced some hard knocks. Hard knocks are the spine of our country.

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        • look up [courts administration authority sa] then go sentencing remarks [Mathew pearce] his family was murdered yrs ago.if u want to look up the case go pearce family murder parafield gdns. this was a shocking crime still unsolved and a mystery.he luckly survived but very damaged.goods

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      • My understanding is, back then, it was not unusual to be taken out of school at 13 or 14 years to work. They were viewed as able to work to supplement the family income. There was no Welfare then for families, so the eldest children usually left early to help the family survive. Some had to get a permit to work at 14 years or so – if their mother was Widowed or father was ill for example. Times were tough for families and people took work where they could, so their families could survive. I have learned that this happened all over the world – not just Australia. Many migrants from Europe had parents with little primary school education, yet have gone on to ‘thrive’ here in Australia, overcome their disadvantaged past and made a better life for their children.
        My understanding is that in the post-war years in Australia, from 1945 onwards, it was common for people to leave school around 15 or 16 years or so to go to work. Work was plentiful then. Many of these people had ‘natural intelligence’ which they combined with a strong ‘work ethic’ and made a success of their lives.
        IMO you don’t need a ‘degree’ to have an opinion, be open to learn and want to make a better life. Although havin a degree might help, it is more important to have an original opinion of your own IMO to help others learn from your experience. The old institutional policies where shocking. Thank God we’ve moved on to better times. Let’s contribute to make it a better world.

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      • Bill I feel sad for you and some of the experiences you have journeyed through. I certainly am not handing out advice, but have heard that counselling is helpful in such situations. It can’t take away what has happened but sometimes helps in trying to make the reality of life more bearable. Just a suggestion and of course I am aware that it is a personal choice, and one that you may have already taken.

        Someone commented that it is sad that life dictates that people come to a site like this to deal with their own wounds and personal injuries inflicted through living life. One would hope that it is just one avenue and that people who really need support and counselling are aware of services available and access them. I believe it is just moving with the times. Personally, I believe the art of verbal conversation is dying so perhaps blogs like this one, provide an alternative. It would indeed be very sad to think that there are people who don’t have some scaffolding other than available in cyber space.

        Wonder who Gerard is feeling these days. Guilty or not, no doubt he must himself be living a nightmare, wracked with either guilt for having committed murder, or anger at his incarceration if he is innocent. Time will tell as to which camp he is officially/legally drafted, unless of course the culprit finds the courage to confess and face the consequences of their actions.

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  25. A Story The North Wind and The Sun

    The North Wind boasted of great strength. The Sun argued that there was great power in gentleness.

    “We shall have a contest,” said the Sun.

    Far below, a man travelled a winding road. He was wearing a warm winter coat.

    “As a test of strength,” said the Sun, “Let us see which of us can take the coat off of that man.”

    “It will be quite simple for me to force him to remove his coat,” bragged the Wind.

    The Wind blew so hard, the birds clung to the trees. The world was filled with dust and leaves. But the harder the wind blew down the road, the tighter the shivering man clung to his coat.

    Then, the Sun came out from behind a cloud. Sun warmed the air and the frosty ground. The man on the road unbuttoned his coat.

    The sun grew slowly brighter and brighter.

    Soon the man felt so hot, he took off his coat and sat down in a shady spot.

    “How did you do that?” said the Wind.

    “It was easy,” said the Sun, “I lit the day. Through gentleness I got my way.”

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    • Thank you for contributing the North Wind and Sun story. Wouldn’t it be lovely to think such philosophies formed the basis of all human nature and associated interactions. Triggered me to think of the story of ‘The Sense of Geese’. Not the same but a reminder about the importance of being a team player and thinking about the good of the whole, and not just individual gain. Scary though to think that the sense of geese can work in the opposite way, for example, a family cover up where there is murder most foul.

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  26. Notes for Bill:

    Ever heard someone called a “Jezebel?” The term isn’t used much anymore, but not so long ago “Jezebel” was a word for a woman who flouted society’s conventions, who wielded stolen power, who ordered people killed — in short, someone utterly wicked. The biblical Queen Jezebel, wife of King Ahab, has become an archetype of a wicked woman.

    Jezebel was a Phoenician princess, later the wife of King Ahab of Israel. She became known for putting on makeup before her death and being a wicked woman.

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  27. Some more Notes for Bill:

    At the beginning of the 9th century, a Phoenician princess named Jezebel was born, the daughter of King Ethball. The Bible does not describe her childhood, but from deductive reasoning, it is assumed that she lived in a fine home and was educated by the best tutors. Her family worshipped many gods, the most important being Baal, a nature god. While Jezebel was growing into a woman, Israel crowned a new king. To create an alliance with Israel, the king arranged for his son Ahab to wed Jezebel. Their marriage cemented a political alliance, but it was a dramatic event for the young woman. After enjoying a life of luxury, she was suddenly taken into a conservative society and made to oversee it.

    Jezebel eventually became Israel’s Queen. She continued to worship the god Baal, and in doing so, earned many enemies. Her citizens’ displeasure came to a critical point when, at their expense, she brought 800 Baal prophets to Israel and ordered the murder of several Yahweh prophets. At this major moment, Elijah, a Christian prophet, appeared. According to the biblical book of Kings, Elijah gave a prophecy: That terrible draught would come upon Israel. Amazingly, famine spread across Jezebel’s land, according to the story.

    Final Years
    The story of Naboth is perhaps the best-known story of Jezebel’s life. Naboth, a common landowner who lived close to the King’s residence, was asked to give his land to King Ahab as a gift. Incredibly, Naboth refused. Incited by Naboth’s refusal, Jezebel falsely charged him with blaspheming “God and the king,” and had him condemned to death by stoning. She then took his plot of land. At this point, Elijah arrived and confronted King Ahab, and then predicted that Ahab and all of his heirs would be killed and that dogs will eat Jezebel, according to the famous story.

    Several years later, Ahab died in a battle against the Syrians, and a man named Jehu was promised the crown if he killed Jezebel’s son, thus taking Jezebel’s power. As the story goes, Jehu made his way Jezebel’s palace to murder her, and she, expecting him, applied make-up and dressed herself in finery.

    Her actions have been interpreted in a variety of ways—some people believe she was simply dressing for a dignified death. Others believe she was “painting” herself in hopes of seducing Jehu and becoming his mistress. In the end, she was thrown out of her bedroom window, trampled by horses and eaten by dogs.

    Jezebel’s name has been used for thousands of years to describe cunning, Ruthless and reprehensible women. Some believe she typifies evil.

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  28. Hello Bill,
    90 years ago my grandfather murdered my grandmother then killed himself. They both left behind 8 little kiddies who saw and heard the whole thing. They were bundled into police cars and taken to Sydney from a little country town and all placed into a children’s home for wayward children. They were wards of the state, ‘farmed’ off into homes for unpaid help and were BRUTALISED. Like return soldiers neither one of them could tell us their whole stories and the truth is now dying with them. The family farm was owned but none of the children saw the money. Anyway my mother kept the pain to herself but became the most loving, protective mum because she would tell me she didn’t have a mum and she wanted to give her children all the love she didn’t receive.
    My point is, my mother decided she didn’t want to be known to be a victim but a true survivor.
    She used her hardships to become a better person and not see the next generation suffer the same.
    My mother broke the links of the chain & stopped the pain, blame & suffering with her and didn’t continue it into our generation. I so respect her grace and attitude to ‘living’.
    Those 8 little children were nearly taken too that night but the older siblings ran and hid them in the bush because there was enough cyanide to kill them all.

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    • Oh Tibby..there are no words..except that your story should cause us all to reflect on the goodness that sometimes arises from tragedy..and put our own perspectives on life in order. This is a very personal story to share, and I hope that it touches Bill in some way as he grapples with the obvious pain he has endured. Thank you Tibby. Your Mother is clearly one amazing woman.

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      • Thank you, my point is, Allisons children have family who dived in boots and all to nurture their blood so they wouldn’t go through anything similar. Bill, yes my mum and her sisters had issues, they didn’t have the nurturing Allisons babies are receiving. When I was young I thought my mother was a pain in the ars* because she was overwhelmingly overprotective but now I’m older OMG I understand why she didn’t want us hurt like she had been.

        Open our minds and live like we are living how we would like our eulogies to read.

        Allison is dead, we are alive, we are blessed.

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    • Tibby, your mother was an amazing woman, to break the chain of pain, blame & suffering – so that it didn’t continue into the next generation. She was a true survivor. May I ask you to expand on the meaning of the last sentance and I am not sure that I have understood it correctly.

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      • Caro the last sentence -’Those 8 little children were nearly taken too that night but the older siblings ran and hid them in the bush because there was enough cyanide to kill them all.’
        After my grandfather murdered his wife he wanted to kill all the children as well, on a secuded property, they ran out into the night with the help of the older children who held their hands over the smaller children’s mouths so they would not be heard. That included an 8 month old baby. Cyanide is a poison, painful and fast, he wanted to kill all the kiddies too but walked off and killed himself.
        Children had no rights back then, my mum was sent to ‘help’ (live) in a rich home at 10 years old, she was made to scub this huge old staircase and because she didn’t clean & dry it properly, she was thrown down the stairs followed by the metal bucket, hurt, she was then told to dry up the water and was then locked under the staircase for days. She remembers sleeping under the staircase on a regular basis. SHE WAS ONLY TEN YEARS OLD. I know there were worse horrors than this but I think you get the drift. The other sisters had similar stories, they were alone.

        Thank God society has progressed ……..or has it?

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          • Nobody to take revenge on Bill the murderer (her father) killed himself. At 18 she was kicked out of the ‘home’ and thankfully met my father at 18, married and had us 4 children. I feel my father understood what she must have went though and provided a safe, happy life for her but she allowed herself to love and be loved. She was lucky to have met a good man. If she wanted revenge or didn’t get on with ‘living’ she would have carried the burden day in and day our like a continuous horror movie. I think that would have detrimented her, her marriage and her children’s futures.
            Now I’m older and try to understand I know she did the right thing for her own peace of mind.
            She used to say ‘let go and let God’ I now know why she believed that.
            In my simple terms I think that means ‘every dog has its day’

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            • Tibby, wise words there:
              “If she wanted revenge or didn’t get on with ‘living’ she would have carried the burden day in and day our like a continuous horror movie”. When we realise that some memory and feelings it brings up are ‘eating us up’ – once we realise this, we can move on & let it go where it belongs in the past. We have life and we have the present to live better for ourselves & others each day IMO.

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        • Thanks for helping my understanding there Tibby. IMO there was ‘enough good’ in the family already for the older kids to act to save the younger children. Sounds like the grandfather suffered mental illness. The government took over care of the kids, which helped them survive, but as you say ‘children had no rights back then’ and ‘stigma’ caused many to feel ‘shame’ for being Wards of the State – although it wasn’t their fault! As you say, there was ‘enough goodness’ in your mother Tibby, plus insight and foresight IMO that she did not become ‘bitter & twisted’. She could take the positive from a bad situation, overcome other people’s limits placed on her, and create her own family raised with love, care &
          protection into the next generation. Sometimes when things seem so bad like that, to “Let go & let God” is a good thing, then do the best you can with what you do have. She had a good man Tibby and four beautiful children. She was a true survivor IMO.

          I feel sorry for the sister who tried to seek Justice and recompense from the Government, but died ‘bitter & twisted’ consumed with hatred. She was a ‘brave’ woman for trying so hard to achieve recompense for the family.The attitude of the Government towards women was contemptuous & there wern’t companies like Shine Lawyers around then who’d take on the big guys to right a situation. I admire her attitude, for despite the odds being stacked against her – she fought to restore what rightfully belonged to the family.

          Hopefully the extended family can get together & continue her fight; support a group action, use a company willing to take on the Government and seek to restore what rightfully belongs to the family for future generations.

          Despite probable mental illness in the grandfather, there was ‘enough goodness’ in that family Tibby. Your mother was a true survivor, who handed over the ‘broken part’ to God and got on with her own life, nurturing love and care in her own children.

          Now back to Allison and her children, IMO they are fortunate to have been scooped up, after this tragedy, into the loving arms of Allison’s parents, their loving grandparents who provide them with ‘safety’ nurturing a sense of belonging with love, care & protection. There is ‘enough goodness’ there too IMO which will help them create a better life – if they choose to.

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    • the goverment probally claimed the farm and kept the money.mongrels but they called that legal.the heirs can take action if that was the case.put a claim on it the goverment will have to componsate.give the bastards their karma

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      • Totally agree with you Bill! One sister wanted revenge and get compensation of the 2,000 acre farm west of Sydney she died before anything was done and it cost her nearly everything she owned in solicitors bills. She was eaten up by hatred of everyone and everything. My mum is now in a nursing home without a care in the world. I see her nearly every night (10 kilometre drive there and back) and we have a late night cuppa together. I asked her how she felt last night and she replied to me ‘I feel loved’ …. Bill, I guess that could have been the best thing I’ve ever heard in all my 56 years.
        It’s my turn now to ‘let go and let God’

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  29. i meant revenge on the people who threw her down the stairs ect. treated her worse than a dog.hatred can chew u up i remember a bloke that was in H division in pentridge once said ‘they trear u like an animal and wonder when u get out why u react like one.there’s a case i’ll send next week when the remarks are published.how the system stuffed up.i hope ur mother is doing ok.funny i used to be embarrassed to tell people i was in a boys home cause of the stigma of it.now i couldn’t give a stuff what people think.its funny back then u just accepted it as thats life .now thats bullshit isn’t it.u are right nobody can understand unless they’ve lived it.i’m over it i hope’on my F.B.for education iv got ‘school of hard knocks university of life’ haha have a good 1 one.

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  30. Bill….Tibby….your life stories are so much a part of who you are and how you were shaped.
    It’s interesting that the most important bits are usually the ones that caused the most shame and so we kept them ‘secret’….and the problems that cause.
    I’ve not long started to tell my true story and people find it fascinating…no shame…I think I’m amazing to have ended up alive and happy.

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    • No doubt you are amazing KKL. It can be cathartic to reveal those parts of our lives that we’ve been keeping secret. Good for you to be alive and happy! Perhaps we should all embrace just that. We are alive, and we can choose to be happy.

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  31. Exactly katikutloose & Bill. Like Allisons children, they will survive and hopefully lead a full life. It’s all up to you to make it as good as you can & what they have gone through they will be able to contribute to others, like you Bill, you have had a rocky road but i guess with the twists and turns if you look back and say WOW WHAT I RIDE! With YOUR strength & knowledge YOU are one who could reach out to others before they get hurt and see the signs. When i was young I would wonder why my mother would go to Sydney to feed the homeless or bring a child from an orphanage to share our Christmases and holidays, I didn’t get it!
    A full life is up to us. Allisons children have great hope, love and a very very bright future. They will have fought long and hard to wear the ‘Crown of Survival’. Only some can justify wearing that crown, I think can they are the lucky ones.

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  32. Tibby, When you visit your Mum next, please can you give hear great big hug from me. Please tell her a Queensland Country Lady from the blog site says she thinks your mother is one beautiful lady. Please tell her that the blogger, QCL suspects that she (your Mother) has a lot of admirers from the same Blog site. She has a big fan club. Her light shines like a beacon.
    And if we could, we would restore all that was hers.
    Wow!
    …..She decided to “Let go and let God.”
    To quote Caro “Your mother was a true survivor, who handed over the ‘broken part to God and got on with her own life, nurturing love and care in her own children.”
    Wow! We could all take a leaf from her book.
    Thank you Tibby. Your own posts here shine with compassion, empathy and love for your fellow human beings.

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    • Thank you QCL I’ll do than but I’ll omit the words ‘blog’, ‘blogger’ & blog site’ because I think my frail little 85 year old mum might find super strength and hit me for swearing or think I’d become a member of the KKK or worse! LOL
      I thought my story could help some. ;)

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    • We have all had a different lives and it certainly puts things in perspective to hear stories like we have on this blog. I agree with you Bill, in time and with good support I’m sure they will see what they need to do. Even if they maintain contact with the BC side, you would think that it would be wise for them to change their surname.

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  33. we MAY be in for a few surprises when the trial comes about.if he did it i doubt that he acted alone.wouldn’t have the nous or balls to act alone.it appears he wasn’t good at anything he did.a bumble bee so to speak.

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    • This has often been commented on on this blog and more specifically by MM. It will be very interesting to see who else was involved if anyone was. The excuses that GBC gave are pathetic and surely he realizes now that he stuffed things up. I just wonder if or how much he was instructed to say and do but when it really counted he just couldn’t remember it all to maintain the coverup I trust the authorities are listening in on and watching the family like hawks because in this case it really looks like it needs to be that way.

      Are the BC family allowed to visit GBC? Are they controlled visits (i.e. recorded)?

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      • I know you’ve asked this before Witchetad, but I don’t know the answer to whether the BC’s are allowed to visit GBC in Arthur Gorrie. Given OW’s conduct in court during the committal, I would hazard a guess that they are allowed. Perhaps not contact visits though. I can’t see a reason why the prison system would deny them, unless any of the family had been charged. I’m sure QPS are playing close attention to the comings and goings of the clan as you suggest.

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    • I also suspect he wasn’t the one who got his hands dirty either. Crimes of passion often present much different to the way Allisons body was found. It was a quick and efficient killing, suited to its purpose. No prizes for who has unclean hands. Literally.

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  34. Bill you do go to extremes. Just calm down and move on. Break the link in the chain and see everyday as a great day.

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  35. I’ll be looking forward to hearing the victims impact statement, if so, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is already written.

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  36. I think Bill/Wayne goes to extremes because he has endured something that many of us haven’t (right Wayne?) so perhaps its best to read what he has to say and move on. I think nobody knows WHY a person says and does what they do because they have never walked a mile in their shoes so its impossible to fully understand. I don’t understand people who cannot take criticism so they start gathering soldiers (people who agree with them because they feel obliged to agree to maintain the friendship) around them to support their opinion instead of standing tall for what they believe themselves. Sometimes being true to oneself means you will disagree with those even closest to you and that takes guts but in the end you will be admired for doing it. Everyone’s truth is different and I guess that is the basis for our judicial system of being innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes that sucks for the people who are left to suffer the consequences of another person actions. Enough said, this blog is about GBC and co. Where were we again? The placement of the cars?

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  37. I’ve been thinking a lot about a phone call that was made 4am from the Century 21 office mobile phone to GBC’s mobile….Mmmm… 4am on the morning Allison was murdered…the call was answered and only lasted 10 seconds. Could it be something sinister or maybe just security as their alarms may have gone off. I know we’ve often been called out through the night by security as there was a small louvre window that was always left open (had security bars and to small for anyone to get in)..one night a gale force wind blew paper work around and it sent the alarms off and another night a bird got in and also sent the alarms off. However the BC family just aren’t normal, so I would have to wonder if it may have been something sinister.

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  38. Good morning to you all. Just dreaming, would you mind elaborating a bit on that 4am phone call.
    I have totally missed that “elephant in the room”
    A phone call made from Century 21 Office at 4.00am 19 April 2012?

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    • hope my next post makes sense..I’m having one of those days today LOL..allowed to have those days at my age :)..it was actually 4.17am…

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  39. Good morning QCL, On the phone records it shows that a call was made from the office mobile phone..(LOL, was early in the morning and half asleep when I wrote that post…it sure couldn’t be security as they wouldn’t have been in the office or have the office mobile, would they!!) However I would have to wonder who made a call that early in the morning from the office mobile phone to GBC’s mobile phone and GBC obviously answered the call and it lasted 10 seconds…any thoughts ???

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  40. QCL, If you’re looking for the phone records or court documents, you will find them on either WS or MM’s Astrology site….there’s another 2 phone calls I noticed made by EBC on 17th April to Emergency services at 2.18am and 2.57am..I wonder if NBC may have been ill….maybe that was why OW was down from Townsville and at her parents place at the time.

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    • And why did GBC dial 112 for his emergency call? That’s for when you have no network coverage. Telstra has the most coverage of all and the call originated in Brookfield….

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    • Again, they used the 112 option. Perhaps the family think they need to dial that from a mobile. Also the first call was 8 minutes long. That’s a long time be connected. Her phone was used at Gold Coast Airport the day before. Possibly one of OW’s kids had croup or something.

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      • good pick up Oz re the phone call from Gold Coast Airport…obviously picking up OW..and good point re one of OW kids may have been sick….I never new 112 phone # existed till I read EBC phone call history and googled 112 a few weeks ago…..LOL

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  41. I notice an almost 9 minute call to Suncorp on the 3rd April from GBC’s phone. Too long for a bank balance call. Insurance? As to the office phone, perhaps someone else in the family uses that. NBC?

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    • Yes Oz, GBC had a great interest in Suncorp and I think we all know why…If NBC had the office mobile phone, I wonder why he would feel the need to make a quick 10second call to GBC at that time of morning…..or did a certain mistress have the office mobile ???

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    • GBC also made a call to Suncorp 16th April lasting 72.42 mins and another call 17th April lasting 29.43 mins…think he may have been getting very concerned about not having the money to renew Allison’s Insurance…he would now need to act quick….

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  42. 10 second call sounds like …. Oops I shouldn’t be using this phone, if I hang up quick it won’t register. Then when all is revealed …… Oh what a bummer, it did and now i have to have a reason for using it.

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  43. Tommy Laskaris who is GBC’s and Allison’s Financial Advisor sent GBC an email 12th April as GBC’s Insurance policy was in arrears..it was due for renewal 6th March and would expire 6th May…GBC told Tommy, he (GBC) would sort it out. Tommy also sent Allison an email 12th April as Allison’s Insurance Policy was also in arrears and had been due 19th March and would expire 19th May, once again GBC told Tommy, he (GBC) would sort it out. Allison emailed Tommy 17th April asking about reducing her insurance……….

    Allison thinking about reducing her Insurance..NOT good for GBC……
    Allison’s Insurance would expire by 19th May….NOT good for GBC……
    No money to pay Allison’s Insurance Policy, his credit card maxed out and by the time he was arrested his credit card was about $5,000 over the limit….NOT good for GBC…..

    What a monster this coward is…he only has love for himself, lust, greed and above all money !!!!

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  44. ” He (GBC) would sort it out.”
    Hmmm Interesting wording…..
    Sometimes (especially since I’ve been following this case) I will get either an email but mostly a phone call about something unpaid on time.
    I have never ever used those words to “sort it out.”
    If it is in arrears, I pay it. I would recognize if I have made a mistake.
    If I don’t agree with the matter, I would say, No, You have made a mistake.
    But I have never said, “I will sort it out!”
    (However if I didn’t have the money to pay, and I knew that it had to be paid or lapse, I suppose I would be trying to work out how and where the money would be coming from. What sort of gymnastics would be required to keep the policy without having the money ….)
    JD, I was picking on the wording used, you have picked those other “not good for GBC” things.

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    • “He would sort it out” stood out to me also QCL..like you say QCL, you (and any other normal person) would try and sort out with the person concerned how you could pay it….. .this guy was their financial advisor, if he was really going to sort it out legit he would have discussed it with Tommy. GBC knew exactly how he was going to sort it out in my opinion…..

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      • I appreciate the concern with the wording but I have heard other people say they would sort it out when it involves shuffling funds to make ends meet. It may have been at this point the thought entered his head though which caused the sorting out.

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        • You could be right there Witchetad, it could have just been an expression used….I agree totally with your last sentence…

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    • And it wouldn’t take 72 and 29 minutes to say he would sort it out. Everything else was turning to shit around him, business going down the tubes fast, yet he spends an extraordinary amount of time trying to keep his insurance policies going. That shows what was uppermost in his mind. I’d have let mine lapse if it meant being able to eat.

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      • But that might not let you eat for very long though if your cards are maxed out and you owe every Tom, Dick & Harry around the country their money. You have no more friends to sponge off, you cant choose between a frequent hump and your wife, you have to continually lie to your colleagues about the business finances to save face, etc. Not a good scenario for letting go of your life insurance policy and certainly not your wife’s as YOU are the beneficiary.

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    • Yeah … a sad find, but a relief because at least she was found; the cause of death could be examined and her parents could give her a proper funeral.

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        • I meant the funeral couldnt happen quick enough. Mummy really was down that hole. He knew it, if he didnt why on Gods good earth would you tell frightened children that their mummy had fallen down a hole and probably wont be coming back THEN send them off to school like business as usual. WHY?

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          • Witchetad, When the children were sent off to school, like business was as usual, I nearly froze in disbelief and shock. And all so that his charade could continue as planned.
            I also said to myself, I bet the same charade will have him going off to “work” as well.

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          • He wouldn’t want the dear little girls around…they may just happen to to say something he wouldn’t want them to say. They hadn’t been debriefed yet.

            ‘out of the mouths of babes’………

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            • I’m wondering if the police noticed the children crying or upset when they were being quickly whisked away that morning, surely they may have had a cry that their mother was trapped down a hole.
              It’s hard to believe that OW relayed that to the police and then said ‘is that ok?’
              DOH!

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              • I think her slip with that was probably the very reason why she felt compelled to back her bro during the initial stages. I feel sure that she wasnt involved or was an innocent bystander. I believe the women may not have known what the men got up to that night but they might have some bad dreams now.

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  45. Beneath the charm of Elliott Coulson lurked a man of violence, says ex-girlfriend Anne Thoroughgood

    Crikey! I was reading of Elliot Coulsen, who murdered Kate Malonyay; and immediately thoughts of GBC sprang to mind.
    He fooled everyone. (Except a beautiful ex girlfriend with his charm etc., but behind closed doors was another face.)
    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/beneath-the-charm-of-elliott-coulson-lurked-a-man-of-violence-says-ex-girlfriend-anne-thoroughgood/story-fndo4bst-1226631862384#ixzz2RtI9vVUq

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  46. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-committed-to-stand-trial-for-murder-of-wife-alison-tells-court-i-am-not-guilty/story-e6freoof-1226602014708
    Gerard Baden-Clay committed to stand trial for murder of wife Alison, Kate Kyriacou, David Murray From: The Courier-Mail March 21, 2013:
    The Brookfield real estate agent has been charged with murdering Allison Baden-Clay and interfering with her dead body.
    The two-week committal ended yesterday when Judge Butler found there was enough evidence to potentially secure a conviction.

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  47. God looked through the Sunflowers searching for the best, that’s when he found Allison and it’s now her time to rest. RIP Allison….

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  48. Justdreaming….you have a lovely way with words and always have something good to say, thankyou.
    Bill…. I’m glad you’re here, especially now that you’re not mean to us anymore.

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    • Kati, you are such a sweetie and thank you so much. I am human though and do err from time to time :)….we’ve been here a long time together now Kati….I often think about a lot of the earlier *bloggers* and wonder where they are and what’s happened to them. Mrs Scott if you are still reading this forum, please let us know if you have found your Daughter… and I miss you.

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  49. I just shed a tear for the dear soul Allison Baden Clay. I did not know her but I feel I know her husband because I have dealt with someone like him with sad consequences. There are people who have learnt certain techniques for cheating in every aspect of life, for personal gain. I believe a lot of this has been brought on by overwhelming saturation of the personal development techniques that were being taught by people who had no experience in psychology, how to use it correctly or its affects on peoples lives if used incorrectly. I wonder what sort of personal development training GBC had, by whom and when. I have seen many lives destroyed because of that crap. You only have to look at the deaths that have occured and the basket cases that have surfaced over the last five years or so as a result of people claiming to be experts using techniques that really are dangerous when used by people who are motivated only by personal gain. MONEY is the root of all evil they say and with what I’ve seen I can only agree. Some of the personal development industry has been driven by greed and one of their main strategies is to BLAME THE VICTIM and one of their most used words is the word NEGATIVE. It is used to suppress people, intimidate people, accuse people and basically drive people to complete and utter distraction. Was Allison too “negative” because she didn’t agree with many things ethically or morally? Was GBC driven to succeed because he felt a complete loser if he didn’t? What was really behind all of this? I’m very curious but I find this case extremely sad. Locking GBC could be an blessing in disguise for everybody including him.

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    • Gerry

      I have found your comment very interesting indeed.

      With regard to professional training and development, are you referring to the teaching of neuro linguistic programming by any chance?

      Because I have witnessed first hand the outcomes of what is basically a Machiavellian method of teaching – and it has resulted in dire consequences for those subjected to its machinations i.e. partners, children, co-workers to name but a few.

      If not this, I would really love you to expand on your views. Clearly, you have been touched by something similar under the umbrella of “personal development.”

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      • I was referring specifically to NLP because personal development is a very loose term indeed. For anyone to operate in the personal development area the do not need any qualifications. This should be addressed because so many lives have been damaged by self titled experts who operate in that industry. Do some research and you’ll discover just how incestuous the industry is. They use scaremongering to cause people to do stupid things like throw caution to the wind, quit your day job and do what you really want to do and the money will just come. That sort of thing. I’ve seen it and i’ve experienced it. I know it goes on and I know the people doing it belittle those who object or question anything. And then as a way to cover things up they attempt to use NLP on people to steer them away from whats really going on.

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            • Interestingly wasn’t NBC a financial advisor, insurance agent AND a marriage councillor?

              QUESTION – I believe some mortgage brokers have a yearly commission for the term of the loan. When we took out pur mortgag the broker disclosed his commissions Does that apply for life insurance etc? Would NBC have made commissions on his dealing or am I so off track here?

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              • Well he didn’t do too well with the counsel he gave GBC did he but then we’ve since learnt that rules didn’t apply to them.

                I also do wonder how honest the loan applicants forms were if these people were mortgage brokers. I see there are huge payments being made to people who had their mortgage docs manipulated to make them appear much more able to pay than they could just so that these deviants could get commissions. This was a complete rort. I’ll see if I can find that info but I would certainly be checking my documents if I had a loan funneled through them.

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        • Hello Gerry, Thank you for coming here. I had to look up NLP, as the first thought that sprang to mind was a political party.
          Having scratched my head a bit over this, I suspect you may be referring to Neuro-Linguistic Programming?

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        • Gerry, My opinion is that GBC had plenty of personal training from his own family..In the earlier days his father NBC had a Linkedin Profile saying he (NBC) was a Financial Planner and a Marriage Enhancement Facilitator (this has since been removed from NBC profile)…..GBC worked as Financial System Consultant with Blockbuster when GBC and Allison lived in London.

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  50. Welcome Gerry, I love the little green Avatar….I firmly believe GBC was driven by the greed of money…and BLAME THE VICTIM, you hit the nail on the head!!!! That’s often why in court you will hear people like GBC say “I am not guilty your Honour”…they know they are as guilty as sin and yet continue to BLAME THE VICTIM for their own evil, wrong doings.

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  51. Well said, Justdreaming and Gerry. Explains very succinctly how and why GBC can say, “Not guilty your Honour.”

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    • Funny how people come and go, change names etc. good to see some of the reliables and steady as she goes posters.

      Driving over that fateful bridge yesterday, I noticed some flowers that had disengaged themselves from the memorial to Allison. It is such a jolly tricky road that unless you are thinking and concentrating and prepared, it is virtually impossible to stop, after thinking you should stop.

      This afternoon while following the same track home, I remembered in advance and decided if the traffic allowed, I would stop my car to re-erect the wayward flowers as after all, someone took the time to place them for Allison. With a space in the traffic which allowed me to safely exit, I alighted from my car and as I walked towards that eery bridge, I felt a bit sick in my gut. I quickly re-placed the flowers without really stopping to pause and feel the sadness of the environment and retraced my steps to the car. I felt like a fraud. That the passing cars’ drivers were judging me, as I was only there to reassemble someone else’s arrangement. I hoped that the universe understood my intentions.

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  52. It becomes more obvious the more you see. I don’t know what training methods or material they use in the real estate industry but you have to question it.

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    • Is it like Julia blaming Tony for the cat having kittens?
      SHIFT THE BLAME- don’t look at me! He made me do it! He looked at me…………..are we there yet?

      I think that’s political training speak
      Religion can be similar these days – its all about money and power -Take a look at some of these tv evanjalists ramming and forceful.

      What happened to the meek inheriting the earth?

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      • …the paedophiles and ‘business men’ using Religion to fleece innocent believers of their hard earned funds have proven to us that ‘the meek get trampled on and abused’ – haven’t they?

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          • Yes religion appears to be the final rort for a lot of con men. I guess they think they can have the last fling if they claim to be faithful christians, another lot of suckers in the church

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  53. I think G’s training started long before Realestate…I believe his family is a family driven by power and the want to feel important…a me family, yes..all about me..just me and couldn’t care about anyone else !!! For G’s father to change their surname to B-C just so they could boast that they were descendants of Lord Baden Powell who founded the Scout movement shows exactly what sort of people they are. However, nobody can blame their parents totally for how they turn out in life…..we all have a conscience and we all know right from wrong…and if a person chooses to do wrong he only has himself to blame and should suffer the consequences. In this case..I hope it’s ‘life in prison’ for the evil CLAY descendant.

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  54. Reason for not wanting to accept the surname Clay – could very well be unconsciously related to the term “Feet of Clay”. When I turned to wiki – apart from the bible quote, I noted:
    “The analogy is now commonly used to refer to a weakness or character flaw, especially in people of high station.” LOL Putting on airs, they fell in the mud…

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  55. Our Westside Story

    In 2003 Gerard Baden-Clay set out to change the way real estate is conducted in the western suburbs.
    With the support of wife Allison and parents Nigel and Elaine, Gerard created a new model of agency office under the banner of the world’s largest real estate brand – Century 21. “We set out to create not a real estate office with a business wrapped around it, but rather a business with real estate wrapped around it,” Gerard explains.
    “In other words, the core of this operation is the business itself, which brings with it all those things that are vital to being an industry-leading business – professional integrity, ongoing training, market expertise, accountability, transparent ethics and profit-sharing. Consequently, we are consistently and extraordinarily successful in achieving the best possible price for our vendors in the shortest possible time.”
    Principles
    Lofty ideals? “Well, yes, I’m an idealistic person,” Gerard admits, “but I’m also realistic. I have seen what a huge difference progressive business practices can make to a company and brand. My background in marketing and finance positions showed me in no uncertain terms what a successful business model can achieve and what it takes to bring out the absolute best in people.
    “Indicatively,” continues Gerard, “I believe we are the only local real estate business that rewards every one of its team when a property is successfully sold. That fosters true teamwork, not just lip service about teamwork, and what you ultimately have is a group of professionals working for every client, not a handful of agents surreptitiously working against each other.”
    Professionals
    Senior Property Consultant Phill Broom joined the team in 2005, quickly earning an excellent reputation among satisfied buyers and sellers. “I’m passionate about being part of the overall ‘raising of the bar’ process in professionalising the real estate industry,” Phill explains. “Each member of this team has a professional background that is ideally applied to real estate.”
    For a young business operating in a well-serviced market, Century 21 Westside has enjoyed rapid growth, with Property Consultants Susan Barnes and Toni McHugh joining the team in early 2007.
    “We’ve selected the best,” says Gerard, who utilised Century 21’s unique Real Estate Simulator program to sort through willing candidates. “Coincidentally, each of the newer members of our team has previously dealt with Century 21 Westside as satisfied clients. This is both humbling and rewarding – proof that we’re doing things right.”
    The sales team is fully supported by a Client Service Team headed by James Billing, who has extensive experience in the development of professional real estate marketing material. In 2007 James’ success was recognised across all industries in the form of the Quest Employee Excellence Award – a coveted honour championing individual success and innovation.
    James is ably assisted by receptionist Lyn McAuley, whose dulcet tones add life and colour at the business coalface.
    Finance manager Nigel Baden-Clay and personal assistant to the principal Elaine Baden-Clay provide extraordinary stability and support with their wealth of business experience and wisdom.
    Progress
    Testament to Gerard’s vision, Century 21 Westside became Brisbane’s leading Century 21 office within just three years of opening its doors on Moggill Road in Kenmore. It has twice been recognised as the western suburbs’ leading real estate agency by the Quest Business Achiever Awards, the most recent gong being awarded in 2007.
    “I’m very proud of what we’ve created here and of each and every successful sales story we’ve helped write,” Gerard says. “Your reputation is everything in this business and we continue to receive wonderful testimonials each week from people who appreciate the professional integrity and personal ethics that define the way we do business here.”
    Century 21 Westside’s next chapter involves continued, controlled expansion, ultimately leading to a network of affiliated offices operating throughout the western suburbs. “We look forward to realising the synergies and cost-efficiencies of measured growth using our successful business model,” Gerard says.
    “People have embraced that we’re doing something different and hugely successful here, and the future is very exciting.”

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    • Would anybody care to try and translate above spiel entitled “Our Westside Story?” Thanks for supplying JD.

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      • At first I thought I needed a translator myself QCL…. one fluent in ‘Talksoutarsish’, but then I remembered seeing a funny office email in circulation. It contained a template for playing ‘Wank Word Bingo’ in work meetings. Wouldn’t take long for someone to scream BINGO if Gerbil was presenting. Here’s what I mean… http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/ww-print.html

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      • I’ll translate this portion of sentence…..
        “I believe we are the only local real estate business that rewards every one of its team………

        He rewarded part of his staff by not paying them what they were owed and we ALL know how he rewarded TMH… and dear Allison.

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        • And I’ll translate another:
          Senior Property Consultant Phill Broom joined the team in 2005. Phillip was carefully selected. Figured he was a “nice” bloke whose assets GBC could soon relieve him of. (Without him noticing.)
          GBC motto: “How to Get Your money in GBC’s Pocket.” And do it legally. An important maxim in GBC’s way of doing business.
          Each member of the team has a professional background. (Each member has Money and or assets before coming to the BC vortex.)
          Westside Century 21 has enjoyed rapid growth. (Each member’s money is getting sucked into the vortex.)

          (Heh heh! Bit like when one political party comes into power. Sells off assets accrued by previous governments, and then sprouts how they have “made lots of money.”)

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  56. Note the ‘Our Westside Story’ blog above states Finance Manager is Nigel Baden-Clay. Must say Dan the Man’s opinion on April 18th says “the Century 21 Westside Money Vortex he was running”. Chuckle.

    Further, “Our Westside Story” states that PA to the principle was Elaine Baden-Clay.Well, usually a PA knows where the boss is at all times and is on top of all the information to be of assistance in his/her absense, etc. SO … just what did EBC know about the affair between GBC and TMcH during that 4 year relationship? Did she assist the principle with the cover up of it?

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    • This we may well ask as EBC also seems to have been all over his personal information and all over his work information in the role of his personal PA.

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      • We know from phone records that GBC seemed to keep NBC in’ the information loop’ on just about everything. Is seems that NBC had a ‘shadow’ relationship with his son where he pretty well knew all his personal information, and in the role of finance manager, pretty well knew all his working information. IMHO.

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        • … SO may we speculate that GBC had never really left home? Both his parents seem over involved in his personal and in his business life, both holding ‘key’ roles within the company. From what we do know, It seems that Allison was sidelined IMHO.

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          • I agree with you Caro, seems GBC couldn’t do anything for himself or by himself…. even to the point where he couldn’t speak for himself, either his Sister spoke for him or his Lawyer……

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  57. Are south efricans (LOL) an arrogant race?
    Has PashPop incorporated still got strong accents?
    Is the average Aussie happy selling their home with ‘South Efricans’?’
    I think I’d swing away and list with Aussies – sorry I don’t know why though- they’d have to really convince me, somehow.

    I didn’t think I was racist.
    Maybe I just hate everyone equally. ;)

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    • In answer to your Question Tibby…tibby2 on May 2, 2013 at 6:18 am….
      Is the average Aussie happy selling their home with ‘South Efricans’?’

      If I felt a South African Real Estate person was genuine and honest…YES I would
      seeming GBC was born in UK…
      If I felt a British Real Estate person was genuine and honest….YES I would
      If I felt a Aussie Real Estate person was genuine and honest….YES I would

      If I felt a South African Real Estate person was sleazy and dishonest…NO I wouldn’t
      If I felt a British Real Estate person was sleazy and dishonest…NO I wouldn’t
      If I felt a Aussie Real Estate person was sleazy and dishonest….NO I wouldn’t

      As one of our very faithful, genuine and kind *bloggers* here said……

      RIP Allison
      on April 25, 2013 at 8:20 pm

      There are bad apples in every crop. We would not have this blog if Australia did not have its fair share.

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      • Very well said justdreaming! One really can not put any nation as a whole into the ‘bad apple’ category – unfortunately all do have them – but thankfully a minority.

        I have been’ off the air’ for a while so had a bit of catch-up reading to do.

        I was most interested in the discussion of a phone call made to GBC from the office phone at 4:17am in the night that Allison died – and that he who claimed to have been sleeping like a baby till 6am answered it at 4:17am! This seems very telling….especially considering he was in such financial strife that even his telephone bill was in arrears, but he went to trouble to ensure Allison’s life insurance was current…..hmmmm …Will be very interesting indeed to find out during the trial who the 4:17am caller was.

        Thanks for reminding us of GBC’s “Westside story” justdreaming …wow….industry-leading business, professional integrity, market expertise, accountability, transparent ethics…principles…lofty ideals…it takes one’s breath away knowing what we do now…

        It is indeed a great pity GBC seemingly chose not to walk his own talk…

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        • For crying out loud, Little Fish, don’t YOU start on this caper too.

          The Baden Clays were not, are not, never have been, and never will be South African.

          But some of your most kind and generous fellow posters on this site ARE, and such comments are bloody naive and hurtful.

          And yes, I just lost my temper.

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  58. Definition of a Wankist; (from my dictionary) A person who opposes, dislikes and is biased against wankers.
    May cause people to suddenly call out “Bingo!” for no apparent reason.

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    • Just the first impressions if Mrs BC with an accent answer the phone & then I put though Mr BC with an equally broad accent I’d start wondering if they really know the area really well enough to sell my home. Just thinking out loud & yes I’m possibly out of line thinking that way.
      BINGO! Oops there it goes again!

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        • Justtdreaming and moonlight…thanks to two good souls.

          Let’s hope we haven’t totally lost at least two others who were similar to you both.

          From the beginning, each has been a voice of reason and compassion through their valuable insight and input.

          To lose them now would be so very wrong, particularly if the catalyst for their absence was a series of ignoble and indeed factually incorrect observations and opinions.

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          • thank you GHS…you’re also a good soul..and yes I hope we haven’t totally lost the others…cheers GHS

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      • Hello tibby2,

        In actuality and all fairness, I was reading in the court documents that NBC would have a competition with one of the real estate agents to name the position of a house, they would refer to the roof colour, so they were passionate with their real estate.

        We are all human beings, it is the good human beings who count, ones with kindness and respect.

        We are Australian, our ancestors arrived with an accent.

        Just as an aside, I’m disappointed at how rude our society is becoming. Driving on the road for a period of time and/or into the industrial areas is an experience of one rude person after another. I would like to ask, “What has happened to our Professional truck drivers?”. So many seem to be rude and impatient, drivers who need re-training. At least the truck drivers in years past, were always decent. Gone, gone, gone. I think that we can generally thank the media for desensitizing non thinking people and making them more self interested.

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  59. Kiesha’s mother was caught going to visit her grave and has admitted to manslaughter and Jill meagher’s murderer has admitted involvement, so unless there is the roundabout footage or A1 witnesses GBC is pushing for ‘proove it’. I don’t think he’ll admit to it, he’s hoping to walk free. Gaol is full of innocent people. TIC
    When the murderer is caught and the family knows how their loved one died there is that closure for them and the public.
    I’m wondering if we will ever have that same closure for Allison.

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