Baden-Clay due to face trial in June for the murder of his wife, Allison


 Allison

Courier Mail

 A SUPREME Court judge has described a counsellor’s attempts to avoid testifying at the murder trial of Gerard Baden-Clay as “bizarre”.

Justice James Douglas was commenting on submissions from the counsellor’s barrister that her sessions with Baden-Clay and his wife, Allison, were confidential.

“I regard the proceedings of the criminal courts of Australia as very significant proceedings,” Justice Douglas told a pre-trial hearing.

“I would have thought it would require very strong words to prevent evidence being called.

“To construe an act like this, to say evidence isn’t admissible when somebody’s on trial for murder, is quite frankly, in my mind, bizarre.

“A person on trial for the most serious crime really should be able to call evidence or have evidence called that is relevant.

“To construe the act this way, to try to say it’s actually in the public interest not to, I find very odd.”

Baden-Clay, who is due to face trial in June for the murder of his wife, sat silently in the dock for yesterday’s hearing. Clean-shaven and dressed in a dark suit, he was flanked by security guards and did not have his usual family support.

He reported his wife missing from their Brookfield home last April and her body was discovered under a bridge 10 days later.

Justice Douglas has been asked to rule on whether evidence from Relationships Australia counsellor Carmel Ritchie was admissible in the trial.

Barrister George Kalimnios, for Relationships Australia, argued the counsellor could legally keep her sessions with the Baden-Clays confidential.

But the prosecution and defence yesterday both told the court they wanted the evidence to be included and argued it was admissible.

Prosecutor Glen Cash, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the court police executed a search warrant on Relationships Australia Queensland on May 11 last year.

Baden-Clay had a session with Ms Ritchie on April 16 last year, just four days before he reported his wife missing from the Brookfield home. His wife had a separate session with Ms Ritchie immediately after his, and had a previous session on March 27.

Mr Cash told the court any public interest in confidentiality was overwhelmed by the need for access to the full evidence for the murder trial.

Concerns about discouraging openness in counselling sessions had to be put behind the interests of allowing the trial, he said.

Concerns about effects on future counselling sessions could be “overstated” as counsellors could only be called to give evidence in a very small number of cases, he said.

Michael Byrne QC, for Baden-Clay, said a murder trial had far greater public interest than confidentially for counselling sessions.

Justice Douglas said he would make his decision known at a future date.

Outside court, Baden-Clay’s solicitor Peter Shields said: “There won’t be any comment at all until the end of the trial.”

Source:  http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gerard-badenclay-appears-in-court-for-pretrial-hearing-to-decide-whether-counsellor-should-testify/story-e6freon6-1226730693253

UPDATE (Thanks to JJE).

Developments on the BC case in court this morning.  Mr Business-As-Usual was in court today, represented by the very capable Mr Shields.  The counsellor has been ordered to appear as a witness.  Although not mentioned in the relevant CM or BT articles, it has been said previously that BC’s legal team were not opposing the counsellor giving evidence…  I wonder if that is the case now… (keep in mind his legal team has changed).  A glance at the ruling and reporting indicates this is still the case. And previously the counsellor – through her barrister – has argued that the sessions were ‘confidential’…  Thankfully this judge has sensibly ruled otherwise

Reveal all, I say…  Reveal all and let everyone see for themselves…

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-counsellor-can-give-evidence-20131219-2zmld.html

72 thoughts on “Baden-Clay due to face trial in June for the murder of his wife, Allison

  1. Great update, thanks JJE – Hope everyone has a happy Christmas! For those of you, on your own, may your day have blessings you never thought possible – you will be thought of :)

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  2. I too find it unthinkable that this counselor can not see that the information she has is useless to everyone if kept confidential whilst it could be very useful to help uncover the truth and justice to be served in Allison’s murder trial. It almost sounds as if she does not want to assist with uncovering the truth, as if wants to hide something – it is truly bizarre. I hope when she does give evidence she is totally honest and does not withhold information. Her behaviour so far does not inspire confidence. What a pity! I do hope she has an attitude adjustment before she gives evidence.

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    • GBC may have used this counselor in the same way he used the doctor/caterpillar. Her evidence may reveal a level of planning if he painted a picture of Allison as capable of suicide knowing that this was the path that was going to be taken later on. Then again he may also have “charmed” her too.

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    • I suspect the legal attempt to avoid the giving of evidence is a business tactic by Relationships Australia to assure past and future clients of their desire to preserve confidentiality and to also be able to state that they were forced by the courts to divulge. Plus, it was an opportunity to have a “grey area” of the law cleared.

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  3. Merry Christmas and a prosperous and Happy New Year to Admin and all you fine good caring people writing for better justice, at Aussie Criminals. Cheers from Steve, Former Prison Officer.
    The best thing which to celebrate 2013, with over Chrismas and the New Year 2014, with a drink, or too, is a big” CHEERS ,”for all the Victims of violent crimes, that have finally seen justice served on our worst SCUM BAG, Prisoners :Steven James Hunter…Sent away for LIFE!.Never to be released!.in H.M. Supermax!…… Adrian Earnest Edwards/Bayley…….
    At least 35 years!..Appeal turned down!., in H.M. Supermax!…. And Simon Gittany, Found Guilty, locked up awaiting sentence! Remanded to H.M.Silverwater Supermax! and Gerald Baden Clay, on trial, Remanded to H.M .AGCC. hopefully found guilty and sentenced to a very long term of imprisonment!………… The Judges are finally getting with the program, listening to the victims, court impact statements and dispensing tough justice., Prison sentences!………….
    Cheers everyone, have a XXXX, whiskey, wine or a drink on me…….

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  4. Merry Christmas everyone, take care of yourselves and your loved ones, and wishing you all the best for 2014. The year GBC goes to trial, and an interesting ride that will be. All the best, SFA.

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  5. Nice to see that someone is keeping the cauldron simmering under gerbil. Porridge for Christmas lunch again… Think we need to start a countdown clock.
    According to my notes:
    3rd and 4th February 2014 – pretrial hearing
    24th February – recording of evidence
    9th June – bums on seats…

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  6. Pre-trial hearing 3-4 Feb 2014.

    From what I’ve interpreted, the pre-trial hearing looks like the time when gerbil’s team would make application for trial by a judge, sitting without a jury – “the excessive media coverage won’t give a fair trial” argument. What odds he’ll go for that one.

    It’s also the time when questions of law including the admissibility of evidence are proposed and also the exchange of medical, psychiatric and other expert reports. This will be when the relationship counsellor will be on the stand.

    It should be an interesting couple of days – thrust and parry between the legal teams. If it’s an open court it would be interesting to observe.

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  7. Without having the time to read everything above, I had this thought when it was announced the counsellor had to testify.
    Could it be that she may have been seduced (read eventually sickened) by this alleged killer in these sessions (as well as professional conflicts, but why fight to not front up?) and all will be revealed if it goes to court?
    I might be way of the mark but I do not count anything out in this case.

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      • Hi Mountain Misst,

        I believe you are correct in that it was Relationships Australia rather than the Counsellor who sought that the content of the ABC and GBC sessions not br allowed as evidence in the Trial.

        I expect that their reasons would be based on their commercial interests in future business not being diminished by persons fearing that their discussions with councillors could be made public rather than any concern about the actual content of the sessions with either ABC or GBC.

        It may well prove pivotal to the case, and could even lead to recomendations that councellors be required to report potential domestic violence to authorities in the interests of preventing such events as this.

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  8. Check out- Australias ( Once, but not any more) Hardest Prisons: The Old Melbourne Gaol:, on youtube.
    Chuck him in Solitary Confinement cell, with the Prison issued canvas hood to be worn at all times over his ugly head, so he cant look or speak to another Prisoner. And occasionally escort him out of his silent system cell, to the Triangle at the end of the cell block middle tier, to receive his first instalment of 50 cuts by the flogging with the Cat-O-Nine Tails and the Cane Birch. When he passes out from all the blood from his whipping wounds and the sheer pain from the Cat, and the Salt rubbed into his many slashes and cuts. Take him down to the Old Jails infirmary Hospital, and when his wounds are healed, after a few months. Take him back to the Triangle Rack to receive the rest of his Cuts!…………. Then if he still pleads that he is innocent…… Then he can be taken to Ned Kellys famous Gallows to be Hung by the neck, until he is Dead. And hang him through the Gallows Drop slowly, as they often did back then. By slow strangulation , and by the weight of the drop, slowly commonly severing the Prisoners head after slowly breaking their neck. ….. Where the old Prison saying goes, if the Prisoners survived the Drop from their Hanging, then they would be granted a Pardon…… It never happened, though, sometime the head of the body was lifted out of the Hangman Noose, while the prisoner was still conscious and was taken back up to the Gallows and the Prisoner was Hung again…..No Appealing against their very harsh sentence back then in the Old Melbourne Gaol…. Just for the record, all this prison harsh, brutal treatment of the Prisoners, is written down and recorded in the Old Melbourne Gaols , Prison files and leather bound Ledgers in old hand written pen and ink…… Today Prisoners need to be sentenced to this Nineteenth Century Prison Justice….. Back when Public Hanging were still in vogue…. for all the people of Melbourne to watch …..and see justice served!………The canvas Hood, as seen on the on this film, were still being used along with screw on hand cuffs and manicles, walloper waddy batons, shackles, leg irons, canvas straight jackets and hobbles in Pentridge Gaol in the early twentieth century, as were under ground solitary confinement cell block underground Dungeons, with underground tunnels linking them up from one cell block to another, so Dangerous Prisoners could be escorted by the warders, while the Prisoners had no human contact, with other prisoners, while they were being shangied and often with force to there Maximum Security Bluestone Slots.as they were called by the Crims who feared them. Today Prisoners still use the jail slang, that the are going to the Slot, when they are being sent to high security Maximum security Solitary confinement cells in the modern Supermax Prison. The only difference today, though is they now have Geneva Convention human rights and a duty of care to be upheld by the Warders or Prison Officers as part of their strict management…treatment in todays jails. But not back in the Nineteenth and early Twentieth Century Gaol Regimes……………

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  9. As always Steve your posts are descriptive and enlightening and transport me there for the experience. I can feel, smell & hear the oppression of the gaol and I never want to experience it firsthand. Thank you. I’m not at all an aggressive person, but when it comes to GBC I change into a werewolf that wants to see the worst possible punishment for him. Murderers like this, who scream their innocence, make me terribly angry. He is accountable for the path of destruction he has left in the lives of so many for his hunt for the ‘easy money’ for his better lifestyle with another. His own children’s lives have changed forever without their mummy. What a filthy selfish mongrel, lowest of low. I’m feeling better now, thanks for the broad shoulders. When his sentence is handed down I’m going to do that nudie run for sure.

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    • Hi Tibby2,

      While the Trial is now only months away, it will be huge, and I have no doubts GBC will be found Guilty, and will then appeal, and such appeal will be either denied, or if allowed, will result in the conviction being upheld, so you may need to prepare for several nudie runs.

      I am also certain that the trial will reveal Alison Baden Clay to have been a very loving, loyal, and forgiving wife, who was driven to her wits end by the most self centred ego driven sociopath one could ever encounter, yet who never stopped trying to resurrect her troubled marriage to the very end, perhaps more out of love and support for her daughters than out of any self interest.

      Every time I see a picture of Alison Baden Clay, I see someone who’s beauty was far more than skin deep. Her smile radiates love and inner beauty.

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      • OK Dan we’ll all hold on and take that bumpy ride together. Reports all said Allison was a private person and kept her pain to herself. Her diary and personal problems have been dragged through the tabloids but she should realise that it’s vital to see the culprit hung, drawn and quartered. At least he’s where he deserves to be & porridge is too good for him. Steve described the regular strip searches :) open wide :)

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  10. Happy New Year folks! Pardon me for rehashing a much discussed topic, but now that we are on home straight to trial, I’ve been pondering the words/actions of others linked to this case from a ‘what would I do’ angle. Bruce Flegg’s witness statement just doesn’t sit right with me. He was awoken in the night by a blood-curdling scream. It startled him enough to warrant getting out of bed to investigate – even wake a sleeping house guest. I couldn’t see myself doing this unless I was VERY worried about the situation and felt it needed urgent attention/action by way of a phone call to Police. I would want someone awake with me if expecting Police in the middle of the night. If I wasn’t so concerned, it could wait until morning “Did you hear that last night?”.

    Flegg is a grown man, a doctor, a politician who has no doubt encountered many situations where he has had to think quick on his feet. It is my opinion that he woke his guest/assistant/ADVISOR knowing DAMN WELL where the noise came from and who was involved and wanted an opinion as to whether it would be wise to do anything about it (ie ‘complicate’ things for HIMSELF as a result!) If it were a neighbour unknown to him, would he have called police? I believe Bruce Flegg knew Allison Baden-Clay was in grave danger that fateful night and he chose not to intervene. One thing to wake a sleeping partner beside you perhaps, but to walk down other end of your house and wake a guest … then do nothing???

    Then there’s the loaning of the phone – another red flag. If GBC needed a phone after his was taken by Police, I would think he’d have other closer connections from whom he could borrow from. Hell, for $99 or whatever he could buy a prepaid one over the counter at Woolies or Aust Post. Why Flegg and why THAT phone that was later found to contain the secretly recorded meeting with fellow Pollies. I don’t believe that was any accident, though unsure as to what exactly the motive behind it was. More to come during trial I believe. Eyes & ears on you Bruce Flegg.

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      • Of Course he is not letting on all he knows, He is in Politics after all, but he is not the only one who heard noises in the night but did not fully investigate the source of such or call police.

        Flegg was already loosing credibility in the community, his personal life was unraveling, so I am surprised he would have seen any benefit in lending an ear to GBC who was seeking a $ 400K loan, or providing a Murder Suspect with a phone, and being in Politics, he is sure to have known that GBC was a suspect ahead of the general population. This causes me to wonder if GBC had some dirt on him, and that is why he provided a phone, but no one in their right mind would lend a computer or phone to anyone other than a very close friend without first removing any personal or sensitive files from such.

        The Mystery Thickens.

        It will also be very interesting to see the detail gathered by QP about Nigel and Elaine’s Roles, and the “I Want it all:” Mistress, and others like Mr Cheeseburger who helped facilitate some business accommodation and Property deals.

        There will be more than just GBC with damaged reputations after this trial.

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  11. Hi everyone, The anticipation is building towards some justice in 2014, Bring it on…

    Also this is just a little test message whilst I work out why some folks cannot comment here! If you see this can you say so by replying to me.Ta

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  12. Do you think those scratches were deep enough to scar? I hope they are a reminder when he looks in the mirror and to anyone who looks at that Pie Face.
    An after thought though, such a horrific reminder to the three little ones.

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    • Interesting thoughts Tibby,

      Most people would be haunted by any reminder of their involvement in such deeds, but unfortunately, this is not the case for narcissists and sociopaths/psychopaths

      Unfortunately such people have no remorse for their actions, and have the means of justifying anything they do, and are all pathological liars.

      However, the one thing these people absolutely hate is being exposed for what they are, and I am sure that the prosecution will have no difficulty in exposing GBC’s deceitful lifestyle.

      So while GBC will not loose any sleep over his actions in murdering ABC, and denying his daughters the upbringing Alllison would have provided them, he will suffer the embarrassment of being exposed as a pathological liar.

      One of my Sisters has a Step-mother-in-law who is a sociopath and who has caused massive rifts in both her own family with her first husband, and subsequently in her second Husband’s Family, however, both affected families have united and take every opportunity to expose the miss-truths that the woman has been perpetrating over the years.

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      • Dan that’s sad, so much work ahead of the family and I hope she gets the message and learns the lesson. Good luck to them with their quest because mother in law, if in denial won’t learn a bloody thing.

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  13. Tomorrow we wake up to a new moon and a Chinese New Year so it will be a fresh pony to ride/Year of the Horse. After that lot of fireworks, it’s just the weekend before gerbil’s pre-trial starts. Yahoo.
    Wish I could be in attendance, but sadly not – the broomstick is in for maintenance; sealing wax and string needed.

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  14. Will the pre trial be an open court in Brisbane & does anyone know what might be released to us, the great unwashed?
    This is killing me….I need to know.
    Only 3 days away.
    3rd & 4th Feb.

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  15. I’ve been told that the court will be open. What we can expect, is some detail of the relationship counsellor’s excuse as to why they didn’t want to be called. Whether GBC will be present – I guess unless the court wanted to ask him something in particular, then he would not be required to attend.
    Am in the dark as much as the rest of us plebs, Tibby. If I hear differently, I’ll post here. :)

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  16. Hi everyone, I have been off the radar for a while but I will be back periodically to join you in the gallop towards justice for Allison! I hope some healing has taken place since Allison’s gruesome murder for the girls and for Allison’s Dickie family and friends. I also hope whatever guilt the guilty parties are capable of feeling has plagued them to date and will never stop doing so. Every dog supposedly gets his day. It is time for her killer and any accomplices to get theirs.

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  17. A Utah doctor Martin MacNeill who was having an affair and killed his wife so he could be with the mistress who was ‘the motivation for the murder’, The problem is just days before her murder, the wife told their young daughter (then 6) that she feared her father was killing her. It was the young daughter who found her mother dead in the bath and years later pursued her father’s conviction. Sounding familiar? I’m wondering if this something similar happened in the Baden-Clay household. Does the younger child remember & understand more now she’s older?
    He is now a lifer in jail and the mistress, who was jailed but now released, was the motivation for the murder.
    http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/10/29/martin-macneill-mistress-gypsy-willis-murder-trial

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  18. Hi everyone, some BIG days coming up, but I have to share a very concerning issue that has come to my attention.

    I have been contacted personally by a number of community members who have some concerns as to how they have been contacted via email to join a separate support site for Allison (not related to me or this site). Those details are private and personal and held by me in the utmost privacy and right to anonymity for folks on here.

    I have no problem with there being anyone any-time who wants to or has started a support site relating to the Baden case or any case. I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM with members emails seemingly been stolen from the databases off my website.

    I really hope this is not the case, but I cannot figure out how these folks have otherwise been contacted when their emails are private and confidential.

    ANYONE WITH INFORMATION is invited to contact me with copies of any emails they have been sent so I can get to the bottom of this. It is wrong, probably illegal and morally in very bad taste.

    I’M very sad that I am required to post this but I will not tolerate sneaky conduct that seems to of taken place in regards to members that trusted my site with their personal information.

    Please prove I am wrong or will will come down like a ton of bricks, the community as a whole is much more important than any individual. You all know how to contact me. I am dead serious people, contact me now.

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    • Robbo
      You know that I have supported you both publicly and personally throughout your challenges. Indeed, you replied to me privately.
      During your unexplained absence, someone voluntarily took up the reins. Why anyone would have taken on the fallout that ensued is beyond my comprehension.
      Your loyal followers were subjected to much vitriol from those who claimed they had been duped by you financially.
      We all hung in, on your side, many of us attacking them verbally for their slander. Perhaps unwisely, as you indicated to me in a private message that you had erred and would be making good.
      In the meantime, someone kept the site going, moderated as best they could the allegations against you, and all done voluntarily despite a harrowing death in the family and the need to purchase a new computer following a virus.
      None of these personal circumstances were known to us at the time – they only came to light when I asked you (nicely) to give credit where it was due.
      You must realise that your triumphant return to the helm not only ignored the efforts of others, but inflamed our sense of injustice by criticising the way your blog looked.
      Once you came back, and perhaps realised the sentiments of others in support of that volunteer, you belatedly expressed appreciation.
      However, I was quickly barred from commenting any more on Aussie Crims, and I know of at least one other contributor who has been similarly banned.
      Luckily, I had made contact with some of your regular contributors over the past year or so while you were otherwise engaged.
      I’m more than happy to now be part of a community focussed upon original intent – the loss of Allison Baden-Clay.
      Robbo, your conspiracy theories and threats – “I will come down like a ton of bricks – I am dead serious folks” – sound like something from an outlaw motorcycle club member.

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      • I have not barred anyone ever as long as I can remember, several years…my logs can show that GHS as it tracks ip’s and all that. I will find out who did though and you may be surprised. BUT i will cross my heart on the health on my young lad I have not banned anyone. Funny things are going on and only a few other people could do that.I will find out no matter how they changed their names or used subterfuge or whatever.In that same message I said no individual is bigger than the site, that includes me.

        I can do no more than be here like I say.I was not looking for a TRIUMPHANT start other to to start again fresh. My personal life has no place here as you or anyone else’s does.

        Im no OMC member GHS nor do I act like one, but I will defend this site and THE MEMBERS PRIVACY with all my might, Is that not expected?

        MY term come down like a ton of bricks refers to wordpress and the privacy of members being abused. I have not named anyone I have said nothing of the sort, I hope it is all wrong. But the emails I am getting say otherwise.

        Finally I appreciate having the guts to reply and offer to remain as part of the community, all I have been upset about is having private details taken from the site.

        I did fall of the face of the earth and have to live with that, but I have put many years into this site, and will defend its existence. I had problems in my life for a short time, and I have the rest of my life to live a good and decent one.I cannot say any-more really…I know what is required of me and I also feel I have a lot to be proud of in my life going forward.

        Thanks and I respect you and your contributions gerbilhuntingseason, I hope you continue to visit.

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  19. One other thing re banning and deleting, gee there is a lot of stuff here head-hunting me and its still here, I don’t ban and delete things, other than as always, stuff gets held up in moderation for certain words, spam and links and so on. I have my say and have always tried to let others have theirs…

    A job admin covered so well over all that time.It is relentless

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  20. Pingback: GERARD BADEN-CLAY Hearing 3rd Feb 2014 | Aussie Criminals and Crooks

  21. Are any of you bloggers attending court today and able to give us the detail later on ?

    Would love to hear some first hand observations of GBC’s demeanor and reaction to proceedings today !

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  22. I think today was a good outcome. Ol’Gerb is a liar. The whole session was a lie he told the counsellor the affair was over, he wanted to stay in the marriage, he was a pillar of society blah blah blah. A real mover & shaker. He didn’t want to do the sessions, so beneath him when his life & finances were in shambles. maybe his dad told him what to expect, wasn’t he a guidance counsellor too?

    Poor Allison wanting to be a better person for him…….I remember Marg Simpson wanting to loose weight to look good for Homer! DOH!

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    • So what kind of a stooge is he then. I wouldn’t have been pushing for the counselor to give evidence at the trial. In my opinion he was hoping that whatever she said would make people think she suicided. Instead it made him look like … well, what he is. Don’t want the language filter to ban my post :)

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