Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 18


No news tonight folks

JURY IN THIS TRIAL RETIRED TO CONSIDER VERDICT AT 11.10AM TODAY

Crazy update WTF Juror(s)

Baden-Clay murder trial: Jury told not to seek outside help as it retires to consider verdict on former Brisbane real estate agent accused of murdering wife

1.20pm

The Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial took a dramatic twist today when the judge warned the jury not to seek outside help in their deliberations.

The former Brisbane real estate agent has pleaded not guilty to murdering his wife Allison and dumping her body under the Kholo Creek bridge in April 2012.

The jury was sent out to begin its deliberations today after Justice John Byrne finished his summing up.

But after two hours of deliberations the jury came back into the courtroom and it emerged that one of them had downloaded a document from the internet on how to behave while on a jury.

Justice Byrne sent the jurors back with a warning not to use any outside aids or seek to receive any new information.

“What was done was wrong,” he said. “I am however grateful it was brought to my attention.”

All previous threads and history including trial can be found clicking on link below https://aussiecriminals.com.au/category/gerard-baden-clay/

List of Trial Witnesses as they appear here

ANY EVIDENCE LIKE PHOTOS, VIDEO OR DOCUMENTS THE COURT RELEASES TO THE PUBLIC WILL BE PUBLISHED in the GBC Documents Page

Brisbane Supreme Court Justice John Byrne has asked a jury to retire to consider a verdict in the trial of Gerard Baden-Clay.

Baden-Clay, 43, has pleaded not guilty to murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home and to dumping her body 13km away at the Kholo Creek Bridge at Anstead on April 19, 2012.

He asked the jury to retire at 11.10am.

Justice Byrne discharged three reserve jurors who had patiently listened to evidence over the past month. (disappointing for them I am sure!)

He thanked them for their service.

brisbane times

“content kindly supplied by Brisbane Times” 

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and

brisbanetimes.com.au reporter

10:52am: Justice Byrne has turned his attention to the prosecutor’s closing address.He acknowledged the prosecution case is a circumstantial case.“A circumstantial case, however, can be powerful,” he said.11:10am: Mr Baden-Clay is sitting motionless in the dock as Justice Byrne continues is summing up.His sister Olivia Walton and brother Adam Baden-Clay are seated in the public gallery behind the dock.MrsBaden-Clay’s parents, Priscilla and Geoff Dickie, are seated in the public gallery on the opposite side of the courtroom with Detective Superintendent Mark Ainsworth, who oversaw the police investigation.

11:11am: Justice Byrne has concluded his summing up of the case.His has dismissed the three female reserve jurors.
11:11am: The remaining seven men and five women of the jury have retired to consider their verdict.
11:12am: “I ask you now please to retire to consider your verdict,” Justice Byrne said.11:13am: Court has adjourned.

The wait begins.

11:26am Recap: Justice Byrne’s final instructions to the jury:

“If you find that you need further direction on the case, please send a written message through the Bailiff.

“Likewise, should you wish to be reminded of evidence, let the Bailiff know, and make a note of what you want. In that … the court would recommence. When you return to the courtroom I would provide such further assistance on the law as I can or arrange for the relevant part of the transcript to be found for you and read out, if need be.”

11:31am: Once the jury has reached its verdict it will return to the courtroom where Justice Byrne’s associate will ask:“Have you agreed upon a verdict?”If so, the jurors will reply “Yes”.The associate will then ask: “Do you find the accused Gerard Robert Baden-Clay guilty or not guilty of murder?”The jury’s speaker will then state the verdict.The associate will then ask: “So says your speaker, so say you all?”That is the time-honoured method for inviting the whole of the jury to signify that the verdict announced by the speaker is indeed the unanimous verdict of the jury.If so, the jury will collectively confirm the verdict by saying “Yes”.

11:33am: If the verdict is guilty of murder, no further verdict will be taken.However, if the verdict is not guilty, Justice Byrne’s associate will ask: “How do you find the accused again naming him guilty or not guilty of manslaughter?”The jury’s speaker will answer.The jury will then be asked again to collectively confirm the verdict is unanimous.

12:43pm: Justice Byrne acknowledged the jury had requested for a copy of his summation of the closing addresses from the prosecution and defence counsels.He declined the request and asked the jury to give a written note to the Bailiff requesting for parts, or all, of his summation to be read again in open court.The jury has resumed its deliberations.

1:13pm: The jury has been called back into the courtroom for another direction from Justice Byrne.“There’s been an important matter drawn to my attention,” he said.Justice Byrne said a juror had downloaded material from the internet about how a jury might deliberate its verdict.“I expected that my direction given twice orally and once in writing that you must not inquire outside the courtroom about anything that related to the trial was clear and emphatic,” he said.“What was done was wrong.”

1:16pm: The material downloaded from the internet related to commentary from the United States about the role of a jury.“You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a different system happens to the think,” Justice Byrne said.(seriously pissed off)

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GBC Collage...He is on trial charged with the Murder of his wife Allison Baden-Clay

GBC Collage…He is on trial charged with the Murder of his wife Allison Baden-Clay

Baden-Clay murder trial: Jury told not to seek outside help as it retires to consider verdict on former Brisbane real estate agent accused of murdering wife

3.15pm

The Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial took a dramatic twist today when the judge warned the jury not to seek outside help in their deliberations.

The former Brisbane real estate agent has pleaded not guilty to murdering his wife Allison and dumping her body under the Kholo Creek bridge in April 2012.

The jury was sent out to begin its deliberations today after Justice John Byrne finished his summing up.

But after two hours of deliberations the jury came back into the courtroom and it emerged that one of them had downloaded an overseas guide to jury service from the internet.

Justice Byrne sent the jurors back with a warning not to use any outside aids or seek to receive any new information.

“What was done was wrong,” he said. “I am however grateful it was brought to my attention.”

Allison’s body was found on the creek bank 10 days after Baden-Clay reported her missing from their Brookfield home.

Prosecutors finished summing up their case yesterday before the jury was given directions by Justice Byrne.

The seven men and five women were told they were judges of the facts and must carefully consider the weight and quality of evidence against Baden-Clay.

They were told to consider finding the 43-year-old guilty of manslaughter, if they did not find him guilty of murder.

Justice Byrne said the defence case asserted that Allison died from suicide, falling off the Kholo Creek bridge, a drug overdose, or serotonin syndrome, while the prosecution’s case was that Baden-Clay was a liar who killed his wife and dumped her body.

He told the jury to set aside sympathy and prejudice and carefully consider the evidence against Baden-Clay.

The court heard the case against Baden-Clay was a circumstantial one, but direct evidence was not necessary to convict him of murder.

Justice Byrne concluded his address to the jury today by reminding them there was no definite cause of death.

He told the court the prosecution had argued Allison had died of unnatural causes, and only the person who killed her knew the method of her death.

Earlier this week, the jury heard closing arguments from both the defence and prosecution.

In his final comments to the jury yesterday, crown prosecutor Todd Fuller told them to consider Baden-Clay’s actions on the day his wife disappeared along with the scratches on his face, the leaves in Allison’s hair, and the blood in her car.

Justice Byrne dismissed the three reserve jurors, thanking them for their service and dedication.

Baden-Clay murder trial: Jury hears closing arguments from prosecution

Updated Wed 9 Jul 2014, 9:14pm AEST

Jurors in the murder trial of accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay have been told they have the option of convicting him of manslaughter if they do not think he is guilty of murder.

Prosecutors have finished summing up their case against the former Brisbane real estate agent, who has denied killing his wife Allison in April 2012.

Her body was found on a creek bank 10 days after her husband reported her missing from their home in nearby Brookfield.

Justice John Byrne has now begun summing up the case for the jurors.

Prosecution wraps up case

In his final comments to the jury, crown prosecutor Todd Fuller today told them to consider Baden-Clay’s actions on the day his wife disappeared along with the scratches on his face, the leaves in Allison’s hair, and the blood in her car.

The trial has heard about Baden-Clay’s infidelities, and Mr Fuller says a conversation between the accused and his mistress Toni McHugh the night before Allison’s disappearance might have put significant pressure on Baden-Clay.

“What was going to happen if Allison Baden-Clay found out [about the affair] for a second time?” Mr Fuller said.

“He tried to live without Toni McHugh and couldn’t do it. He had to have her back in his life.”

He told the jury Baden-Clay may have felt he had no other choice but to kill his wife.

“This was a man who was having to deal with the consequences of his own actions, over a long period,” Mr Fuller said.

“Perhaps he felt he had no other choice. No other choice than to take his wife’s life.

“That’s not to say it was premeditated. But when a decision had to be made, that decision was made.

“And consistent with how he behaved in his relationship up to that time with both of these women, calmly and rationally decided to cover it up.”

Mr Fuller also ran though the actions of Baden-Clay on the morning of his wife’s disappearance.

“Gerard gets up, checks emails, then begins a series of calls and texts to Allison almost straight away. Gerard doesn’t bundle his children in the car and go looking. He calls his parents.

“Within 25 minutes he calls the Indooroopilly police.”

He also said Baden-Clay did not tell police of his concerns regarding Allison’s mental health, “yet in this trial her mental health is amplified out of proportion to justify what Baden-Clay did”.

Judge begins summing up the ‘circumstantial’ case

Justice Byrne began his directions to the jury explaining the legal process and advising them there was no burden on Baden-Clay to establish any fact, let alone his innocence.

“He is presumed to be innocent. The burden rests on the prosecution to prove the guilt of the accused. If you are left with a reasonable doubt about guilt, your duty is to acquit,” Justice Byrne said.

“If you are not left with any such doubt, your duty is to convict.

“This is a circumstantial case. Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. It is not necessary that facts be proved by direct evidence.

“To bring in a verdict of guilty based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence it must not only be a reasonable inference, it must be the only reasonable inference.

“You do not have to believe the accused told you the truth before he is entitled to be found not guilty. Baden-Clay’s decision not to provide a formal statement to police is not evidence against him.”

Justice Byrne told the jury that although the indictment charge was murder, they could consider a charge of manslaughter as an alternative.

“Were you to find the accused not guilty of murder, you would consider whether he is guilty or not guilty of manslaughter,” he said.

Justice Byrne also told the jury to consider the difficulty of witness recollections two years after the event, and cautioned about things allegedly said by the deceased.

The jury will have transcripts of witness testimony to take into their deliberations.

Justice Byrne will continue his summing up tomorrow before the jury are expected to begin their deliberations.

 

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477 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 18

  1. I get annoyed when GBC’S defence barrister says ‘It’s just a circumstantial case’, circumstantial evidence points to a persons Guilt, especially when there’s overwhelming circumstantial evidence, as there is in GBC’S case, although we can’t be definite since no one saw GBC do it and their is no direct evidence, but his defence barrister is making out that since their is no direct evidence, he is probably innocent, when it’s actually the opposite.

    Liked by 3 people

      • Most cases are only circumstantial. Why? because the perpetrator of the crime doesn’t want to be caught so they try to conceal their crime.

        If we only convicted on direct evidence (someone witnessing the crime, security camera crime of the accused committing the crime) then most convicted killers would be free.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Exactly, I agree, no one has a video of a crime to present so the whole group of circumstantial evidence shows the ‘picture’ to a rational reasonable juror now

      Like

  2. We humans are not computers…we are well, humans…and how we interpret things and make decisions just cannot be reduced to an exact science. A whole industry exists to proved a wide range of possibilities….but there is no real formula. If you want to get a real insight here, the very best book is INFLUENCE by Robert Cialdini and yes, knowing the seven principles, I can influence you.

    Sure a judge can say “don’t pay any attention to the media and this and that” but that’s impossible to do…unless you have a compartmentalist personality like Bill Clinton.

    Right through this trial people have been trying to influence the jury…clothing colours, phrases used etc.

    Equally, the jury just cannot delete memories and feelings they have seen during the court proceedings…they have observed behaviours and body language of all of the attendees and all of this will go into the “soup mix” which will be the basis of their decision. Then, their decision will be processed according to their personality traits. Some of us are visual, some auditory, some kinesetic (feelings), some a combination.

    To suggest we humans can simply hit a delete button and just IGNORE just doesn’t wash for mine.

    And guess what, in the jury room, the influence game will continue. People with a committed view will try and influence others.

    Question: why is it that we are uncertain before we place a bet in a horse race, and yet when we have we are much more confident of it winning? Answer, we humans like to be consistent and not go against our (now) stated position. I suspect most of the jurors have already placed their bets.

    Liked by 8 people

    • Good observations Shadow.

      I think the ‘ignore those things’ is just the best advice that any imperfect judicial system can offer…..and they’re all imperfect, just some more than others.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Very well said Shadow. It is a unique situation for jurors. I was a juror many years ago on a trial we were told was expected to go for 2 weeks.

        WE heard the opening addresses by the crown and defence and the judge sent us for a break before we heard the 1st witness. In the jury room, one man said I think we vote now, guilty for sure! (BTW he was right in the end )

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  3. Why would GBC take the stand in his own defense at his murder trial? Counsel would advise against it, so much so that they would require him to sign a waiver.

    I can share from as astrological perspective, that the reason is related to the time he was born. The Moon reveals our ‘driving needs’, whereas the Sun our egotistical ‘wants’. GBC’s Moon is in Sagittarius.

    This moon placement insists on having their opinions respected and listened to, above all else. The reason he spoke in his own defense is as simple as that. He and he alone would have made the decision to take the stand. He’ll not have anyone else to blame when this decision goes against him.

    The following is the astrology ‘textbook explanation’ for GBC’s wants and needs mix, which is interesting now that we know so much about him.

    Sun in Virgo and Moon in Sagittarius is a risky combination to have, because he is capable of doing things that he would probably disapprove of himself. He would do them for the sake of adventure, romance and excitement. The puritan nature, commonly the hallmark of Virgo, may have to look the other way while he accumulates a few experiences. He is definitely not a classic Virgo possessing a narrow and focused mind.

    Many of the thoughts that run though his head bear little connection to everyday life. Being surprisingly philosophic and somewhat introspective, instead of looking inside himself, he would seem to hold preconceived notions of what he is or would like to be and act according to those thought processes rather than take a rational approach to the facts in a given situation. He could be so idealistic at times that it would be difficult for anyone to meet his expectations.

    The challenge will always be to control his restlessness and concentrate on things that have true relevancy. He could be very dramatic in all his actions and likely have a good talent for acting. He must be especially careful in his body language and gestures, as this sometimes can have a tendency toward bluntness in dealing with other people. Often others will take a tactless comment much more personally than he intended it. Human sensitivities are something that he will have some difficulty understanding.

    After that, me thinks he’ll be quite content, in the slammer.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Thanks MM, Moon in Sag always daily, have foot in mouth disease by promising BIG Fat nothings through their inbuilt exaggeration whilst living in their own fantasy/epic life movie. The sun in Virgo has the ultimate Madonna/Whore needs daily with their wife/partner. Hence the Madonna Allison and the sluttish on the side…..ANYONE….

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  4. I don’t have much faith in the justice system…. Sadly.. Although having said that there’s been a lot of convictions based on circumstantial evidence. I mean, in many murder cases it’s only the murderer who knows exactly what happened. Yet still gets a conviction. I’m going for manslaughter… Based on the fact that there is so much evidence that links to her death happening at home… He had to have known something. I kind of feel it may have been an accident after an argument… Fuller made no mention of the screams and car screeches and thuds in his closing argument??? I wonder why… In any case I think he panicked and took her body to the creek.. Hoping it would decompose entirely before being found. I would just love to know who has the phone!!! Maybe one day it will be found but I don’t think Olivia or Nigel will let that happen!

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    • I find the sounds from the bridge more compelling. As the defense allege that she walked there, the vehicle sounds, thumps and car door, the very night that she disappears, is not coincidental and “proves” that a car was involved. The other noises back in Brookfield have been disputed and this may cause the jury to dismiss them altogether.

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      • You have to be a long distance ‘walker’ sandiegg to go 13 klicks in one go without rupturing a tendon and just your feet bleeding/ huge blisters on heels/toes when not used to walking even 1 km. I’m a LD walker and it took me quite awhile to get up to 8km. Btw; Allison was a reluctant walker. She even avoided hills according to the BC’s.. We have never heard from anyone other than the BC’s that Allison was even walking. No one in the neighbourhood has ever come forward to say they saw her out and about early each morning. And I find it really unusual if indeed she did walk that she did not do so on the week-end when her daughters could have had a lie-in. Her best friend of 25 years says Allison was definitely NOT a walker which is why she bought the exercise bike. The girls testimony about their Mummy walking was based on GBC’s mention of it as he said she got up very early/before girls were up to walk..

        Liked by 1 person

      • Other charges pending soon by verified ‘insider’ on another site re interfering with a corpse….other members of BC clan. Because QPS dropped that charge against Gerbil in June

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    • Hi BSD70! Interesting thoughts. Re manslaughter charge however, if I was on the jury I would have to ask myself, if they did get into a fight and he smothered or strangled her which seems the most likely scenario, that actually takes quite some minutes to do. Really minutes I believe to fully kill someone. Murder charge does not mean it had to be premeditated. During those minutes when he was doing her in he had some time to stop. Did he decide to keep going and ‘wipe the slate clean’ I’d say yes. Murder 1, guilty!

      Liked by 3 people

      • ML, it’s true. In movies, the victim rolls her eyes, wriggles a bit, seems to nothing with her hands to defend herself — then utters a final little noise, eyes turn up and she’s left there looking like a fairy princess. It’s led to many of us having not a clue what it’s really like to be killed via strangulation or suffocation

        I’ve read it can take several minutes of intensity to strangle a person. Several minutes. Could you do it? Could I? Most of us could not. We’d stop. The person might still die if we stopped, from rupture of vessels in the throat, etc. But most of us couldn’t strangle another person. Suffocation, if using a pillow or something as the means, would be easier from the killer’s point of view, perhaps, because often, the face of the victim would be obscured. But they’d still kick and struggle like crazy. My crazy mother used to thrash us, then she’d hold her hand over our mouths to stop us alerting others with our cries. Her hand was large compared to the size of our faces, so we ended up unable to get air because our noses and mouths were being covered by a strong hand. I can remember what it was like, not being able to get air. It’s a horrible feeling of panic that you couldn’t understand unless you’d experienced it. You kick out and wriggle to get free. That’s automatic. You fight with all you have. In our case, that resulted in a further beating. But I have always been able to understand the desperation that must have gripped Allison when she was being suffocated if in fact that’s how she died. The scratches were so small and few, imo, because she didn’t have the reach — couldn’t get anything to attack to force her killer to let go. Her body would have been in convulsions of twisting, pushing, legs thrashing, etc. It’s a wonder GBC didn’t have a lot more injuries. Only way I can envisage his lack of injuries compared with her death, is if he straddled her and held her arms down with his knees. That way, despite what would have been massive kicking going on from Allison, GBC would have been unaffected as he straddled her and held something down hard over her face. And it wouldn’t have been a matter of seconds. As you say, ML, it would have taken what must have felt to both of them to be an eternity

        Liked by 1 person

        • Exactly! Other possibility is he jumped on her and punched her head first to knock her out or close to it. Hence the leaves in her hair and blood. But I think the nose bleeds after suffocation or strangulation. Yes Allison must have experienced real terror imo.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Yes it is terrifying at the time when your head is being banged about – and it doesn’t leave any after marks apart from terrible bruising about the eyes. It does lead from concussion like feelings to unconsciousness and maybe that is how she – died. She was decomposed enough for bruising not to show on her face ….I don’t know ….

            Liked by 1 person

          • Can’t imagine the pissweak weasel having it in him to throw a punch .
            I don’t think he’d know how .
            I agree suffocation would have been his preferred option .
            Easy for a tall guy to straddle her , arms at her side .
            Especially if she was already sitting or lying on lounge .
            But before containing her properly , in the shock of it ,she has left her mark .

            Liked by 1 person

  5. The only thing that I found a bit disappointing in the brilliant Crown summing up is why Gerard could suddenly call Toni after Allison went missing. Remember that he never called her and deleted the incoming calls so that Al wouldn’t see them on the bill. So…the fact that he immediately began calling Toni reveals that he knew that Allison was never going to see those calls because Gerard knew that she wasn’t coming back…ever. The only way that he could be sure of that is if he killed her.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Agree sandiegg. I am not too keen on the judge. He was the judge at Patel’s case. I think that ghastly Patel “got off” and Patel’s defence lawyer was the other Mr Byrne (GBCs) defence lawyer. I’m worried. Even though Toddy was brilliant, the judge is a worry I think. Don’t like many of his statements (directions).

    Liked by 2 people

    • He did seem to clarify the possible causes of death after the wool that the defense tried to use to cover the jury’s eyes. He has to appear to be fair or it could lay grounds for appeal from either side. Patel was a long complicated case with retrials.. I do remember reading some comments from a judge when he was first convicted that I found extraordinary. It was basically some leniency because he was professional and therefore had more to lose. Outrageous! A professional should know better and career/situation “loss” is all relative and should be equal before the law. Some people in this court do seem to think the judge was moved during some testimony. Disgust at G’s adultery, sadness at Allison’s emotional pain.So, here’s hoping the jury get this right!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hi Jaykay. Yes I agree it does sound much better now that the Colonel Sanders lookalike has summed up the prosecution evidence. Much more confident now … pheww

        Liked by 2 people

    • Jenny; I’m with you. I’ve never been to court but am more than disgusted that this jury has not been sequestered. And that is his call to make in QLD I believe . Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Each state rules different on that. Da’judge sounds like a bit of a flim flam man to me. 😦

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      • Moonraker, some said yesterday that sequestration didn’t protect from jury-tampering and in fact increased the possibility because the jury members were all together. Does that make sense to you? I’m still trying to get it to make sense to me

        The other reason was economic, apparently. And I was ticked-off by someone for not knowing that in Queensland, juries haven’t been sequestered for a couple of years now

        Guess the proof will be in the eating

        As a jury-member, I think I’d prefer to be housed with my fellow jurors. I’d find security in that. It would also assure me that my fellow jurors were being held to the terms (no media, no discussion with non-jurors, etc.). It would relieve me and fellow jurors of having to undertake travel to and from court each day, thus would limit our exposure to possible en-route delays, accidents, people intent upon accosting us, etc. And it would keep our minds on the task. No need to go shopping on the way home, cook for a family, avoid tv, radio, newspapers, discussions, etc., all of which can be and are distractions. With sequestration, jurors are constantly aware of what they’re required to do – their minds remain focused on the task at hand. Imo, anyway

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        • BB-sounds to me like it’s a total cost saving measure. I understand about not sequestered during entire trial however during deliberation should be a given with instructions to shut off and hand in all media devices such as mobiles tablets etc.
          The fact this juror went on an American justice site for advice shows she’s not too bright as they have a completely different judicial system as well as government system than all commonwealth countries; Australia/ Canada/ UK/ South Africa. Now is a hell of a time for her to try and figure out what she is to do as a juror rendering a verdict. Doesn’t sound like she listens to instructions too well if justice read them twice and gave them a written copy.

          Like

  7. I didn’t understand why more wasn’t made of his obviously fake accident at Indro either, when he was asked to come in for closer physical examination. He must have been s###ing himself.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Yeah .. have to trust our justice system cause it’s the only system we’ve got … BUT bit disappointed with the limits of the Pros evidence against the accused … when we seem to know much more circumstantial evidence which wasn’t presented in court … then again … methinks the Pros just selected key evidence to prove murder …re jury and influence, well it’s the Def & Pros teams roles to influence the jury … an unknown is a possible BC plant or two on that jury …

    Liked by 1 person

    • Yep. The Baden Clays try to cultivate people and social climb plus there is the old freemason connection however that may not be in their favour as so are the Dickies. Many people supported him in the beginning but have fallen away. Decent people, even friends, will not want him to get away with murder.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hey dear Caro; I personally was worried about Freemason connection. Still am. And Burleigh Beach is very well versed in that secret organisation. I doubt if during selection potential jurors were asked if they belonged. BC”s are up to their eyeballs in the Freemasons. And witness ‘Mrs. App who had the alleged screaming spider web daughter; her business partner is in every Freemason group on the planet including ‘Freemason Media Org’.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. I don’t think there’d be many Murder charges based purely on circumstantial evidence that result in a conviction for Murder. Sure there are some but mostly there’s always an element of substantial direct evidence involved.

    I think what we’d find is that there’s a lot of ‘Murder’ charges reduced to ‘Manslaughter’ either before a Trial or returned during a Trial.

    Like

    • BR, Does the Fingernail Scratches to GBC’s Face, Leaves caught in Allison’s Hair and Clothing all being species from the BC Garden and only two of which exist at Kholo Bridge, and Allison’s Blood found in a relatively new vehicle, all not represent Direct Evidence ?

      Like

      • Dan

        It’s ‘Direct Evidence’ that GBC had scratches on his faces, there were leaves in her hair, they are species found in his yard etc etc.

        It’s circumstantial how the leaves got there, how the blood got there etc etc.

        The leaves as an example, could be ‘Direct’ if the Botanist showed that those plants only grow in the B’C’s yard…..which I think we all know wouldn’t be the case and those plants are common pests.

        Some of that circumstantial evidence is strong in my opinion (to a fight) and some weak i.e. plant matter in a flowing creek.

        That’s my take.

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      • Dan, Direct evidence is when someone actually sees that person committing a crime, no one saw GBC commit the crime, but circumstantial evidence is very powerful at proving a persons guilt, here’s a example of direct like evidence that’s circumstantial evidence, a lady was stabbed to death in her home, no one saw who did it, then someone walks out the door with a knife and have blood all over their hands, that’s circumstantial evidence, just because the person walked out with blood on their hands doesn’t mean they are guilty, they could have witnessed the crime and decided to pick up the knife and walk out the door and the blood on their hands a could be from the knife itself, but that’s just a example, but with GBC’S case, no one saw him do it so their is no direct evidence, just overwhelming circumstantial evidence which does prove that a person is guilty.

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      • BR I think a lot of people are happy to know it proved, they “killed” the victim. Murder v unlawful killing and intent and so on is legalspeak to a lot of people.

        A downgrade to Manslaughter becomes a sentencing issue at a later date but there is still satisfaction in the jury saying the person did it.

        (not sure I have explained myself here though…mmmm)

        Liked by 2 people

        • I know what you’re saying Robbo.

          It was just a comment addressing the “many murders based on circumstantial evidence result in convictions”…..which is correct and the stats show it.

          What most Stats don’t show is the ‘Murder’ charge being dropped to ‘Manslaughter’ to give the ‘conviction’.

          It’d be interesting to see stats that show how many charges for ‘Murder’ result in a conviction for ‘Murder’ and not just a ‘conviction’.

          Unfortunately all the Stats I can find don’t seem to go that far.

          Maybe they don’t like to advertise it? It’s an extremely touchy subject.

          Like

            • I would be be disappointed if they do reduce it to manslaughter although I hear you. It’s just that the more I have heard about this case, the more obvious it seems to me that it was intentional. When this first happened I considered whether it may have been more of a manslaughter that he has aggravated by trying to conceal the crime but I think that murder fits and that he should wear it.

              Liked by 1 person

    • Hi BR. I think this case will prove you wrong and there’ll be a conviction based on circumstantial evidence. There have been a number of successful convictions for murder even when the body of the deceased has never been found, including the murder of Peter Falconio. Bradley Murdoch was convicted and is in Berrimah Prison where he refuses to eat chicken claiming he is allergic to it.

      So it seems he can kill a guy but he’s deepest fear is chicken.

      Liked by 3 people

        • I’ve never believed Murdoch killed Falconio or abducted Lees

          And how many know that the body of another Englishman was found quite close to where Murdoch allegedly killed Falconio?

          Were Falconio and Lees members of UK intelligence, sneaking around that region and posing as tourists? Was the Australian public sold a load of bullspit including attractive female, murdered/missing boyfriend and all with lashings of titillating detail about her sexual escapades, etc.?

          Did Falconio even die? It’s a ‘mysterious’ region. Huge US presence. All their food flown in. Their garbage flown out. Whitlam claimed he’d get to the bottom of it. We know how he ended up

          Young Englishwoman died approx. two weeks ago in Australia’s rugged interior. Supposedly a student on gap year or something. Found at the bottom of a high drop. Landed on rocks. 250,000 tourists go to the same place every year, apparently. Few deaths result. Not much detail emerged about the dead girl. Media claimed she was conscious when medics got to her, but later died. Media asking if she possibly fell while taking a selfie. So where’s the camera — the final photo?

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          • Speaking of Australia’s rugged interior and mysteries, what about David Brett, the English tourist?

            How many remember reading in the Courier Mail, probably late 80s, early 90s, an excerpt from a UK newspaper which featured sections of a letter written by David Brett to his mother. Brett was by that time back in Australia. His mother was in England. Brett had stayed with his mother after returning from working in Australia. She said he was anxious, worried, and had not wanted to return to Australia but had to, for work reasons. After returning to Australia, Brett wrote to his mother to say he would most likely be dead by the time she received it. And he warned that she was not to believe whatever tales were told regarding the nature of his death

            Certain people want to kill me, he wrote. It was why he’d returned to England from Oz earlier in the year. Brett told his mother that if she was informed he’d died, she must know he’d been murdered, regardless of what claims were made about the circumstances of his death

            Brett did die, purportedly from falling from Ayre’s Rock. It was while searchers were looking for his body that they discovered — Azaria Chamberlain’s missing clothing. The clothing resulted in the freeing of Lindy Chamberlain. Police and others at the time claimed there was no possibility the child’s clothing could have remained intact throughout years of boiling daytime temperatures which plunged to below freezing overnight

            David Brett’s exit from the world was described as an ‘accident’. Two Aborigines claimed they’d seen Brett wandering across the desert toward a ‘forbidden’ section of what then was known as Ayre’s Rock, going on sunset. Brett was said to have fallen from the rock to his death. The Aussie media described Brett as having a mental condition. No mention of his credential were mentioned. No mention of those he feared would kill him. Instead, a ‘Father Gabriel’ from an obscure church in Victoria later claimed Brett had approached him in fear and distress, believing a ‘demon’ lived inside him. Kooky, hey. Father Gabriel was reported by the media as having tried to release Brett from said demon, but the exercise failed. Father Gabriel told the media he truly believed Brett was afflicted by something supernatural

            Brett exited this world as a kook and possible suicide. HIs published letter to his mother implies otherwise. Poor old woman must be dead by now, like her discredited son

            Brett died. Azaria’s clothing was found

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  10. We all shouldn’t expect a verdict to soon, the jury will deliberate for a few hours until any verdict is reached, so at the least the verdict will be returned towards the end of the Court Day, which is about 4:30 pm.

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  11. Can anyone remember if there was any evidence given by the prosecution concerning the weather in the week before the 20th April 2012. I ask because we know it was fine (did not rain until after that date) and there probably would not have been mud around on the trip up and down to the ledge. However if that is not in the prosecutions evidence then it can not be used to explain lack of mud in car and on car etc.

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    • I believe Todd did refer to the very point you make in his final address, i.e. that there had not been wet weather in the week prior to the fateful evening, and accordingly, there is no reasion to expect GBC to have gotten muddy footwear upon disposing of Allison at Kholo Creek as the Defense had suggsted would have occurred, yet there was no evidence of.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. The 15 minute talk between GBC and Allison took place on the 19th, only hours before she was killed. Fuller repeated this several times to the jury yesterday. Most people believe that 15 minute talk occurred on the 18th

    The reason people believe it took place on the 18th is because that’s what GBC has said. Fuller advised the jury that GBC has lied before the court

    So look at the time-line. Allison had a four hour training session on the 19th. After that, she went to the hair-dresser in late afternoon through early evening

    GBC had a busy afternoon too. He picked up the girls after school – took them to Bwana’s – went shopping for sausages – had his credit card rejected, it’s said — held over half an hour of highly charged discussion with TM who was outraged to learn that Allison would be attending the same seminar the next day. Then back to Bwana’s for GBC. His brother had just had a newborn son. GBC did not have a son. The food was served, etc. etc. Then GBC drove the girls home

    The girls said in interviews with police that Allison was there to greet them when they arrived home with their father

    At 8.30, according to Fuller, Allison held a conversation by phone with OW. Allison was speaking softly, indicating her daughters were going to sleep

    Should we allow until 9 p.m, before Allison’s daughters fell asleep?

    GBC claims he was in bed and asleep by 10 p.m. and did not wake until next morning shortly before 6 a.m. He claims Allison disappeared during the hours he was sleeping. His phone, however, was plugged into the charger on his side of the bed at very close to the time which Fuller nominates as Allison’s time of death, i.e. between 1 am and 1.30 am approx.

    We can return here to Fuller’s assertion to the jury yesterday that GBC and Allison held a 15 minute talk about his infidelities. Fuller backs this up by advising the jury that on two occasions, GBC admitted to police that he and Allison had their talk on the 19th. Not the 18th. The 19th.

    During the talk, Allison was to ask GBC about details of his infidelities. And GBC was to answer honestly. Allison’s journal reveals the questions she asked GBC

    So we have Allison’s daughter asleep or almost asleep by 9 p.m. approx.

    We have GBC claiming Allison was lying on the couch watching tv, the last time he saw her in his life

    We know GBC was doing or pretending to do some ironing when the eldest daughter arose for water. GBC had just emerged from below the house and was wearing boxers, t-shirt and shoes, according to the daughter

    An hour later, by 10 p.m., according to him, GBC was asleep and would not awaken until the following day

    There’s a window of possibly one hour in amongst these details and that is between 9 and 10 p.m.

    During that one hour, Allison asked GBC a series of questions about his relationship with TM, highly personal questions involving sex between GBC and TM

    Afterwards, Allison disappeared and her remains were discovered 10 to 11 days later beneath a bridge which is approx. 20 minutes’ drive from her home, according to police

    Additional pressures being brought to bear on GBC on the night of the 19th were his dire financial straits and inability to pay basic bills (his wife had $20 to her name at that juncture). His mistress had demanded he prevent Allison from attending the seminar next day. His brother, unlike GBC, had a son. GBC had informed his mistress he intended to sell his virtually worthless business and promised he would be with her, the mistress. And Allison was demanding answers re: his sexual exploits with that mistress. All these factors had to play a role in the 15-minute Question and Answer session which, according to the time-frame provided by GBC, had to occur somehow between 9 and 10 p.m on the night of the 19th, despite GBC not revealing to the jury/court that the 15 minute question and answer session had occurred on the 19th

    Will the jury be able to work it out from the overwhelming mass of information and many hours of instruction to which they’ve been subjected?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Superlike BB, brilliant summation. I think this is CRITICAL, I’m concerned I didn’t see the judge mention it yet as part of defence case (ie they said talk was 18th), so will he as part of pros?

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      • Thanks, JayKay. It’s there in LJC’s notes from court yesterday, too. And it’s in Fuller’s delivery to the jury yesterday. He tells them the 15 minute talk occurred NOT on the 18th as claimed by GBC, but in fact occurred on the 19th — mere hours before Allison was killed

        Nevertheless, most people still believe the 15 minute talk took place on the night of the 18th. That’s what GBC told the jury. And NBC claimed that he and EBC had gone to Allison’s house on the night of the 18th to babysit the girls so Allison and GBC could ‘go for coffee’. GBC has claimed that on that occasion on the 18th, he and Allison drove to Mr Cootha for their question and answer session

        Those who live in that area of Brisbane have claimed it would have taken almost the entire half hour for GBC and Allison to have driven from their home to Mt Cootha and back – leaving scant time for the 15 minute question and answer session. Nevertheless, even experienced watchers and discussers of this case for approx. two years, expressed surprise upon learning from Fuller yesterday that the 15 minute question and answer session took place on the night Allison was killed

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        • Seriously, I can not see them getting the parents over on the 18th to baby sit just so they can go out for a coffee – like a date. That scenario just does not fit all else we know of their relationship. I believe they did go out for the purpose of having the 15 minute session.

          With regard to GBC saying in his initial interviews that they had a session “last night” can I put this subjective but quite plausible explanation to you all here. Personally when I was studying, or was otherwise busy I have been known to do an “all nighter”. On a few occasions when talking to someone who’d slept the night before, I have mentioned something that happened “last night” and been then questioned with “last night????” Of course what I really meant was the night before last, but as I had not slept, my brain recognised “last night” as the last time I slept.

          I think GBC did an all-nighter on the 19th April 2012 and when, on the morning of the 20th April 2012 he said “last night”, he really meant the night before i.e. the 18th April.

          There could have been more discussion on the 19th- unfinished business from the 18th. That could have riled GBC up a little but I really think it is irrelevant as I think he already had the plan in place to do what he did. I think he had that plan in place for a couple or even a few weeks. I think he may not have had the 19th April as his planned date to do it, but had brought forward his plan to then after his confrontation with TMcH about the conference the next day. If he did not bring it forward there was a real chance that Allison would have learned about his continued deceit and left him and thus prevented him from carrying out what he saw as a solution to all his problems. JMHO but would love to hear what you think.

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          • That’s fascinating Dora – I agree quite plausible, I totally relate to it (usually sleep-deprived!) Regardless of what is true I’m disappointed they didn’t make more of the discrepancy, given how crucial it could have been in the turn of events. It could have been a key point based on him initially telling police it was “last night” – as BB said, just a few hours after their scheduled discussion, the “close-up violence” was occurring. To me this seems a critical point. Alternatively it if was the 18th as he later claimed, it shows the ongoing pressure – one night it’s hearing the wife talk about the mistress, the next evening it’s the mistress about the wife (and of course every day the money issue is growing)…

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          • You read my mind Dora 😉 I have pretty much said same in comments earlier on in trial. I do not believe BC parents casually came over to sit with girls as GBC admitted they very rarely came to house. GBC would take the girls to their house.
            Dora also the BC clan and the Dickie’s only were together once after the actual wedding in all the years G/A were married. No doubt the Dickie’s were not part of Bwana’s long term plans for their ‘show pony’.
            That’s why Olivia & Nigel saying Allison was always on the couch when they came to visit was porky pies. OW would visit went here from Toowoomba or Townsville basically to criticise Allison’s parenting/home making skills. OW even stated in witness box that Allison didn’t want to take her advice on child -rearing.
            The BC’s assertion Allison was depressed over Adam’s new baby boy. Well what about Olivia has a son or two. Why didn’t they mention that? That family really is the limit. Doesn’t matter if what they say makes no sense whatsoever.

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          • Couldn’t agree more strongly with you here, Dora… I regularly go between 1 and 4 nights without sleep for my studies and it messes with my body clock and mental function big-time! It’s more than plausible when you look at the photos of the bed as well. Looks like he just threw the cover back on his side and pulled it back up. Which is what I do when I know I can only sleep for 30 mins or less!

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        • Yes I was aware of it, can’t understand why more wasn’t made of the discrepancy (I guess there are too many to cover lol). A pity LE didn’t ask more at the time about the “last night” – i.e. what time? where? to enable a detailed contradiction – perhaps this is why they glossed over it???
          If the verdict is guilty I won’t care as much – I’m just worrying it will go “wrong” and we’ll be screaming “WHAT ABOUT THIS?!?!?”

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    • I would hope so.
      The alleged talk on the 18th only arose from GBC during the trial – in his earlier interviews with QPS it was always on the 19th.
      The 18th was a recent invention – no doubt to take attention away from the likely volatility of that discussion in addition to the conference the next day.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. It is really irking me that the defence claim “she took some Sertraline and went for a walk…” as if Sertraline is something like paracetamol you take if and when you have a headache. The defence is counting on the ignorance of the jury. I just hope there are those on the jury that have had experience with depression and antidepressants because there is a lot of public ignorance and mis-information concerning those things.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dora, the defence’s scenario is a absolute insult to ABC and her family, making out that she committed suicide by jumping off the bridge, that’s total BS in my opinion.

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    • Absolutely agree Dora. So much ignorance from people re depression, zoloft etc. I have a friend who takes zoloft and she is appalled at all the misinfo that is being churned out by these p#@$ks. Let’s hope some on the jury are not so ignorant

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    • Dora; biggest mistake a defence team can make is under estimating the intelligence and life long experiences of a jury. There will be a member (s) of that jury who has been cheated on and who has been the cheater. Also members with financial issues and possibly those bilked of their money. I felt Byrne talked ‘down’ to them often during his spiels.

      Liked by 2 people

  14. If I was a Defence Barrister, I wouldn’t represent GBC, because I know he’s guilty and I wouldn’t want a guilty person getting acquitted, that’s perverting the course of justice.

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    • Know how you feel, Crime Researcher. Many of us feel likewise at times. But you have to turn it around and look at it from a dfferent perspective. Imagine your brother was accused of a crime he swears to you he did not commit. He tells you he was there, but played no part in the crime. He says he was hit on the head, fell unconscious, and when he awoke he was surrounded by police who claim he had house-breaking implements in his hands

      Your brother can’t explain what put him in that position. He tells you he was simply walking past a business on a dark street. Next he knew, he was being charged by police for breaking and entering, say

      Ok, you know your brother, or at least you believe you know him well. You don’t believe your brother to be guilty and you’re scared for him. If he’s found guilty, he’ll go to prison and his entire life will be marred. He won’t be able to join the navy as he’d planned. And his girlfriend’s family will put an end to his relationship with his girl. Add to that, your brother is small and slight of stature. You’re scared of what larger criminals will do to him in prison

      So what do you do? You want to save your brother. So you find a barrister with a solid reputation to defend your brother. Under those circumstances, wouldn’t you want that barrister to defend your brother will everything at his disposal, even though all those around you are saying your brother is worthless scum and guilty?

      Someone has to defend the accused, don’t they? Because they’re the accused, not ‘guilty’. Many an accused person has been shown to be innocent. Imagine what the world would be like if no-one had defended them

      Liked by 1 person

      • I agree BB, everyone is entitled to a defence whether their guilty or not, let’s say a person is found guilty of a crime and their sentence is not fair, they need a defence barrister to insure they get a fair sentence for the crime they have done, the defence barrister will help them appeal their sentence. But we are all speculating that GBC is guilty, although I and most of the other people on here believe here’s guilty, what would happen if he is innocent and the real killer is found in the future, what would your opinion be of GBC?

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        • The evidence was stacked against GBC from the beginning and defence went with suicide theory. Obviously to them it was somehow more plausible than that Allison went for a walk and was randomly murdered by someone unknown.

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      • I was married to a lawyer. They see it a as a game. My husband used to get a real buzz out of outsmarting his opponent like in a chess game. Following a family court trial fighting for custody of my children, my QC, my husband’s QC, my children’s QC, my husband ( a lawyer) all shook hands and were chatting as though nothing had just happened. I stood on the outside looking in feeling not part of the in-crowd at all.

        Liked by 2 people

        • They back slap each other, pass jokes in the same corridors for years, this is big to us, to them it is another trial!!

          See you at Sailing Sunday then, hows that wife of yours…etc?

          Liked by 2 people

        • Thanks silvertoy…I was saying to LJC when we left court the other day I had been watching the defence & pros & wondered if they were mates….but then the defence was as boring as batsh*t & I cam to the conclusion they probably didn’t have a beer together after work 😉

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  15. And it is now in the hands of the jury. Please let them be “reasonable”!
    After all that I feel like the verdict is swinging – I hope they can remember it’s about deciding if there is another possible scenario which caused Allison’s death.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I am also praying for Allison’s spirit to be with the jury now, to help them cut through all the BS and legal stuff and see the truth. May she eventually rest in peace.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Robbo; the five women will be having some intense discussions with the seven men during delib about the affairs/ GBC’s super inflated ego/his passive aggressive views of his wife me thinks. Although with luck more of the men could think like you do. Let’s hope that’s the straight of it.

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  16. I have seen this final scenario – I was in a similar situation once many years ago. I had found my husband’s mistresse’s phone number (in code) in a couple of places near the house phones and confronted him. The situation escalated quite badly and became pretty violent – I was screaming at him because of his denials – I knew the numbers – a tousle ensued – he started slapping my ears with flat hands – I lashed out and got his face trying to stop him – I felt as though my brains were sloshing around in my head – I could see a kind of murderous rage in his eyes at the time –
    His world was crumbling – he had been sacked by his business partners – we were struggling to pay bills and keep our home – I was furious that he was keeping trysts – how was he managing to pay hotel bills and dinners etc? Did he use condoms ? Was my health at risk? What was to happen to me and the children? The questions went on and on etc etc….
    We did manage to stop however – divorced of course. Would you believe he never intended for me to divorce him – he just wanted both worlds at the time and I can assure you it was not because he was missing out on sex at home. I can really see how a death could have followed and it would have been mine. What would that have been – murder or manslaughter?

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    • Thanks, Silvertoy, for such a graphic and realistic verbal picture of how these things can escalate when emotions are high and stresses are great. You’ve described what could easily have been the situation at the GBC-ABC house the night of the 19th when Allison asked GBC for details of his affair with TM

      Men are usually larger and stronger and more accustomed to physical fights. Men are usually less verbally adept than women and just want to shut up her voice, accusations, etc. The man wants it to just stop so he can sort out his head. A flat-handed slap sounds fairly harmless, but it’s actually a street-fighting technique. If you go to Youtube and bring up ‘street fighting’, you’ll see those front or back-handed, open-handed slaps being advocated as the means via which large, strong men can be brought down. They pack a real wallop, enough to knock a big man out. Those open-handed slaps shake the brain in the skull case and cause unconsciousness. They are very effective if delivered out of the blue. And many men use them on women and children, unaware of how devastating they can be. A lot of people don’t know their own strength and hit harder than intended

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    • Wow. Just wow. you are so lucky to be alive. These kind of people cannot stand for their masks to be ripped off and it is very dangerous for the person who does it.

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      • It’s OK. I am in a good place now. If I had had quite large insurance policies in his favour that would have been the first thing to change. I feel weird writing about it for the first time in 19 years. This case has bought that particular horror back. Strangely it has proved cathartic for me. My husband at the time told me it was all my fault and that I made him do it. After a protracted family court trial and with a shared custody decision by the judge – my husband asked me to marry him again. At the time he did that he had already remarried. I could not trust that he meant it. That told me his new wife was expendable also.

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        • Thank you Silvertoy for sharing such a personal story. You are very strong and brave to get away, well done. Glad you are in a better and safer place now x I have met unfortunately a similar type … many years ago and it takes a lot to get away from them as they don’t let go easily. But the best thing to do always, is walk away. Nothing good ever comes from lies and deception… everything affects everything else.

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          • I didn’t report him you know. It would have been the end of my so-called fairy-tale life. No one knew it was not perfect. Also, I didn’t think anyone would believe me that he was dangerous and devious. At the time I perceived him as clever, charming even charismatic. I was very depressed at the time as he seemed to be never there – doing the classic “climbing his mountains’ and he told me that he wanted people to like him and respect him. I felt not good enough and he said I could not even take a simple business phone message at home – we lived a lie for many years. one day I just threw the proverbial towel in and could not stop crying. that was a mistake because he then had something on me. I was diagnosed as suffering anxiety and therefore not credible. He was a lawyer actually. there is a lot more and I am not blameless but I felt expendable through much of my marriage.

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            • Hi Silvertoy, that’s quite an ordeal and you are clearly not expendable but very strong and capable. I can’t praise you enough for getting away, I know how complicated it can get in such a marriage and how wearying it can be. It’s a vicious cycle – the more you doubt yourself the less capable you are of leaving – which is what they want. Well done for breaking the cycle. You’re stronger for it now I’m sure, and from a philosophical point of view… these things sometimes happen to us, people come into our lives and they are there to show us something… as painful as it is, but if you can come through it and out the other side, it does make you stronger without a doubt. I’m so pleased you were able to get through all of that. xxx I always encourage women to walk sooner rather than later when there is abuse, because the longer you leave it, the less you can ‘see’ the problem and you can start to think the problem is you – and any anxiety or depression as a result then seems to prove that ‘it’s you’. So it’s important to not be distracted by the peripherals and focus on the core issues. Once again, well done for getting away. The good news is though, once you step away, for the rest of your life you are stronger, have a better sense of self, know exactly what you want, who you are, and most importantly who deserves to love you.

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    • I’ve got a feeling silvertoy that you are also more attractive/appealing than the tryst tarts were. These men just have no respect for themselves deep down.
      You can see it in my son’s eyes every time he looks at his wife how much he loves/adores her. He actually stopped associating with a close friend when he found out he was having an affair he was so disgusted. So there are decent good men out there. I’m so sorry to hear what you have been through.

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      • Don’t worry, I discovered a lovely man 12 years ago. I went on to finish a degree, start a new career, even if I am in my 60’s. My children are finally in good place after a few false starts – adults now. bless you

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        • Yeah silvertoy … thanks for sharing that …so true! … being ‘unmasked’ is dangerous for the unmasker … great to hear that you re-built your life, went on to complete studies, met a better partner and that the children (now adults) are finally in a much better place … gives confidence to others that this post-divorce success in re-building life is possible …

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          • Yes there is hope. I went out with losers at first as I had no self esteem. I cleaned former girlfriend’s houses so that I could always be there at school pickup time for my young son and while I got through uni, I was derided as being part of the first wives club by my ex husband and I put on a lot of weight re the drugs. I went from 50 kg to 85 kg for a while. I, my two female counsellors who gave evidence at the family court trial and a couple of my girlfriends who also happened to be biggish were all called “big fat fucking bitches”. This man then asked me to remarry him after we got a shared parenting verdict. Then I weaned myself off antidepressants, lost some of my weight gain, got a fabulous job, met a lovely man, made some lovely new friends and the rest is history.

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    • Now I’m looking at the clock, and it’s ticking very slowly. We will be waiting for quite awhile until the jury give the verdict.

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  17. Is it the crown’s theory that GBC either dumped her body after 1.48AM when his phone went on the charger, or that was when he got back home from dumping her body? I ask because was there any evidence of his phone pinging away from the house (near Kholo bridge) that night? Or is it assumed he left it at home while he dumped her body?

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    • applejack – noboby knows for sure, but hey, go back and check the sworn testimony of witnesses who heard vehicle activity and sounds from Kholo bridge… and see what time it is… there was more than one witness… and the time matches! That is the best answer to your question !

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    • I do not recall the Prosecution asserting any particular time they believe BC made the Dump Trip. They possibly have a theory, but in the absence of anything that can prove such, it is possibly better left undefined as to define a time would only lead to the defense tabling an argument against the suggested time.

      I expect the time Allison was carried to Kholo Creek was before the phone was placed in the charger as if I recall correctly, the disturbances near Kholo Bridge were before midnight. He probably spent the next hour or so cleaning up the crime scene, then had a very sleepless night.

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  18. I’m just waiting for the verdict, I’m looking at my clock and it’s ticking very slowly, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, and so on.

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    • 🙂 Crime Researcher. You could play a game with yourself while waiting. Imagine your feelings if the verdict returned is ‘Not guilty’. Experience those emotions as fully as you can — then do it again. Keep doing it until you get to the point where the emotions have no further power to disturb you

      Do the same with the possible ‘Guilty’ verdict

      Then ‘Manslaughter’

      You might get to the point where none of it has power over you. The point where you accept that’s the way it is and life moves on

      If you reach that point, you’ll be in charge of your own destiny, owner of your own power and emotions. And that’s a very powerful position to be in and one rarely achieved by most of those around you

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      • Thanks for the idea BB, when I think of GBC getting the not guilty verdict I get worried, when I think of him getting the guilty verdict I don’t feel happy but I feel like it’s correct, and I am playing with my emotions, I feel like I am now controlling my own emotions, but I usually don’t feel angry very often which is a good thing since I believe anger is a waste of time and a Negative Emotion which should not be felt regularly, although getting angry occasionally is ok as long as it doesn’t get out of control. When GBC murdered Allison he must have been in a state of rage.

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          • silvertoy, the scary thing is when someone is in a state of Rage, they can do anything, even a normal person could quite easily murder someone, although when I get angry sometimes it never goes any where near a state of rage, when I get angry if my computer has problems I get quite angry, but not near a state of rage.

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            • Crime Researcher, years ago I experienced the only missing-time incident of which I’m aware. A much larger person had for a long time been slapping me around, bullying me, punching me, etc. Forgiving came very easily to me and I even invented an excuse for the person which I believed for quite a few years — I said they suffered split-personality and ‘couldn’t help it’ and didn’t mean it

              Then the final straw came out of the blue. I was dressed up, ready to go out and the person arrived in a bad mood and began criticising me, hitting me, threatening to break my most valued possessions, etc. It went on and then went on some more no matter how I tried to calm him down

              Suddenly, I kicked off my shoes, removed my false tooth — tossed them both across the room. Ripped out the wig-let thing I used to wear in my hair. Pulled out my earrings, ripped my necklace off —- and jumped onto the bed for extra height advantage

              Next I knew, the bully was cowering in a corner. His legs were drawn up to protect the soft parts of his body. His arms were around his head, to protect it. All that was left of his t-shirt were the neckband, the armbands and a few strips of fabric between. He was balled-up tight in the corner, on the ground

              He peered at me from behind his fingers. He was six inches taller than I and almost double my weight. He was a practised fighter. Everyone was afraid of him. He must have realised it was safe to move as I stared at him trying to take it all in. He ran past me, keeping his arms up to protect his head, and took off

              After he’d gone, I went around picking up bits of stuff, trying to find my tooth, etc. I remembered nothing of what had happened, but it was clear I’d absolutely thrashed him. Maybe I terrified him as much as thrashed him. Over the years, I’ve never got back those bits of missing memory. They say it’s not the size of the dog in the fight but the amount of fight in the dog, that counts. Don’t know. Or maybe we all have an inner-King Kong? Or perhaps some angel out there got sick of seeing me being knocked around and took possession of my body for a few minutes to teach the bully a lesson? Who knows. A mystery. It’s never happened since but I know it’s there, know I have that potential. I believe we all have, when pushed to extremes. We spend a lot of time that we don’t know about, just keeping ourselves under control. But there’s always a snapping point

              Liked by 1 person

            • BR, then the jurors must think that if GBC accidently killed Allison, how would he accidently kill Allison, it’s simply not possible and illogical, people heard screams outside the home, so it’s definitely not manslaughter and if the jurors think that they obviously have no logic and common sense.

              Like

    • Robbo, it’s interesting how the judge can give a big a sentence as he like, but if GBC get’s the guilty verdict, hopefully the judge gives him a sentence over 30 years, without parole.

      Like

          • No Robbo, I wasn’t sighing at you….although the info you posted is obviously a bit ‘General’ which isn’t a big deal because the important bits are correct.

            It’s only the Sentence….the “maximum sentence” where here in Qld there is only one sentence. As I said, not a big deal for a cut ‘n paste info sheet on the pertinent points.

            Like

            • All good, I’m a mere layman BR with a small history with the legal system over the years friend. AS long as we get there in the end, cut and paste is the non typist friend when trying to share info. Maybe you are interested in a gig here BR doing a post or 2? cheers

              Liked by 3 people

      • mmm To be honest I have not given the sentence much thought at all, it has been a hurdle we are yet to cross over all this time.

        The first one was a guilty verdict for Murder of manslaughter.(of course I have wanted him locked up since early on in this horrible case)

        That will come and not something I am expecting on the day a verdict is given.

        I read so much stuff, but is 30yrs min for murder in QLD? (aka life)

        Like

        • Robbo, the min sentence for murder is not 30 years, but the min is somewhere between 15 and 25 years. Most people who are convicted of murder get released on parole exactly between 8-15 years, I know that since I have a friend which has worked inside a prison and he knows about the legal system.

          Like

          • Thanks for that! We cant do to much about when one gets parole, they have been stuffing that up forever, although some states are tightening the screws on that little “Scam” (another thread on its own, ie the crims working the system to suit themselves and get parole early think Bailey rapist and murderer)

            Like

            • Robbo, I don’t believe parole should exist, what’s the point, they are out of jail, they check in with their parole officer, they can still commit a crime, they are released from jail, it’s useless and should be abolished, and if Adrian Bailey wasn’t on parole he wouldn’t have raped and murdered Jill Meagher.

              Like

            • JIll Meagher wasn’t let down by Parole as such….she was let down by the Administration of Baileys parole….. and bail.

              Somebody dropped the ball.

              A result of that Inquiry was that the Vic Corrections (Parole and Probation) should ‘talk’ to Vic Police about recently released offenders.

              People assume that everything’s a well oiled machine…….it ain’t.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Under the umbrella of Parole then I thought.

                Needs a overhaul either way BR! that pig should not of been on the streets, like many others

                Can of worms, what about the system that failed to “Talk” to each other and the young lad Luke Batty killed at cricket practice by his dad? yeah

                Anyways for now off topic here

                Liked by 2 people

                • Yeah, Victoria is pretty bad with parole. I knew a female who was a parole officer. Did it strictly for the power kick, was highly UNINTELLIGENT … although she burnt TWO of her houses down and claimed insurance on both.

                  Like

        • Robbo

          If he gets convicted of Murder the only sentence is Mandatory Life.

          He’ll be ‘eligible’ to apply for Parole at the 18 year mark, but not many ‘Lifers’ will get parole first up and then he has to wait a further 6 months to apply again.

          If he gets Manslaughter, the sentence is LIFE…. BUT NOT MANDATORY allowing the Judge to make the sentence.

          The current ‘range’ for Manslaughter is between 7 and 15 depending on the facts.

          If he gets anything under 10 he’ll be eligible for Parole after 50%, anything over 10 and he must serve 80%…..and he’ll have an SVO (Serious Violent Offender)

          Hope I haven’t bored anyone.

          Liked by 2 people

          • BR — not bored at all. Very grateful you took the time. It’s funny how so many of us have pored over the minutia of this case, yet most of us know very little of the legalities

            Like

            • Thanks BB.
              What I missed was that as a ‘Lifer’ even though he may get Parole (around 20) he’ll be on Parole for the rest of his natural life.

              If he’s convicted of Manslaughter and get’s lets say 12….he’ll do a min of 80% (because it’s over 10) and then do the remainder on Parole with an SVO Order….when at the end of his 12, he’ll be off it.

              Like

                • They don’t have to but mostly do. Fuller and BYRNE (Defence) will argue in the Sentencing about these things but I can’t see them not allowing time served.

                  What they will argue (if it’s manslaughter and room for movement on the Sentence) is ‘comparative cases’ and sentencing.

                  Each side will bring up half a dozen or so of the the worst and best (depending on who’s side) to try and get a high or low sentence.

                  It’s up to the Judge to determine where this one sits amongst them.

                  GBC’s ‘no history’ will be his best friend.

                  Like

                    • BR when GBC was charged the penalty for murder was still 15 years … it was changed after he was charged to 20 years … so he will most likely be given 15 if guilty? …

                      Like

                    • No Caro.

                      Murder is and has been “Life” for an extremely long time….probably going back to when “Death” was taken off the books.

                      “Murder” has never been 15 (or similar) in Queensland.

                      You might be thinking of Parole eligibility, which is around the 18 mark now but closer to 20 when the average offender gets released…to parole.

                      Donna pasted the Criminal Code Sect 302 if you want to have a look.

                      Life isn’t ‘now’ 20……it’s “Mandatory Life Imprisonment”.

                      Sometimes in historic cases (think Rolf Harris) they’ll often apply the sentence that reflected sentencing at that time.

                      Like

      • I have just reread your thread. Such rage at the time of death then would make it intended and therefore murder. Even if, under any other circumstance he wouldn’t have the ability to murder because again looking at his history he is a weak man really. Does that make sense?

        Like

  19. A CIRCUMSTANTIAL TRIAL

    The jury has so much to consider…

    • The likely source and meaning of abrasians on GBC’s face the morning he reported his wife missing, linked with forensic evidence that someone else’s DNA was found under Allison’s fingernail/s, albeit insufficient to identify the “owner”;
    • The presence of other unexplained abrasians to his upper body;

    • The bizarre explanation of the vacuum cleaner and the hose;

    • The curious comment by Mrs Dickie that “the place was just sterile”, suggesting that someone had deliberately and methodically cleaned the Baden-Clay kitchen area before she and her husband arrived that day. “There was something about the place that wasn’t quite right”, she said.

    • The missing checkered pyjamas Allison was supposedly wearing when GBC allegedly retired for the night. [Did Allison hide them before she committed suicide?? Or did her killer get rid of them to perhaps hide more blood, along with her phone which has also conveniently disappeared even though it was turned on by someone at 6:31am the morning she allegedly disappeared, just one minute before GBC first tried to call her?]

    • The unexplained placement of toys overnight in the boot of Allison’s car when the children had said they had been left out (downstairs) for charity;

    • The unexplained blood and hair in the almost new Captiva – later forensically proven to be Allison’s blood and hair;

    • The repeated barking of Brian Mason’s dogs in the early hours of 20 April and the sound of voices from the area of the Kholo Creek bridge, just 600-700 metres away from his house. [Could this mean GBC had an accomplice? More charges to come? This timing would also dovetail very nicely with GBC getting back home in time to put his phone on the charger at 1:48am himself… Can’t have it going flat overnight, when he’d have to make those calls to Allison’s iPhone later in the morning to show his concern about her “unexplained” disappearance.]

    • The impossible position of Allison’s body under the bridge, as GerryRocks has clearly captured with his trusty lens, with not a single broken, or even fractured, bone in her body;

    • The proximity of the body to an easily accessible ledge from which the body could have been dropped or thrown into the mud without breakage of bones;

    • The expert opinion of an experienced pathologist confirming that she had either died in the position she was found in or had been “put in that position” not long after her death;

    • The presence of material from six different plants in her freshly coiffured hair, all found growing around the house but only two of which could be found at Kholo Creek;

    • The absence of diatoms in Allison’s liver, kidney and bone marrow – excluding the possibility of drowning “in Kholo Creek or anywhere” as the cause of death;

    • The absence of sufficient Zoloft or other drugs to indicate self-harm;

    • The professional assessments of Allison’s personal doctor, her pyschologist (31 visits… he should have had a very clear view of her potential for self-harm), the relationships counsellor, etc, etc…

    • Plus, NBC’s insistence that he should attend to the insurance papers without delay when her body turned up on the banks of Kholo Creek ten days later…

    ADD TO ALL THE ABOVE… a marriage under extreme stress, a business wallowing in significant debt, a rekindled affair (yes, a “relationship”) with long-term lover Tony McHugh and his promise to have it all sorted so he could be with her “unconditionally” by 1 July, the looming confrontation between Allison and Toni at the conference they were both scheduled to attend on 20 April, and an incredibly narcissistic personality facing bankruptcy according to his own words just a few weeks before. What a cocktail!

    Is anyone still in doubt?

    Liked by 5 people

    • I’m not, how long do they take to consider all that.

      Is there a “Due diligence” clause??? haha

      I think juries at times are pretty sure and thinking shit we cant rock back out there in 40 minutes (probably a good idea, grounds for appeal or something)

      So do we go back over EVERYTHING and cross the T’s and dot the i’s ?

      Personally I think we will hear from them today! thats just my gut

      Like

      • I agree Robbo, think the judge has given them plenty of time to come back today. Love the comments about the deliberation time, it’s a good point.

        Like

    • Interested Duo

      All of those things on your list (apart from the last couple) happened supposedly AFTER the death (according to the Crown).

      The Judge made mention of these ‘post’ things yesterday and said that they in themselves were not a reason to find guilt of Murder. (or something like that)

      Liked by 1 person

    • Interesteduo, thanks for such a well-organised and thought-out post

      No, personally I’ve very little doubt (maybe 0 to 5%) that GBC is responsible for Allison’s death. And most here and in other forums would say the same, most likely

      We’re not the jury, though. And we’ve pored over this case for two years in excruciating and obsessive at times, detail, whereas the jury (in the opinion of many) hasn’t been exposed to anywhere near that level of detail (or they would not have been accepted as members of the jury)

      Believing, as many of us do, that GBC is guilty, has led us to the belief over the years that he’ll be found guilty and ‘punished’ via a long prison sentence

      But reality hit in the past couple of days. We realised the jury has been provided some false information during the trial. And the jury has been assured by the defence that GBC is innocent. Also, the jury’s been confronted by a bewildering amount of testimony and argument. The court and trial are far different to chewing the case over online with people of like-mind. Suddenly, we realize the jury may reach conclusions far from our own. And these may lead to a not-guilty verdict or one of manslaughter with possibly a relatively short sentence

      We’re being required right now to face trial-reality, legal-realities. Our equilibrium has shifted. It’s no longer a case of ‘when’ the case is heard. It’s been heard. We realize now that our opinions don’t matter a fig. It’s all up to the jury with final adjustment made by the court and its players. An innocent verdict has seemed to online sleuths to be an impossibility. Now, we are being forced to accept it’s very much a possibility. So, a big tidal-change flowing through the online community at the moment

      Liked by 5 people

    • Great recap. Can someone enlighten me re the ” bizarre explanation of the vacuum cleaner and the hose”, I missed that, was it brought up in the trial? Thanks 🙂

      Like

        • GBC and NBC gave evidence that G asked N on the morning of 20 April to take the vacuum cleaner and hose from the boot of the Prado and go and vacuum and water the plants to Rob Cheesman’s house which was due for open day the next day. This was when the second lot of QPS had arrived. THe QPS told NBC who was in the process of moving it, to put them back.
          I read somewhere – think it was one of QPS – that they checked the story about the house and it was right – GBC had agreed to “tidy up” before the open house and that he had also fixed a light fitting there (cut on hand).
          The vacuum was tested for blood and came back slightly positive which was attributed to a false positive due to rust.

          Liked by 1 person

  20. Everyone, I don’t believe parole should exist, there is no point, they are released from jail, they check in with their parole officer once a day which doesn’t do anything, they could commit another crime, and if Adrian Bailey wasn’t on parole he wouldn’t have raped and murdered Jill Meagher. Again the legal system has failed us again.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Speaking of Parole Officers TCR; I know not one but two from our neighbourhood and it scares me how incompetent they are and don’t give a toss. They both complain about their jobs constantly and are the laziest people I know. They’re regularly pulling a sickie. None of us can figure how they don’t get chucked out which may say a lot about the state of the penal system in general.

      Like

      • moonraker, Adrian Baileys parole officer only saw him once a week when he’s supposed to see him once a day, it just shows how lazy parole officers are. Parole should be abolished, even if it costs the government more money, it doesn’t matter because it will save lives.

        Like

      • I agree Moonraker.

        I think ‘Parole’ is just a leg into the Public Service and then they desperately try and find a job in Health, Education etc. The only problem there is that the rest of the Public Service know this, so they just become stuck where they are and don’t give a toss about much at all.

        queu Dolly 9-5………

        Like

        • Goodness gracious IC, if you want to correct BR, check your own spelling first.
          Cue. Not queue.
          (They’re homophones, like court and caught)

          Like

  21. Interestedduo – best summary yet. Well done.
    What the judge said is that possible actions after the death could not be used to surmise intent was present – that the killing could be without intent, although still unlawful – hence manslaughter and for some reason, such as fear of consequences, steps were taken to conceal the body.
    He did not say that the possible actions after death could not be considered in coming to a conclusion about an unlawful killing.

    Like

  22. 12:43pm: Justice Byrne acknowledged the jury had requested for a copy of his summation of the closing addresses from the prosecution and defence counsels.

    He declined the request and asked the jury to give a written note to the Bailiff requesting for parts, or all, of his summation to be read again in open court.

    The jury has resumed its deliberations.

    Like

    • Poor buggers! Can’ even imagine the brain drain the jury must be feeling at this point! I know i hardly have a clear thought in my head after the past 4 weeks.

      Oh dear, just read one of the jurors has done something wrong…. I wonder where this is going to go. :-/

      Like

  23. Maybe GBC did accidently kill Allison, how you may ask, GBC was asleep and he was having a nightmare about someone trying to kill him, during a dream or nightmare our body is paralysed so we don’t act out the dream, GBC’S body wasn’t paralysed when he was having the nightmare, Allison got a drink of water and saw her husband walking towards her, and then he killed her without even realising, and then walked back to the lounge after it happened, his dream sleep finished and he went into a light sleep, woke up and knew she was dead, got scared thinking she overdosed on Zoloft and thought the police will think he murdered her, and he decided to dump her body because he was worried about the police thinking he murdered her. But I don’t believe my own theory.

    Like

  24. Out on parole between 8 and 15 years is something I most definitely don’t agree with.

    I also think a Life Sentence should mean just that – in jail for the rest of the convicted person’s natural life.

    Like

    • I know. Why do they even have access to phones/internet at this time? Unless it was something the juror took in (paper form) with them? I’m a bit concerned that the reserve jurors have already been dismissed. What happened if one of these jurors gets the boot?

      Like

    • They do have 4 computers in there, Robbo, with a copy of the trial transcript on there, so they can do easy searches for thing and then look them up in their hardcopies, which everyone has 🙂

      Like

  25. Look at David Murrays twitter, he is a courts and crime editor at the courier mail and Sunday mail, according to his tweets we are getting closer to a verdict.

    Like

    • TCR; really don’t know how DM would know this. No one is allowed to access jury not even judge. Bailiff has been sworn in prior to deliberation to be jurors official spokesperson between them and judge only. All requests to judge from jury via bailiff have to be in writing and he simply hand delivers message.

      Like

      • Yeh good luck with that judge. People in general are used to constantly accessing internet etc. I would really really like to know why they weren’t sequestered. I think it’s because jurors really get upset at the thought of it. I can understand that as some are sequestered for entire trial but just for deliberations? I actually thought that was a no brainer. Something else is going to happen with them being on the loose. Mark my words. Making my blood boil 😦

        Like

        • Out of bad sometimes comes good, Moonraker

          If enough avoidable stuff-ups occur, it might lead to juries being sequestered again in the future (/)

          Like

  26. Ok Everyone, now I think GBC will get the not guilty verdict, because if one juror says GBC is not guilty, he will get the not guilty verdict and will be acquitted since the verdict must be unanimous. And their looks like their is one stupid juror.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I’m back on the “going for mistrial” theory. WTAF could they be thinking, disregarding judge’s instructions (I’m surprised they were allowed their phones at all) and someone said they already had the doc in hand??? I smell something bad…

      Liked by 1 person

  27. There’s a stupid juror, only one, GBC will get acquitted if one juror says he’s not guilty, and that stupid juror will probably say he’s not guilty, so it looks like GBC is going to walk free today or tomorrow.

    Like

  28. Wind is playing havoc with technical chops today so this will be out of order or context with where it might appear and could be duplicated:

    LJC for Prime Minister
    Enviable higher order thinking and executive function;
    Wise interpreter;
    Second to none communication skills even with impostors;
    Resilience;
    Reliability;
    Structured;
    Ability to work within a team and independently;
    Empathic;
    Compassionate.
    On second thought, while you would be capable of fulfilling the top job, Little Fish thinks that business is too dirty and wouldn’t want to see you sullied in the mire and therefore more valuable in more honest and clean environments.
    God bless ya cotton undies.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Absolutely agree with you Little Fish and espec. LJC for Prime Minister. But given she is female and highly intelligent she wouldn’t last too long. The blue tye guys would “get her”. Or maybe miscoginist (spelling??) Clive would quickly be rid of her

      Like

    • Hahaha I only just saw this LF! Thank you for the vote of confidence but I don’t think I would suit the top job… Much better behind the scenes trying to get things done 🙂 Happy (more than) to stay in our honest and clean environment! Xx

      Like

  29. Sounds like the jury want the summary to make all the evidence & statements easier to work through. They should have the judge run through the sections they’re not clear on, but this time take notes.

    Liked by 2 people

  30. If jurors stuff this entire trial up because judge did not sequester them during deliberations.:- I know that in all jurisdictions I know of all media devices are taken away during deliberation. Jurors have to ask court bailiff any questions they have and they relay message to judge. I’m thinking this woman told other jurors she did this as this is beyond nutters if they have mobiles in deliberation room.

    Like

    • Moonraker, the juror downloaded the information (how to deliberate on a jury, which incidentally, was from a USA commentator) and printed it off at home and presented it in the jury room today when they went in to deliberate. A fellow juror informed the Bailiff who gave it to the judge…the rest is history.

      Like

  31. Just thinking ….With the ‘no mud’ thing – he could have taken a change of clothes and shoes and then disposed of dirty ones. would have been easier with someone helping of course. again the question of the vac and the hose and Alison’s phone have not been explained satisfactorily!

    Liked by 1 person

    • silvertoy, here’s my theory about GBC’S shoes, GBC secretly bought another pair of running shoes a few weeks before he killed ABC, and because he had mud on those running shoes, he threw them into a industrial bin somewhere, and Allison’s phone, he crushed her phone by stepping on it and then he threw the crushed phone in a industrial bin as well.

      Liked by 1 person

      • That would make it very premeditated. In that scenario he was just waiting for the right moment. It changes my idea of just overwhelming unexpected rage with that last minute phone fight with Toni. Alison coming in with her ‘little questions’ from her journal would have been the last straw. I was entertaining the theory of just every ‘shitty’ thing coming together and about to explode and coming totally ‘undone’.

        Like

        • silvertoy, it is definitely premeditated, he got himself into a state of rage so it would give him the excuse to kill Allison, I’ll tell you why it’s premeditated, because on April 12, GBC enquired about Allison’s life insurance policy and asked them that if someone murdered her would he get the insurance pay out, then on April 16 he enquired about her life insurance police again, then on April 18.

          Like

    • It would simply be no worries for someone used to covering their tracks. The vacuum has always been a mystery for me I was waiting for it to appear somewhere in the trial as well as a few other details (for example chest scratches looked like they were caused by bush scrub)

      Liked by 1 person

    • But why would he have had mud on his shoes? It hadn’t rained in recent days and he didn’t go down to the bank of the river. He pushed her off from the cement ledge. He didn’t walk in any mud.

      Liked by 2 people

  32. Hi All. Just drove home from shopping in Kenmore and all the television stations have their OB vans set up at Kholo Creek Bridge/Allison’s memorial. Makes me think they are expecting a quick decision by the jury?

    Liked by 1 person

      • itskareny, I hope that too, but the jurors seem stupid because they are using the internet to see How Juries Work, so it looks like GBC has a moderate chance of getting the not guilty verdict.

        Like

  33. If you think GBC will get the Guilty Verdict, like this comment, because I want to see how many people think he will get the guilty verdict.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Justice for Allison is GBC getting the Guilty Verdict, not him getting convicted for manslaughter or getting found not guilty for manslaughter and murder.

    Liked by 1 person

      • silvertoy, the defence did mention that there was no mud found on GBC’S clothing and car, but silvertoy I have a theory about GBC dumping Allison’s body, from my analysis of where Allison’s body was found, whoever killed her would not have walked down under the bridge at night, even with a torch, whoever killed her would have dumped her body in the water nearby and her body floated down under the Kholo Creek Bridge over a period of a few hours at night.

        Liked by 1 person

            • Hi dd…this stuck in my head because when I was in listening to the defence drone on & on he showed his time lapse of the creek but didn’t actually show where Allison had been. Then when hot-Toddy had his go he had the tide times for the dates poor Allison was there & I think he said…don’t quote me…the water was about 1.5m below Allison

              Like

              • For some reason, it stuck in my head, too. The hollow in the mud Allison’s body had left, plus the varying degrees of decomposition, tides at the time, etc.

                Gerry’s awesome descriptions and photos of Kholo Creek (I’m not familiar with the area) gave me an even clearer understanding of how the puzzle fits. A little too convenient that Allison was found directly under the bridge, thus also adding weight to the unlikelyhood of the creek causing her to end up in the perfect hiding spot.

                Liked by 1 person

  35. My ex-husband never showed evidence to the outside of world of an explosive temper. But I, my children and our dogs new about at. This type of narcissist shows a different view to the world at large. My children never said they heard us arguing. Children seem to screen that out maybe. They don’t want the status quo to change.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. This latest jury stuff up is gold for GBC, isn’t it?

    He’d be justified in crying for a mistrial, wouldn’t he?

    Will this teach them to reintroduce sequestering of juries, particularly in light of the fact that at least half the population turns to internet as a matter of course?

    Liked by 1 person

      • That’s what worries me, Silvertoy. Is that why the stopped sequestering juries — because they knew problems would arise as they have already today?

        So next step being ‘judge only’ as with Pistorius?

        Then what — secret judge-only trials, like some of those in the UK?

        Justice would be homeless, wandering around the slums, her gown filthy and trailing in the mud, spat on and derided — justice for those able to pay for it ?

        Liked by 1 person

    • Believe it or not, I squashed what looked like a cross between a caterpillar and one of those ugly hairy things that join together to make a trail….it’s guts were yellow and realized how easily influenced I had been, because I thought, no, it’s mustard colour. Dear oh Me.

      Hugs, prayers, thoughts, positive vibes and strength to Allison’s loved ones.

      Liked by 2 people

    • What a cock up!

      He should have to defend himself then cos why should he keep draining the public coffers. Anything for justice for Allison but everything to do with the alleged murderer seems to turn into a pathetic circus of chaos. Let out the elephants, tigers and whatever animals belonged to those horns hanging on the South African’s facade at Kenmore be reincarnated for revenge.

      Words are not enough.

      Like

  37. Oddly, I’m so ready for the verdict, that I’m having a Adrenaline Rush and my heart is beating faster. I wonder why my body is doing such a strange thing?

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Well I think we can say by now that there is at least one person who’s struggling with “beyond reasonable doubt”. There might be as many as eleven who are frustrated because they want the early pass home…today….NOW!

    We do too! Happy hour cometh…I want to celebrate in style!

    Gerard Baden-Clay-Pinocchio is guilty. Vote it and be done!

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Is anyone able to confirm what is happening courtside? Have the Dickies remained? Is there a throng waiting for the big V? And what of the Bwana fam of the Colour Purple?

    Like

  40. With the life insurance call pre April 20, the ‘leave things to me now’, the lies and contradictions, so much deceit and odd behaviour (for example April 20 calls to the wrong people, even the times of the calls, the business card to doctor very disturbing) as well as the scratches, the leaves, the blood, the desperation – why is it taking soooo long to make a decision : (

    Liked by 2 people

    • Exactly, itskareny. Let’s not forget the call to the insurance company before Allison’s body was formally identified.

      Someone said a few days ago on here that he’s had 2 years to fess up to it being classified as Manslaughter, but every bit of evidence after the fact disputes this (especially his phone records and the scratches).

      I’d go on, but you get my drift – except to say if bullsh*t were music, GBC would be a brass band! 😊

      Liked by 1 person

      • DD, the only difference between Murder and manslaughter is intent. Could still have scratches and it be manslaughter. Could still be guilty of disposing of her body even if it was manslaughter. However as you say – he has had a long time to fess up and say – OK I killed her but I did not mean to. We got into a fight. I believe it was intended though – too much pre-19 th April evidence pointing that way – such as calls to insurance and superannuation, emails to Toni, debts coming due.

        Liked by 1 person

        • All of that doesn’t mean that he hasn’t offered a Plea to Manslaughter, we just simply wouldn’t know as it’s between the Crown and the Defence.

          He’s got to make the first move….not the Crown.

          They wouldn’t go into the why’s and wherefore’s at that stage because the cards would still be held tightly against their respective chests. It’d just be a very general ‘chat’ between the two sides when any offer would be made.

          IF…he did make the offer, the Crown has obviously rejected it and going for broke, so it’s back to square one for both sides.

          Liked by 1 person

  41. Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 1m

    #BadenClay jury asks judge to explain the difference between ‘murder’ and ‘manslaughter’ @7NewsBrisbane

    I’m thinking this is a pretty good sign that he will be found guilty of something?!?!

    Liked by 1 person

  42. I certainly may be wrong but I never thought it would be a quick verdict. And since we’ve already found out there is at least one juror who has an empty attic it may take even longer. May be she wants to review some old ‘Law & Order’ re-runs. Geez Loueez!
    I wouldn’t read too much in to TV /media trucks moving in. They queue up quickly for best spot in which to report from.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Same, Moonraker. Didn’t expect swift verdict. Which is why I was surprised when reading tweets claiming jury had already been out five hours. Didn’t seem that length of time to me ,, more like three hours or less

      Must be hell for the BCs not to have control over the situation, especially GBC

      Love your comment. Haven’t heard Geez Loueez for ages, lol

      Liked by 1 person

  43. Manslaughter: Dictionary: the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or in circumstances not amounting to murder: and Wiki: Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder. In some jurisdictions, such as the UK, Canada, and some Australian states, “adequate provocation” is a partial defence to a charge of murder, which, if accepted by the jury, would convert what would otherwise have been murder into manslaughter

    Liked by 1 person

    • “adequate provocation” : that bloody useless woman. Told the Real Estate Expert she was going to divorce him – take half of what was left of a sinking business, basically threaten to ruin him after letting him do 85%-95% of domestic duties for years after he toiled in the office. Useless bloody driver. And never had the foot-spa warmed up. How dare this lazy, fat, smelly, depressed, drug-addled couch potato threaten to stop him from being the Cen21 Westside Bwana. He wanted to be an “industry legend”, the protege of his hero and mentor, Cen21 head-honcho Chucky T. How dare this useless woman ruin this mans dreams. Geez she had it coming…

      Liked by 2 people

      • He’s a product of his genes and conditioning. Captive to The Legacy. Learning to his dismay that dreams are cheap but achieving the dream is a different kettle of fish. Mid-life approaching. Another decade of supporting children. Someone had to be to blame … Allison will do

        He’s a lot of men and women out there who manage to stop themselves just in time

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    • The definitions and tests ifor murder as opposed to manslaughter in Qld are in the Criminal Code.
      In short – Both are unlawful killing. Murder requires an intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. If that intent is absent in an unlawful killing, it is manslaughter.
      To use a defence, it has to be raised by the defence in the trial.

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    • Oh, I’m chill thanks, Crime Researcher

      Just diced up two kilos of half-frozen steak for the cats. Have fingers like Icy Poles now 🙂

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        • Crime Researcher — I’m just thankful I didn’t slice my fingers off ! When they become that cold there’s no feeling or sensation to warn of proximity to the blade

          But all’s well. All the little glad-wrap parcels done and dusted and back in the freezer ready for the cats in days to come 🙂 Wish human food was as easy to prepare

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              • Deal. I’ll come back as a dog, then. I’m actually a dog lover more than a cat lover, so that suits me just fine. As long as I still get steak!

                Actually, your name suggests you are only a couple of suburbs from me, so save me the trouble of reincarnating as a dog and just let me know when YOU have steak for dinner – I’ll make the potato bake! Lol

                Liked by 1 person

                • Daydreamer, lived in Burleigh for decades but family reasons brought us to the big smoke. Whether or not we’ll head back to Burleigh I don’t know. The crime rate has shot up, if the media’s to be believed. But my footprints must be permanently embedded all along the esplanade. Used to walk it from Big to Little Burleigh (Nobby’s) at least twice a day, rain hail or shine. We all knew each other, same faces pounding along every morning and evening. I try it here but it’s just not the same. I’ve known Burleigh since I was seven and that’s over half a century plus ago. Knew the Gold Coast when it was just a village filled with European refugees – artists, chefs, musicians, all sorts of entertainers and artisans. It really was a paradise back then. Miss it …

                  As to the cats, they were all cast out / neglected by their owners. We were just at the point of thinking we’d recovered long enough from the loss of our lovely dog-who-was-a-family-member and were thinking of getting another — then along came the poor cats. All of them middle-aged at least with problems due to neglect. All with completely different personalities. And they’ve broken my heart when they’ve moved to what they call the Rainbow Bridge, even though I don’t see myself as a cat-person. We’re down to two from four now, just getting over the death of the last one who we’d nursed through to extreme old age. His life-long buddy has been struggling without him and cries now, real distress, when it begins to get dark. So he’s up on my bed now and the other one, who is the most adorable creature I’ve seen outside Disneyland and is almost human, is eating his dinner late

                  We have them in netted enclosures, front and back, for their protection. Meant see-ya to the gardens and means I stagger around like Igor with a hunched back after mowing the lawns bent over double beneath the net. But worth it to know they’re safe. They each have a little house complete with electric blanket. I used to feel guilty about it, about taking better care of animals than the lost humans out there. But I live with it. And the steak works out about the same as tinned cat-food which they don’t like and leave on their plate anyway. So — learning to be a cat-person and learning to accept that cat-hair is part of that. My mother would be disgusted 🙂

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                  • Hi Burleigh Beach,
                    Love your email about those dear little spoilt cats. What a life they all have … fantastic. An electric blanket too. I don’t think your Mum would be disgusted, she would think it is lovely. Good on ya. Hope justice is done tomorrow. And GBC “gets his”

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                    • Aww that’s nice of you 🙂

                      Thank you, Jenny

                      Sooner this trial reaches conclusion, the sooner all those involved will be able to heal and start planning the rest of their lives, eh?

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                  • Awwww! BB – it’s wonderful what you’ve done for those cats 😊

                    I know the Burleigh Esplande well, too – and walk it as often as I can. I’m a born and bred Southern GC gal and can’t imagine living anywhere else, so I can understand how much you miss it.

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                    • Daydreamer, no place like the GC. Ruins you for life. Every time I’ve had to leave and live in the city, I end up squinting on purpose at certain times of day, depending on the light. When it works, the sun glinting off city roof-tops could almost pass for the sun hitting the ocean. Every now and then, we get a northerly breeze that feels as if it’s straight from the GC to the point you can almost smell it. It invariably brings rain, lol. But worth it while it lasts

                      When I was very young, we used to roam the Spit. It was our territory and we knew it like the back of our hands. We spent all day there on the school holidays. Got burned to a crisp and had competitions to see who could pull the biggest piece of skin off 🙂 No need to even take water back then. All you had to do was dig down to your elbows in the hollows of the sand-hills and within a minute or two — all the fresh water you could drink. There used to be mangroves all the way along the Broadwater side, once you were past the jetty, with fresh oysters there for the taking on the rocks. All the dads used to go along with a hammer and chisel and wet sack to collect whatever they needed. Back then, the Jubilee Bridge was made of wood and had a hump in the middle, one lane of traffic each side but it was a squeeze. No tv then, so we’d go to Southport to the ‘pictures’. We kids would salvage half a dozen empty soft-drink bottles from Main Beach, which was the most popular beach by far then. You got tuppence each per bottle. Six bottles got you into the pictures and if you found a few more bottles you had enough for an ice-cream. Glorious childhoods to be had then on the GC, no matter what home life was like. And the old Pier Theatre — another world — what memories. Life was so GOOD then 🙂 The Chinese Arcade in Surfers, the new ‘modern skyscrapers’ being built – Lennon’s Hotel at Broadbeach had the biggest pool we’d ever seen. We used to sneak in just to swim there. Old fashioned chemicals turned our hair green, lol. Wish you could have seen the GC at its best. They should have built a bubble over it to preserve it — and kept those Mexican developers from Down South out

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  44. Today gerryrocks would have taken some photos of the weird Baden Clay family, they probably look happy as usual, and are wearing something Purple as usual.

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  45. Oh jeepers (rolly eye smiley should be here)

    Just read over the way about New Zealand juries. Apparently one juror was special needs. Another baked a cake for the defendant. And not sure, but sounds as if the jurors on the case had a party to celebrate the defendant’s not-guilty verdict

    Poster was of the opinion jurors need to pass basic IQ test in light of complexity now of cases. Agreed

    Liked by 4 people

    • I’m not sure you should be exposing yourself to the ugly side of adult life quite this early in your life, TCR! This is not how normal, rational people behave. Don’t want you getting cynical about life!! 🙂

      Liked by 3 people

        • I know honey but I just want you to know that kind of behaviour isn’t the norm (for normal people)! Sorry – that’s the ‘maternal even though I’m not a mum’ side of me coming out 🙂

          Liked by 2 people

          • Point taken, anyway, If GBC get’s convicted of the ridiculous verdict of manslaughter, will he get paid out the insurance money after he’s released?

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            • Crime Researcher, I don’t know what would happen as far as the money’s concerned

              This whole thing might motivate some to amend their policies, wills, etc. and make their children beneficiaries under a trust involving a few trusted people

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              • BB, hopefully the verdict isn’t manslaughter, it should be murder, although for the people he owes money, they would be hoping that he get’s acquitted of manslaughter and murder, because they need their money.

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  46. Just reading on http://www.aija.org.au which is a seminar for judges/bailiffs etc to learn about dealing with jury/ jurors. One judge stated she found telling jurors NOT to use the internet during deliberation actually made them secretly access it more often. Fascinating reading what some judges say work and others don’t. However the whole thing scared the hell out of me. Sounds to me like they have to treat jurors like spoiled teenagers. One judge reads the riot act before deliberations sequesters them in until verdict but not during trial. I am for him/her. Definitely reads like it’s on a per judge basis not per state basis.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks Moonraker and again — I’m with you

      Bloody hell. If we can afford to send councillors to Spain for a fortnight to study turnip growing, don’t tell me we’re so broke we can’t fork out for twelve people x 3 days or more in order to assure the public they’re getting their money’s worth from the legal system and to assure all those yet to find themselves in the dock that they’ll get a reasonably fair deal

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hey come on, they are paying these people like 30 bucks a day in some states!!!

        None if they are on a benefit!
        Pathetic MP’s get close to $300 a night on top of 6 figure wages to sleep in Canberra.

        At least give them a sleeping bag or a onesey

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  47. Well, that was an anti-climactic experience! People hustling and bustling to get into the (previously locked) courtrooms with the declaration the jury were returning! We (Gerry and I and the handful of other sticklers) thought this was it! At long last, the verdict! But no, it wasn’t to be. It was merely a request for more information.
    I am confident that by this time tomorrow night we will know the verdict.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. One more thing. I was surprised at the absence of “the usual crowd of people” today. You could have shot a canon through the Banco court and overflow 17. Perhaps it was the cold warding them off? Or perhaps the prospect of a nil result today?

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    • That’s interesting, Bellabrissie — your post of 6.13 re: the reduced onlookers

      (every time you write ‘Gerry’, for a moment I think you’re referring to GBC 🙂 )

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      • Oh geebuz no BB 🙂
        I’m thinking “our Gerry” wishes he was a Tom, Dick or Harry during this trial.
        There was a definite absence of many today. I wonder what it will be like tomorrow? I may even score a ticket into the main court room (if I can get myself together early enough).

        Liked by 1 person

        • BellaBrissie, maybe all the talking by the judge put them off as far as attending today? But a lot of people will be expecting a verdict tomorrow, so it could end up being pandemonium, especially if the verdict is not guilty or manslaughter. I hardly ever have the tv on apart from playing DVDs, but recently the men here have had it on to watch the soccer. It was surprising to see GBC’s face large on the screen on the news one evening when I turned around. Hadn’t realised how high-profile this case has become, Australia wide I suppose. Down to the ‘name’ I think. If his name had been Jones, we probably wouldn’t be here and they wouldn’t need an overflow court. But they wanted that name and capitalized on it in the good times, whereas now, in the bad times, it’s worked more like a curse

          Anyway, hope you get a seat in the big court-room tomorrow and keep your handbag close to your side at all times. Oh, and please thank the Good Gerry and LJC and all you other dedicated people for your reports, photos, first-hand accounts, etc. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

          • Not all that much on the news in Melbourne. Some 2 – 3 minute quick news, although for a change they were up to date when the court was closed and the jury went home. Usually it is the previous day’s news. Nothing on the radio news at all this evening. Probably too cold … 11 degrees would you believe and that is what comprises much of the news. Shouldn’t be news in Melb. “Melbourne weather if you don’t like it, wait a minute”.

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          • Hey BB, I agree, I suspect there will be more people tomorrow as most, like me I guess, are expecting a verdict by mid afternoon or so.
            Let’s hope there isn’t another breach by one of the jurors!

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  49. If GBC get’s convicted of manslaughter, how would he have accidently killed her, the autopsy shows that she died by suffocation or strangulation, and no other cause of death is possible, how can GBC suffocating or strangling Allison be a accident?

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  50. I’m forgetting about GBC until tomorrow, we need to all think of more positive things, and if you need some quick information about politics, Today, Clive Palmer and his party have now rejected the abolition of the carbon tax in the senate, and will vote for the return of the better schools plan, Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, is now on a visit to Australia where Tony Abbott made a free trade deal between Australia and Japan, and that’s all for my commenting tonight folks, have a good night!

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    • Tcr aren’t you 13? Surely you have other things to do on your school holidays……? I’d be kicking my 13 year old off the computer by now. Get out go for a bike ride, visit some friends, see a movie…..enjoy your childhood because believe me being an adult makes you appreciate how simple and easy life was at your age.

      Liked by 2 people

  51. When a guilty verdict is handed down, I am predicting a series of in-court outbursts by the Baden-Clays. Firstly GBC will have an outburst, probably yelling out that he is innocent. Olivia will definitely have an outburst, and probably outside the court too, she will front the media mob and deliver a tirade about a “miscarriage of justice” (which she has ranted previously during the bail hearings). I wonder whether Nigel and Elaine will be able to keep their gobs shut. Remember Max Sica’s mother, who didn’t just have an intense outburst, but also appeared to go into meltdown in front of the cameras? She could be outdone by Olivia, Elaine or Nigel perhaps… When the hammer drops, we are going to get some spectacular outbursts from these people. I can’t wait… some real classic Baden-Clay moments are yet to be screened…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hey Caro,

      I do have some photos from today. I will try to upload them soon, I’m so tired haha! Olivia was wearing a white coat, yay something different!

      Looking forward to the end of this trial and taking photos of the press conferences.

      Like

      • Thanks Gerry Rocks … I know you’re tired, BUT you’ve really put in here … you’ve done a fantastic job … rest my friend and we’ll see those pics when you’re ready … they’re worth the wait …

        Like

  52. I expecting an (unsuccessful) appeal once this is done and dusted along with an additional arrest or two. Now, wouldn’t that be nice.

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  53. Well today had everything, from jury retiring on my watch at 11:11am (i’m into the numbers thing)
    To false alarm at 4pm thinking a verdict had been reached, was such a huge let down to go back in to find that a verdict wasn’t reached, rather seeking direction about murder vs manslaughter.

    I haven’t read everyone’s comments so forgive me. I feel (and I obviously have no idea or inside info) that the jury would be sitting at perhaps a 10-2, 11-1, 9-3 guilty verdict for murder at this stage. With the others dissenting and saying it was manslaughter.

    Let’s face it, the world thinks he did it, period! But what was always going to be the biggest issue was no cause of death. This has been an issue because in makes proving INTENT all that much harder. Had there been a broken wind pipe / or some structural damage to her body then in my opinion that would have made it easier to prove intent. Whilst I’ll be disappointed if it’s not a murder verdict, I will be satisfied with manslaughter, if after days & days of deliberation that was the best outcome amongst the jury. One thing is for certain, there won’t be a not guilty verdict under any circumstances. Well if there is, I’m a poor judge haha.

    I’m hoping we will have a verdict by end of tomorrow (Friday), well it’s the 11th, in court 11 🙂

    Personally I think the Baden Clays, will be respectful in the court. They’ve been really good this whole trial. There will be plenty of security present to hose down the raw emotions inside the court. room. I enjoy photographing Olivia, I wish she would offer more variety in colour choices when she walks in of a morning. Thankfully today she wore a white coat instead of purple.

    It’s great to meet other people outside the courts, even though you don’t always know their name, you get to know faces.

    Liked by 3 people

      • Gerryrocks could photograph OW through gauze and half a jar of Vaseline and it could never endear that woman to me or render her attractive

        A back-stabbing, demented, death-skull simian-snake with her dead, squinting eyes and grinning-chimp mouth

        I had to stop the car so Allison could vomit and wet herself

        But you know, apart from that, she seems to be enjoying her wannabe-celeb status

        Liked by 1 person

    • The scratches are intent to me.. But i’m not on the jury sadly..

      Sounds like the jury will either chose murder or manslaughter going by their request to have both explained. You’d naturally think if they were thinking not guilty they wouldn’t ask for an explanation.

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  54. In regards to the failures of early parole being granted by these so called administration human errors, and mistakes, over many years by Victorian Adult and Juvenile parole boards, granting early release before their minimum sentences. You are spot on Crime researcher . Adrian Earnest Edwards/Bayley was well known by the prison system and the Parole Board, many long years before he breached his many chances on parole, and long bouts of freedom , as far back, in fact as him being a young teenager in his early years of violent offending in 1990, when he was sent to jail in H.M.Pentridge Prison, and other Victorian Prisons and he still eventually went on his offending and stalking and violent rape sprees, as cunning as a fox like he always was, when he went on so many years later to rape and murder Jill Meagher. His violent sex offending history, I know would of been on the Prison records administration and should have been and must of been well documented on colourful police and prison mug shots and crime scenes files on the secret internal records of classification prison- police files and known to most of the Victorian Adult Parole Board and even The Police. He had a very thick, long as his arm, extensive file as a known violent sex offender on his Criminal Record , which was of a very sick and violent nature, when he carried out all his many known crimes, and many un-known, crimes, often not reported to police by his many victims out of fear ! This was in the worst cases of very serious violent and sexual offending. And the same case was with Steven James Hunter, the now double murderer of a young woman victim in 1986 and recently of young victim Sarah Cafferkey. And the same with Victorias now worst criminal – Peter Norris Dupas, the Serial Murderer and mutilator rapist. The Victorian Adult Parole board panel sitting on Dupas, kept granting him unconditional freedom, to do what he liked went he was set free many times after long terms of imprisonment in Victorian Jails. Just to give one example, not long before Peter Dupas was released from a minimum security Victorian Jail, H.M. Loddon Prison after serving one of his minimum 12years sentences for rape, he was often daily released from jail unsupervised into the free community to do community work. He always came back, but who knows now what he could have got up to. And he was never supervised at any time. He was let out of jail on trust only, on a CCPP- which was a Community Corrections Prisoner Permit, or as we screws called it a Get out of jail free card, to do what he bloody well liked!……..And not long after he got his minimum sentence parole he went on his then worst to date serial rape and murder spree, to which some cases today are still un-solved. So what Im saying is the Victorian Adult Parole Board, had no dam excuses, years after their Peter Dupas and again many more high profile dangerous prisoners, with they kept giving changes at freedom over and over again, right up to and even after Adrian Earnest Edwards/Bayley. The list is so dam long of Heinous Violent Notorious Prisoner in Victorian Prisons that continued to get out of jail free, by the powers that be on the Parole Boards in Victoria!…….. forgot to mention Hugo Rich, all these criminals once were locked away for committing the worst possible crimes to victims. But were all granted parole and discount minimum prison sentences. Yet reoffended with even more notorious crimes of untold violence on the community. Now their all back in Victorian Prisons again, until some administration mistake by some parole board again thinks they have been rehabilitated!…………….Its all so wrong to the Victim of crime…….So this is why I feel so strongly about Gerald Baden Clay, he is just another cold blooded murderer, pleading Not Guilty – and hopefully by The Scales Of Justice he will be found guilty and receive a very long sentence in prison. And not get some slap on the wrist minimum short sentence!………….

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi, Pentridge Prison Officer, wondered where you were and glad to see you back 🙂

      Years ago, there was a documentary on tv about parole board members who, at the time, according to the doco, were allowed to remain anonymous. Don’t know if that’s still the case but hope not. Why should parole board members be free to inflict sub-humans on the paying public while the parole board members risk nothing and are not held accountable? Does it make sense to anyone? When we strip aside legal arguments and look at the situation from the perspective of the majority, what parole boards do is the equivalent of a ratbag who turns his pit-bulls loose on the community while he hides safely behind his locked door. If he’s held to account, the dogs’ owner claims he’d sent the dogs to obedience school where they’d passed. He claims the dogs hadn’t savaged anyone since their last attack six months ago, at which time he’d believed/been assured by experts that they were no longer dangerous. How was he to know they’d re-offend and savage two children to death when he opened their cage?

      If parole board members were stripped of anonymity and if prior to releasing dangerous prisoners the names and addresses of the parole board members concerned were published, there would almost certainly be far, far fewer criminals granted parole. And let’s add to that the identities and other details of prison psychologists and social workers who’re as keen as parole board members to see parole granted. It would be problem solved, to large degree

      Earlier today, it was said that we don’t have sufficient prisons or funds to build more. And I agree that not all parolees betray the trust invested in them. It was detailed as to how some parole officers are lax and lazy — and why many of them are that way. It is argued that the granting of parole is justified in many instances. The public takes all the above on-board. That same public then recoils in horror when it learns that prisoners like Bayley, with his extensive criminal record of sex offences, was the go-to guy in the prison as far as requesting triple-x rated porn be shown on tv for the gratification of prisoners with often similar criminal histories to Bayley himself, including numerous deviates imprisoned for sex crimes against minors

      Someone today believed a life sentence should mean precisely that. Someone else suggested prisons return to subjecting prisoners convicted of serious crimes to hard-labour. What the public sees is luxury private prisons with suites not unlike Japanese hotels, complete with showers, private toilets, cooking facilities, i.e. microwaves, probably refrigerators, shared gymnasiums, free medical and dental, workshops, libraries, encouragement to work for pay or study, with psychologists and other mental health workers on tap, conjugal visitations, work-experience outside the prison and of course, x-rated porn. Do private hospitals offer anything much superior? Do university campuses? Do homeless shelters? Backpacker hostels?

      Those whom the public would grant parole are those who are not imprisoned for crimes against the person, i.e., white-collar crime. Those whom the public would deny parole are those convicted of violence. The public knows that violent individuals do not quit being violent until they’re too weak or incapacitated to stand. Those who murder should pay with a life-sentence for the life they took — a whole life sentence. And if the State believes that would be too expensive, then the State should reintroduce the death penalty. That is what the majority wants, after all. The majority long ago lost patience with the bleeding hearts and their mantra of ‘Better to let ten guilty men go free than to hang an innocent man’. No, the public will accept the hanging of the occasional innocent man if it means the public can rid itself of killers, serial sex offenders and paedophiles. After all, hundreds of innocent men and women in uniform are killed and being trained to kill every year, in phony wars for profit

      Murders are increasing and appear to be the latest form of self-expression, like the fool who killed a man at Westfield in Parramatta earlier this week before stripping off his shirt, lighting a cigarette, chatting on his phone and taunting police while his victim lay in a pool of blood and a knife sticking from his back. The following day’s news reported the killer sat in a cell, shaking his head and sinking his head into his hands: Oh gee, what have I done — I capital I am in trouble now. I capital I will suffer now. The only thing the fool killer did not do as far as I’m aware, was take a few selfies there over his victim with police in the background. Kill first, think later. Don’t worry, prisons are comfortable, you’ll probably get your own room and your ego will grow by leaps and bounds as result of armies of fecking psychologists desperate to hold onto their pay-packet by pandering to your whines and bleats and creating a few ‘syndromes’ for you as they provide you with a variety of medications to make you feel important and blameless before they and parole board members declare you fit to return to society

      In the good old days, Bayley would be lying six feet under beneath a ton of quick-lime in unconsecrated ground. And it would have been ‘the law’ which put him there, courtesy of a shot between the eyes by someone whom police would never be able to find, ever – a mystery killer doing society a favour

      Liked by 1 person

    • Well said Former H.M. Yes, we do it particularly well in Victoria don’t we (NOT). Wasn’t there a guy who was let out on parole in the war years and murdered someone when on parole. Was it Leonski??? One of my adult children had been walking in an area where Bayley had been roaming. They just don’t care about us law abiding citizens. I’m sure the crims do better than us, helped along by the ass (law is an ass)

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  55. iCandy, if I’m right about who you mean, I wanted you to know I did say something too – I’m “stay Zen” and I certainly challenged “the one” as well. It shows just how difficult it is – either we keep reacting, expending a lot of energy and making oneself a target, or we ignore it and enable it to continue with ourselves or others. The bottom line is saying something usually makes little difference when one has such trouble respecting other views. Be well, protect yourself xx

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  56. There is a new five star rehabilitation, no expense spared built Prison opening up very soon in Country Victoria, which is a mega millions of dollars expansion to the existing club, resort H.M.Loddon Prison. It is just is so un-believable , that these new government correctional facilities,being built for the Crims are so comfortable for todays new inmates. As a former Prison Officer who worked in the draconian old hard jails, such as Pentridge, where the criminals all done, very hard time. These new built humane containment five star, holiday resort universities of crime are a blatent joke and offensive to most victims of crime, committed on them by these very criminals that will be guests in these new multi million dollars, do-gooder complexes!. That we all our voted for elected politicians of both political parties of the Liberal/Nationals and Labor, to keep wasting so many millions of honest good living peoples tax dollars on the hard core criminal scum bags of this country, while so many people from homeless to pensioners to low income and out of work people are battling every day to survive . The government mouth pieces all get up on their soap boxes in parliament speaking, tell us all their in a budget blackhole with only growing debt and no money to spend! That the age of entitlement is over and cuts must be made and we must spend less and tighten all our belts, while they keep continuing at full speed ahead to build, more and more, mega buck modern style prisons that cater for do-gooders to manage the human rights of prisoners and show them respect and with compassion and care. The cunning recidivist career crims go into these new plush rehabilitation jails, and and don’t want to leave, and don’t care if they reoffend and go straight back in. Life is harder on the outside free world for them!………And the money just keeps flowing into the prisons for more prisoner programs and professional academics on very large public service salaries, that wet nurse these crims ready for there rehabilitation and eventual reintergration and prepare them for there parole of release when their minimum sentence is up!……..Then they get out, and reoffend, with no fear of going back to jail again!……….Far more than 35,000 people marched down Sydney Road, for Jill Meagher – very outraged at the incompetent release on Parole of Adrian Earnest Bayley and Steven James Hunter. But the Governments, keep conning us all and say they are cracking down on crime, but the hipocrites keep closing down the old prisons and selling them of to be demolished by property developers, all the while they keep building and opening up more new country club style, five star jails!. Which have to be staffed by more high paid do-gooders. Many of these do-gooders are on up to and way over $ 100,000 wages. A Modern Prison Officer wage starts from a high cost of $ 55,000 plus and growing , and that is not including overtime. So do the maths!…….The Governments all treat us like idiots and morons!……………….Our prisons could be run far more lean and efficient and cost effective than they are at present. The crims used to only get a cold of cell with the basics of a metal frame bed and a second hand used bedding and a grey blanket, a tin for a toilet and a cold tap and metal toilet and that was it !……. Noting else, and only very basic institutional bland food, porridge, spud, savs and bread for toast!……This is where the cuts need to be made, no three course fancy menus, no modern comforts for there entertainment, no prisoner welfare programs to make there stay better for them to behave themselves in jails. The list is very long on what they should not be getting at the tax payers expense! This is where the Government bone trimming cuts must start immediately !……….The prisons that care for the welfare of the likes of Gerald Baden Clay and our ever growing prisoner communities!………..Who really cares about their human rights, and prison conditions apart from the bleeding hearts do-gooders of the scales of justice!………………………
    A lot of good modern state of the art hospitals and schools and public housing could be funded and built by what the millions and millions and millions – Governments continue to waste on the endless prisoner programs and building of caring humane containment modern rehabilitation prison facilities!….

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  57. Hi there Burleigh Beach, I could not agree more with what you wrote. Outstanding , you have said it all. Most Aussies, that have no vested interest in the prisoners in jails – welfare- legal or mental interest, couldn’t give a razoo what happens to them!….. Once even many Prison Officers or warders as we were once called, didn’t give a shit about the rights of crims either. But that has all changed today, a new Prison Officer now has to be a psycho nurse, a teacher, and a crim lover, for the crims every need while he or she is in their custody!…… You are spot on about Adrian Bayley, being the go to man, on tap for any thing sick and x.rated, when he was Mr cool and popular in Victorian Jails……. Back when I was working In Pentridge, the decline of the prisons in Victoria started with the new bred of soft- caring, crim lover do-gooder screws, and academics that were starting out their new prisoner caring professions by calling prisoners on a first name basis, and being nice to them, letting down their guard by sucking up to them, to enhance their rise in promotional rank in their careers!.. Where by most of them now today run the management of the country club prisons of Corrections Victoria. .. It was common practice to screen every night of the week, through a prison hooked up video channel, wired to all the prisoners cells- all evening and night hard core x-rated porn movies. These were watch by many of the Prison Officers in charge of the cell block divisions, also. And the videos were run by a prisoner who had a video player in his cell, to play the pornos. One of the Prisoners that had the job of playing the endless porn tapes, was one of Victorias worst, notorious serial rapist. The Silver Gun Rapist, Peter Vaitos, who used to urine on a victim after raping her!…… It was decided by these do-gooder Prison Officers that this open access to hard core x.rated video porn, and x.rated porn magazines helped pacify and reduce the incident pack rapes and violence in Pentridge. This only fuelled the sick gang or pack rapes in Pentridge, especially in the Pentridge dormatories that were packed full of young violent prisoners and rapists. . But the real reason is that it was just a sick environment for the sexually perverted prisoners to keep them happy and some Prison Officers fuel their sexual hunger, just like the prisoners did raping people in the free world . . So this is just some of the sickness of the prison system, that help create the many Monsters like Adrian Bayley. Prisons were a sick perverted world for Bayley, and this was everything he thrived for, and as a result he continued with this sick aggressive power rapist motivation when he was on his many breaks on Parole, in and out of jail for many years, and would of got away with many of his crimes of rape, because the victims were street workers or to fearful of him!. The same with Peter Dupas, a time bomb rapist, let loose on many occasions in and out of jail- unchecked on parole, who did what he liked in jail. And probably still does, and is the very reason crims like him and Bayley, should never have ever got parole several times in the first place. They should have both been locked away and the key thrown away years before they both went on their stalking rape murder sprees as paroled prisoners. And their is currently another one of them sicko prisoners who escaped from a paedophile child rapist protection holiday do-gooder prison camp, called the Village of the Dammed in Ararat Victoria, who cut off his leg monitoring bracelet and hasn’t been seen off anywhere since!…… This creep should have been kept locked in a high security prison cell, not roaming around a rehabilitation country club, because he was a high protection prison. This really makes me so angry, what these do-gooders do in prisons now to care for the safety of these deviate inmates. Modern Protection Prisons are so screwed up, leaning towards the prisoners rights and welfare!…..This Rambo , camo dressed Sick rapist creep has raped a 13 year old girl, before which was why he was locked up in the first place, he has a long history of escapes from prison before. But as usual Correction Victoria, wet nursed him and kept him in a low security protection prison like caravan unit park!….For the worst of the worst sex- pedo rock spider deviates!….Nothing ever changes, the prisons are so weak no-days!…………………………I know this has nothing to do with the GBC Trial, but, ! bet he also gets well looked after in Arthur Gorrie Prison as a protected species also, by the do-gooders!…………That’s the way prisons in Australia all are today!………..To soft! To weak!
    And this has got a lot do with the rising sex attacks and violence today in the community. There is know deterrence or fear of going to modern prisons!……The Crims all know that the are guaranteed protection, in the do- gooder prisons now being built, by the Government!…..But as Correction Victoria would now say to a old school screw, like me, what would I know about rehabilitation and Unit Management and caring for prisons. Can you believe that they wont even consider me for a job again as a Prison Officer in the many knew jails there about to open!…….. I know because they wont let me apply again as a Prison Officer in their current job vacancies. Im not a suitable person. Ha, bloody Ha !………… .They wont even give me a interview. Corrections Victoria, must really hate me big time , but I don’t care!…….I wouldn’t want a job from them anyway!….Most of them are just lap dog crim lovers and do-gooders!…………………………………………………

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  58. Yeah that’s is right Jenny- Rapist and Strangler – Prisoner : Edward or Eddie Leonski, a U.S.A . Army seviceman on recreation leave in Melbourne. He was sentenced to death and hanged in H.M.Pentride Prison during WW2!… What they should still be doing to their sort today!……… I think their was a Australian movie made on him in the 1980,s… .Cheers. And yeah – Hope Street Brunswick , will forever be a spooky place, because of the horrible events done by serialrapist- murderer – low life human maggot Prisoner :Adrian Earnest Bayley!…… Hope his crim mates all read this at the Melbourne Assessment Prison!…in Spencer Street Melbourne. Rot in hell , Adrian Earnest Edwards/Bayley!……..

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