Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 20


My personal view is the jury have not put in the hard yards tonight in my view.They could go up to 8pm…Going home is just more white noise…Focus and do your duty, it takes guts. disappointing

3.15pm Jurors have been deliberating for more than 18 hours. Haven’t heard from them yet today

Update 11.30am Jury has now been deliberating for nearly 15 hours. No verdict yet. stay tuned

Please NOTE This Community is too important to let any individual ruin it for others!

From now on, bullying in any form will result in ONE WARNING FROM ME (ROBBO) and 2nd time will result in an instant ban from the site.

We are here to discuss important things, not to make personal attacks. Admin (ROBBO) will be the one who determines whether or not a message is deemed as bullying or inappropriate. Thank you for your cooperation

(Robbo, owner and operator of aussiecriminals)

All previous threads and history including trial can be found clicking on link below https://aussiecriminals.com.au/category/gerard-baden-clay/

List of Trial Witnesses as they appear here

ANY EVIDENCE LIKE PHOTOS, VIDEO OR DOCUMENTS THE COURT RELEASES TO THE PUBLIC WILL BE PUBLISHED in the GBC Documents Page

brisbane times

“content kindly supplied by Brisbane Times” 

Gerard Baden-Clay trial: Three days of deliberations and no verdict yet

July 14, 2014 – 6:31PM

The jury in the Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial are spending their third day deliberating a verdict on Monday.

The jury considering the fate of accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay is yet to reach a verdict after a third day of deliberations.

The seven men and five women of the jury returned to the courtroom briefly on Monday after requesting Justice John Byrne explain the nature of circumstantial evidence for the second time.

One juror sent a note to Justice Byrne requesting “another reading of the process and meaning and application of circumstantial evidence to arrive at a verdict”.

Justice Byrne re-read part of his summing up to the jury relating to circumstantial evidence.

“It is not necessary that facts be proved by direct evidence. They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, or by a combination of direct and circumstantial,” he said.

“So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.

“Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence, guilt should not only be a rational inference, it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances.

“If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the accused not guilty.”

One juror lingered in the courtroom re-reading Justice Byrne’s summation which was displayed on a large screen, as the other jurors rose from their seats to return to the deliberation room.

The jury retired to consider its verdict at 11.10am on Thursday after hearing from 72 witnesses, including Mr Baden-Clay, and watching video recordings of police interviews with the Baden-Clays’ three young daughters.

Their deliberations were interrupted four times last week after it was revealed one juror accessed information on the internet and another juror requested the judge explain how the jury should view alleged lies told by Mr Baden-Clay.

The high-profile murder trial will enter its 21st day when the jury resumes its deliberations on Tuesday.

Mr Baden-Clay is accused of killing his wife Allison at their home in the affluent western Brisbane suburb of Brookfield on April 19, 2012, and dumping her body on the banks of Kholo Creek about 14 kilometres away.

He has pleaded not guilty.

Justice Byrne told the jury for the first time last week it could consider a manslaughter verdict if it finds Mr Baden-Clay not guilty of murder.

To find Mr Baden-Clay guilty of manslaughter the jury does not need to conclude he intended to kill his wife, only that he did so unlawfully.

Mr Baden-Clay faces at least 15 years’ in jail without parole if found guilty of murder, while there is no fixed minimum non-parole period for manslaughter.

Brisbane Supreme Court Justice John Byrne has asked a jury to retire to consider a verdict in the trial of Gerard Baden-Clay.

Reserved for day 20 discussion during deliberations

Jurors in the murder trial of Gerard Baden-Clay will return TODAY to continue deliberating after being sent home for the weekend without reaching a verdict.

The jury has now spent just under 12 hours considering a verdict in the trial of the 43-year-old former real estate agent, who has denied killing his wife, Allison, in April 2012.

Her body was found on a creek bank 10 days after she had been reported missing from her home in the Brisbane suburb of Brookfield.

Thurday afternoon, Justice John Byrne had to remind jurors to only consider documents and material presented during the five-week trial, after revelations one of them had downloaded an overseas guide to jury service from the internet.

Justice Byrne scolded them, saying he had given directions three times not to make enquiries outside the courtroom and confiscated the material.

“What was done was wrong. I am, however, grateful it was brought to my attention,” he said.

“You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a very different system of jury trials happens to think,” he said


Remember this?

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Author: Robbo

I also love family, Photography, Cooking a great BBQ , Computers, Reading Crime Books, and solving crimes before the end of the show !

381 thoughts on “Gerard Baden-Clay Trial-Day 20”

    1. This Community is too important to let any individual ruin it for others!

      From now on, bullying in any form will result in ONE WARNING FROM ME (ROBBO) and 2nd time will result in an instant ban from the site.

      We are here to discuss important things, not to make personal attacks. Admin (ROBBO) will be the one who determines whether or not a message is deemed as bullying or inappropriate.
      Thank you for your cooperation

      (Robbo, owner and operator of aussiecriminals)

      Liked by 5 people

      1. Manually liked. My computer has a seizure when I try to use the starred like system, literally, and has to be put into an induced coma and then resuscitated. Not sure if gremlins are in the system or just in my computer.
        Thoughts are with Allison’s long suffering family today and that justice surface.

        Liked by 1 person

  1. This post is really well-said, Robbo 🙂 thank you… I know everyone really appreciates everything you put into this site and we want it to be a welcoming place for everyone to come and share thoughts and opinions and find information. Xx

    Liked by 4 people

        1. Be there for us who can’t.
          We love your take on things.
          Emotions and all.

          (I’d be uncontrollable if I was even in the state of qld and there would be another trial…. )

          I am willing Mon arvo.

          Lmao
          Xx

          Liked by 2 people

            1. Gotta go if you can L, too late to regret it afterwards. I know where I would be If I was in Brissy, plus I need some bodyguards!!! (bodyguardesses?!?!?!)

              Like

        2. Will it be one of those series of sketches that are found under the bed by someone else and they slowly flick through the Sketchbook looking at each sketch that gets darker and darker?

          Then they hear you walking up the stairs….they hurriedly put the Sketchbook back where they found it, but it’s too late, you’ve seen them.

          They back away slowly, fear lines their face. Your smiling, you reach for the Commode under your bed….no, change that to candlestick, your eyes are ablaze…

          I’m getting scared!!!

          Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s a bit mean, he has feelings too. Wait, nope, was thinking of someone else. I guess he will be having to change the address on his business cards.

      Liked by 5 people

      1. And change his name perhaps?
        Drareg Nedab-Yalc
        Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
        Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre
        3068 Ipswich Rd, Wacol
        (07) 3212 0411

        Liked by 3 people

  2. The wait must be awful for the Dickies, my heart goes out to them. It has been a traumatic 2 years. This week should bring some closure.

    I suspect murderers generally lie and deny involvement and juries must routinely have to sift carefully through the detail and separate the lies from what really happened. If not the jury system would be useless, and I can not believe it is. Would make a mockery of the time, effort and $$ spend in a case like this. So I am keeping the faith!

    Allison has lost her life and her girls their mother in a very sad way. Nothing can change that, but at the very least she deserves justice.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. the stats are that 90% of people charged with a criminal offence plead guilty. Of the remaining 10% about 1/2 are dropped. of the remaining 5% half are found guilty and half not guilty. therefore 97% off people charged are convicted. It if completely different with murder because of mandatory sentences. 98% of people charged with murder go to trial. that puts the family through hell. If the government changed the law to provide some incentive to plead guilty a lot more people charged with murder would plead guilty. No doubt everyone will say that there should be no discount. But if it saved the family of the deceased an agonising trial and the uncertainty of a not guilty verdict is that not worth it? Too my mind the only reason there is no discount is because It makes the prosecution look good that they get 98% guilty verdicts on high profile murder charges despite the agony that process causes the victims families.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Ramjet, I think the incentive should NOT BE A DISCOUNT for the guilty if they are good boys and girls and tell the truth, that’s ridiculous. I think it should be a MUCH HEAVIER SENTENCE if it is found that they were NOT TELLING THE TRUTH and wasted prosecution’s time, taxpayer money and added to victims and their families’ anguish. In the case of GBC with the amount of lies and deception he indulged in, it should be an extra 20 years or so – put him away for the rest of his natural life. That will be a great incentive for telling the truth!!! And will stop these costly charades in which intelligent lawyers waste their time and look stupid by having to pander to and propagate the criminal’s lies and spend hours and days doing so. Where’s the justice in that? It is a ridiculous way to go about it, most inefficient $$ wise and in distilling the truth. I say incentivise with very heavy ‘lie/deception sentences’ and cut to the chase asap – will save LOTS of court time and bags of taxpayer $$. Legal form of ‘truth serum’.

        Like

        1. Hi RIP Allison
          In your suggestion those $$ would be greater if he/she went away for the suggested extra length of time i.e. the cost of housing and looking after them.

          The ‘discounts’ only apply to those who plead guilty ‘early’ thereby saving the Public/Crown money as well as saving the families the heartache of Trial.

          Like

          1. I should add…..IF GBC offered a plea to Manslaughter ‘early’ and it wasn’t accepted by the Crown and IF he’s convicted of Manslaughter, then Michael BYRNE would argue that the ‘discount’ should apply…..it was the Crowns decision to not take the Plea and run the Trial on Murder…which didn’t get up.

            That’s my take.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. BR I agree pleading guilty from the get go would save a lot of $$ and heartache, so I agree that can be taken into account in a positive light at sentencing.

            On the other end of the spectrum though, there MUST be a penalty for wasting time and $ with deliberate lies and deception. I feel in principle harsher sentences should be imposed on people like GBC who lie and deceive, costing the taxpayer lots of $$ and increasing the anguish for families of the victims. I realise it will cost even more to keep these criminals behind bars longer, but I think that’s what’s needed to put an end to charades such as the one we have been watching now for 2 years. Longer sentences for such is a cost I as a taxpayer am willing to wear. It will only take a couple of examples for criminals to realise that this is not a good avenue to take.If we don’t take this type of decisive action, there will just be an endless row of ‘catch me if you can’ individuals clogging up the system forever more, with no repercussion to them. They need to be dealt with harshly IMO.

            Like

            1. RIP Allison

              I don’t know where this reply will land with the way this site is at the moment, but it’s in response to your ‘deliberate lies’ post and harsher penalties.

              I know what you’re saying but they then go down the track of proving ‘deliberate lies’ which could make the original verdict even harder to be reached if they’ve got to decide on ‘deliberate lies’ to go along with it.

              Like

    2. RIP, your post made me think…
      I resented the fact that someone (us as tax payers) is still carrying Gerard so to speak, but if the court process brings some sort of justice for Allison and her family, then it will be money well spent.
      Thanks for that.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I have no doubt he will be convicted of at least manslaughter. That will have him in jail for at least 10 years, probable more. Murder will only have him in jail for at least 15 years. In either case that will be sufficient to F his life. His kids will make up their own mind regardless of the verdict or anyone else’s opinion. It is just extremely sad for everyone involved, the kids most of all!

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I hope it will be murder because that is what I sincerely believe it was, and I think he deserves much more than 15 years for all lies and deception he dished up and the cost and trouble he’s caused hundreds of people over the past 2 years with his ‘catch me if you can’ attitude. It is time he faces reality.

      Liked by 5 people

        1. Let’s talk gene pool for a moment.

          Forgetting the obvious rule of “prior knowledge”, which do you think would be the healthier more “switched on” group, (A) a sample who haven’t read papers, watched TV or been exposed to recent events or (B) a group of ordinary citizens.

          Where do group A live, what do they do… This isn’t a shot at them, more at our imperfect legal system.

          And yet, Group A have the ability to create dangerous precedents .

          Tahiti looks nice.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Yes Shadow, it did rather scew the stats from the start, picking a group of people who are so disinterested in what’s going on around them that they knew noting about the GBC case before the trial. We can just hope that they manage to overcome their apathy, take their role seriously and are committed to get to the right verdict.

            Like

  4. All murderers are in denial. They didn’t do it. Even Ivan Milat thinks he is innocent. What worries me is we don’t have one really big piece of evidence that he did it. Although we didn’t have much on Kelli Lane and she’s doing time. She also thinks she is innocent. I also think the Clan of BC’s are all involved some how and they are in denial. It would be a great day this week if little Gerard is charged and the big ol’ boy Bwana and his pious wifey are gathered up to. But that is a dream.
    Waiting and waiting and by the way — love the blogs here.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Louie, I think the legal system should incentivise for criminals to speak the truth – not by discounted sentences if they tell the truth but by much heavier ones if they don’t and take everyone for a very expensive and unnecessary ride. Legal truth serum.

      Like

  5. I’m desperately trying to have an early night but I’m lying here, staring at the roof, thinking through all of this over and over. And it’s giving me heartburn. I hope it’s not stomach ulcers again. I’m only 32 for god’s sake. But I thought I might just take a moment to reflect on the process of going and watching the trial and being involved here…

    I’m not sure I’ve ever been through something that emotionally intense, day in, day out. And watching GBC on the stand as he performed linguistic gymnastics to best save his own backside was somewhat traumatising. More than somewhat traumatising. It was like reliving my own situation with the scary man I’m my own life.

    For uni, I’m often awake for 3, 4, 5 nights at a time but that exhaustion is so different to the one I felt attending trial. Everyone there is invested in seeing justice done (except the BC’s who don’t believe he’s guilty) and that permeates every contact, every conversation, every glance across the room. So if this is how I’m feeling, how must the Dickies and Allison’s friends and family be feeling? It must be amplified a million % because she was integral to their lives. How must her daughters be coping? In the age of the Internet, surely they couldn’t be shielded from this and for that alone, my heart aches with sadness… And the thought is really distressing.

    But when I look at what Allison, though tragically she’s not here, has managed to do… She’s brought together tens of thousands of Australians and people from overseas to fight on her behalf. She’s brought together a small online community who, without fear of judgement, opened their hearts about their experiences with evil people, narcissistic people and cruel, heartless people. And through sharing there is healing and understanding. She did that. And those people are all fighting for her now.

    Xx

    #justiceisnear #justiceforallison #healing

    Liked by 5 people

    1. I too have wondered just how those close to Allison are feeling and coping through this trial and with all the other court appearances etc over the last two years. This crime has affected me to the point of being obsessed with wanting to see justice done, not only for Allison but for her three daughters who have been cast into this heart-wrenching situation through no fault of their own and have to live with all its repercussions. It tears my heart when I think of how they are coping. How awful it must be for those that know and love them is beyond my imagination.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. Hear hear from me too! One word stood out for me – ‘cruel’ – the girls and Mr and Mrs Dickie have lost a mother and daughter, respectively, and then having to endure this prolonged process with no guarantees. Heroes and victims all rolled and pummelled into one.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Good Morning (yes you are all asleep at 1;48am, like good responsible people)

    Arrived back in Brisvegas late last night. I think we might be waiting till middle of the week for a verdict. Unless Justice Byrne, gives the jury direction, in simple ENGLISH, not LEGALESE (language only understood by legal people) it will drag on I think.

    Will be having an easy day today at Hotel Gerard, got Bronchitis a little. Pain in the butt, but there was no way I could not see out the conclusion to this case. Felt physically drained Saturday.

    Can I conclude by saying NO THANKS to GBC, I haven’t seen 1 game of the World Cup, nor any stages of TDF, which I watch religiously every year.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Stay the course Gerry, you and all the other “court attendees” have been brilliant…an electronic man hug to you..and a chicken soup for the flu as well.

      I’m thinking that there will be enormous pressure within the jury room from today’s get-go to bring this to a speedy conclusion. It’s only human nature for the jury to want to get on with their lives…they’ve lived this abnormal, interrupting lifestyle for weeks now and many personal matters are becoming. One thing I do know is that pressure and deadlines force decisions.

      And remember, there surely has to be pressure applied from their home and partner/family whose lives are also on hold.

      I reckon the bailiff might need to have the skills of a wrestling umpire this morning.

      Liked by 5 people

      1. I think it would be so intense in that jury room, especially if they’ve got the majority voting a particular way, held up by the minority.

        If I were in there, I’d chose the strongest, debater whose confident in their communication, without being intimidating to take the reins to work / negotiate on those who have different view.

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Gerry Rocks … sorry you’ve come down with Bronchitis … even missed the world cup this year … you’ve put in much here for us .. all those cool original pics … visiting the bridge and capturing underneath it so that we can see it … fantastic … reporting back to us each day … it’s been a pleasure to have you on the job … plz take care man … your health comes first …

      Liked by 1 person

    3. Hey Gerry-get-ya-Rocks-on, sorry to hear you are feeling poorly:-(. Here, have my heat pack darls.
      You know, I think the Judge’s use of language was poor, legal speak or not.
      In that position, I would have thought the role would necessitate precise and articulate, non-speaking-in-riddles-to-cover-one’s-arse to ensure a just and clear outcome. The legal fraternity, from recent events, quite easily crucify one of their own.
      I suspect he might have just managed to confuse those tasked with making a decision.
      Black or white, red or yellow, oranges or lemons.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Definitely Little Fish, my feeling also. Golly it came right out of left field and confused me also, and I think I am reasonably switched on. Almost sounded like he was giving them some covert message to ‘settle’ for manslaughter….. And got me worried that there really might be something to people and organisations the BC’s belonged to being at work. may not have been his message at all, but it was so foggy it raised suspicion. Really did not impress.

        Like

  7. LJC

    Just be thankful it’s not the Russell Island Land Fraud Case.

    A few facts…..
    16 Defendants
    70 foolscap pages of ‘Allegations’
    8 Defendants with Legal Aid
    ‘Groups’ of Lawyers for different defendants.
    79 ‘Charges’

    The Trial lasted 20 months.
    316 ‘sitting days’
    Jury deliberated on verdict for 14 days.
    Trial ‘abandoned’ when a key Juror fell ill.
    One Detective who handled the case who died 2 years after the Trial was abandoned.

    3 paragraph ‘statement’ from Qld Govt to announce collapse of Trial.

    1 successful Civil Action with…..
    Zero compensation when Vendor company went into liquidation.

    You’ve got a walk in the park. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Durness Street residence was very busy over the weekend I’m told – perhaps a farewell BBQ for youngest son as he returns to Canada, or has he gone already?

    There’s bound to have been a prayer vigil as well. In the deep recesses of their hearts, there lies doom and gloom. I hesitate to consider the utter devastation that will befall them all. So many lives ruined by this ignorant, selfish SOB.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Or perhaps they are preparing for one son to come home. Good luck with that. Normally I would feel more sympathy for the family of someone who does something evil but Allison wasn’t put over that bridge by one person. Another was needed for the logistics of how to do it and to help with the weight-bearing. Then of course there were the children…. He is adamant he didn’t leave them alone in the house and that is possibly the only truthful thing he has said.

      Liked by 3 people

    2. Hmmm….one can’t help but wonder what the pastor makes of GBC’s lies, adultery and murder of his wife…..how does he reconcile all this with the values he stands for and support GBC…..??? He must know by now that other members of the family including his own wife may have been involved, at the very least knew and assisted GBC with the cover-up. Wonder how that sits with him too????

      Like

  9. Good morning gang. Been up since 3.30am watching World Cup Germany 1-0 in extra time over Argentina. I picked Germany so I’m looking for 2 out of 2 today with GBC found guilty!

    7th Coffee coming up! cheers

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Sure will Jessy, been a looooong time coming, not just talking jury, from the day this coward reported Allison “Missing” my gut told me. Coffee helps too…have a good day

        Like

    1. My gut is telling me today is the day.

      Bring home your 2 out of 2 with that GUILTY we all so dearly want to hear.

      Sending every positive vibe I have into the jurors today to get the job done.

      Liked by 5 people

  10. Hopeful for a verdict this afternoon.
    I’m sure the Judge will be wanting this all over today. 1-20 days the Jury receive $500+ a week,and more than 20 days the Jury receive 700+ a week . Today is day 20 🙂

    Like

              1. Think we’re a bit speechess at the moment kat, I know I am :/
                Don’t know what to make of how long it’s taking to make a decision, let’s hope whatever it is is for the right reasons.

                Liked by 1 person

                    1. I should imagine the Dickies would be feeling very upset right about now.Wondering why it is taking so long.

                      Like

                  1. My 2:16 post was positioned above a 9:30am one….???? Not sure if there’s anything that can be done to correct the sequencing problem Robbo???

                    Liked by 1 person

                    1. Ah…looks like it has improved!! I will re-post my question:
                      What access does the jury have to support from people who speak legalese? I assume they won’t just shove them into a room with piles of testimony and other documents, and expect them not to have any questions or need clarifications. Does the judge supply such or is there a dedicated team to assist them through the process of deliberation?

                      (edit robbo,im finding pressing f5 on the page every 5 minutes or so helps the order of messages. I have raised it with the wordpress “Happiness Engineers” as well)

                      Liked by 1 person

                    2. Yes, I thi k you’re right jaykay – MM had something happening tomorrow afternoon from memory

                      The posts are a bit of a muudle by the looks, I replied to Jessy and it ended up in it’s own place separate….

                      Liked by 1 person

                    3. If they have a question or need clarification of anything they have to call the Bailiff and pass him/her a note. The Bailiff takes the note to the judge to read and prepare response. The judge then calls everyone back to court – defendant, prosecution and defence teams and the jury. He then answers the question or clarifies whatever and then the jury return to the jury room

                      Liked by 1 person

    1. Don’t they get paid for the days when they are sent home in Queensland. I know in Victoria the jury get paid 5 days a week for the duration of the trial – until they are discharged.

      Like

    2. Interesting Jessy! That’s not exactly a high pay and probably pittance compared to what the trial has cost to date thanks to the charade GBC chose to put us all through. But it will add up. I am curious – what happens with people who earn and have commitments way more than $500 a week – do their employers pay the difference?

      Like

    1. Surely this should not be allowed, do these people know no boundaries? For Heavens’ sake, photograph GBC and his support group, not innocent and traumatised kids! I hope someone moves them along.

      Liked by 2 people

  11. I think it is just rumour that channel 7 has media at the girls school.

    1- there is a media ban on the Children
    2- the Children’s school hasn’t resumed yet.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Gerard #badenclay’s sister & brother have arrived at court to wait for a verdict @9NewsBrisbane
      Seems all the activity at Durness St over the weekend wasn’t to see Adam off.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Hi BellaBrissie, hope you are not right about Channel 7 crew camped outside BC girls school. That would be just disgusting if that is the case. Forgoodness sake, what are they thinking, haven’t those poor little girls been through enough already, shame on you Channel 7

    Liked by 3 people

      1. Robbo, the Children aren’t at Brookfield School anymore. They don’t live at Brookfield anymore. Where they live now, they are going to a private School and private Schools don’t resume for another week.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Well that is good then, so why are they a school up there then? Might be a beat-up, was parked there for short period or something, and twitter went wild!

          (edit by robbo 11.02am), they tweeted me back, had permission to park A truck there, no filming no cameras etc, see commnets further down!)

          Like

          1. From what I’ve read it never actually said that Chanel 7 were at the School, just that they were at Brookfield and people started putting in ‘School’. My guess is that they are at the house where the B_C family lived. The Children now live in Ipswich.

            Like

            1. Nope, their truck is at a school. One has to question why? This is their answer as to why they are at the “children’s school”. So their answer is specifically about the children’s school.

              Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers 2h
              @bittersweet_qld we are not filming at school – wouldn’t consider it. We had principal’s permission to park our link truck there.No cameras

              Liked by 1 person

              1. I am getting the feeling that C7 are actually at Brookfield, there is a general store there near the school as well. Hopefully the girls don’t go there anymore. And hopefully C7 don’t actually know where they really attend school.

                Liked by 1 person

              2. well jessy, I was answering your statement “private Schools don’t resume for another week.” because Mount Maria Catholic College certainly has resumed TODAY!

                Like

    1. All RUMOUR, The Children aren’t at Brookfield School anymore. They don’t live at Brookfield anymore. Where they live now, they are going to a private School and private Schools don’t resume for another week

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Yes that’s right, they live with Alison’s parents and attend a private school in the area the Dickie’s live in.

        Like

      2. All private schools that I know of are back today, Jessy. Mum, dad and bro all private school teachers in bris and all back to work today. I’m sure Ch7 wouldn’t be that stupid… Surely?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. I have replied to your post LJC, ithe reply is somewhere down the page 🙂
          IGG School resumes for Term 3 21st July. 🙂
          are you at Court today ?

          Like

            1. I’m with you there LJC. I have some time this afternoon and tomorrow, was thinking of going in, but the longer it goes on, the worse I’m feeling about this. Is GR in there today?

              If we go through to tomorrow, are you contemplating going in LJC?

              Like

            2. I think the big question here should be, why did the principal of the school, that the kids allegedly attend, think it was ok for C7 to prop themselves there? So much for protecting the children. There is no reason for C7 to be anywhere near the kids’ school anyway. None. If they can’t use cameras then there is even less reason. That principal has something to answer for IMO.

              Liked by 2 people

  13. The Jury started at 9am this morning. I was hoping for a verdict by 10am 😦
    It must be terrible for Mr and Mrs Dickie and family not knowing the fate of those little girls. I would hate to think if the Jury find GBC not guilty, then those little girls are returned to the B-C family 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Here’s what you get paid for Victoria and QLD when doing jury Duty.

    Victoria

    Jurors are paid $40 a day, or $200 a week, for the first six days and $80 a day, or $400 a week, from day seven.

    Victorians who are in full-time, part-time and casual (over 12 months) employment will get their normal earnings with employers to make up the difference between jury duty payments and their wage. Nice.

    Queensland

    Jurors receive $113 a day, or $565 a week, up to 19 days. From day 20 onwards, jurors receive $150.75 a day, or $753.75 a week.

    Public transport costs will be covered by the court and you will get a meal allowance if you break for lunch.

    Queensland employers have to make up the difference in pay for the whole period of jury service.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Jeez…you wouldn’t be trying to run a very tight Small Business and pay for someone who’s not there.

      Govt should pay the lot…..and the cost of finding a replacement.

      Liked by 1 person

  15. That poll I have running, here are the stats as they are now
    After midday on Mon 14/7 41.94%

    After Midday Tue on 15/7 15.05%

    Before Midday on Tue 15/7 14.52%

    Hung Jury anytime 8.06%

    Before Midday on Mon 14/7 7.53%

    After Midday on Wed 16/7 4.3%

    After Midday on Thu 17/7 2.69%

    other options even less

    Like

    1. Robbo’s been moderating bits of nested comments again, Jessy.

      Once you disturb the eggs in the nest, it is never the same again. It’s the same with lots of birds – when little boys disturb the eggs, mother flies away.

      He would have to destroy the whole nest (nested comments) or leave the blooming thing alone.

      Like

      1. You are right MM but not on this thread, it was the weekend thread 19.5 and very necessary unfortunately. The only other way is removing all a comment minus say (deleted by rob). Then the time stamps would stay in order I guess. Food for thought.

        With the new rule at the top of this thread (Day 20) Im thinking I may not have to much anymore so sorry about that guys……Cheers

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Yes Robbo – that’s the only way or else be like mum and clip everyone’s ear. LOL.
          Unless of course you want to be at the keyboard 24/7 and grab them before someone replies – yeah right…
          .
          Best thing the rest of us can do to help you with this, is ignore every comment that is derogatory and then you can dump the bad eggs when you arrive. Very hard not to retaliate tho, I do admit.
          Cheers mate.

          Like

  16. Hope it’s all over today for the sake of Alison’s parents & the kids. They need closure to move on with raising the kids..

    I’m confident of a murder or manslaughter conviction, but you just never know with these jury’s. Only takes one idiot..

    Like

  17. I just watched the video interview of GBC and OW – channel nine – pre Allison found. Watching GBC made me sick – did at the time I first saw it at the time too. His whole body language – the tilt of the head to emulate the reporters (hers was a sympathy stance) – I am sure he read her head tilt as flirting and responded accordingly – the smile before he remembered what this was all about. Sickening – wife supposedly missing and he is putting on the charisma for a pretty woman. Dead give away of how much he cared about Allison “missing” or worse still dead. Then comes that horrible false voice. Acting is not really his forte. He reminded me of how a child puts on a voice when they are pretending to be sick to get out of something. False false false because he is false to the core. The shaking of his head as he spoke of j- subconscious because he knw what he was saying was a lie.

    At the risk of upsetting those here that think OW is right in on it, I genuinely believe that at that stage she was genuinely concerned for Allison and did not know anything. Her body language is indicative of honesty. Remember at that stage his real character had not come out – the family did not know about the affairs etc. I think she was taken in by GBC just like so many others were. The biting of the lip was because she was being careful what she said because they had been advised to be careful what they said. I think at that stage she thought it was a witch hunt against her brother and acted accordingly to protect him.

    I’d love to know what she truly thinks now though. Surely she must have had her doubts about him. I wonder if she will ever tell.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Btw, watch the clip again and at the end you catch OW giving her brother a sideways glance and at that very moment you see something did not sit right with her. If anyone else was involved it was his father. I agree not her 🙂 Now she’s just towing the family line.

        Liked by 1 person

  18. Hi LJC and those disputing when IGG School returns, just google it !!

    Term 3- all boarders are to return 20th July and Term 3 commences for all students 21st July !! which is next Monday.

    Like

  19. As the time is now 1pm, there’s unlikely to be any news until after lunch (if at all) so we can all relax now until around 2:15 if as per previous days.

    Like

  20. I keep remembering the Casey Anthony trial in Florida. Somewhat similar circumstances: missing person, body recovered after a period of time, and no cause of death determined. Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murder even though that poor child was found wrapped in plastic with duct tape around her head and a sticker over her lips.
    There is even less direct evidence in the Baden-Clay case and I suspect any jury would have a very hard time coming to a unanimous guilty verdict where no cause of death has been established.
    The only positive is that now, by his own admission, everyone knows just how much of an ass he truly is. Should he not be convicted, his life will never be the same and I would expect any insurance company to fight tooth and nail before paying out on her death.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Renee, sorry I meant to reply and hit ‘like’ instead. I respectfully disagree, IMO there is plenty of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise to link GBC to Allison’s murder, the range of battle scars he sported the next morning whilst she had another person’s DNA under a left fingernail, plus his commitments to his lover to sort out his debts and come to her a ‘free man’ by 1 July, which he clearly stated he INTENDED to keep, being just two of them….many more inconsistencies and lies picked up in his evidence.

      Like

      1. I am not sure why, but I felt a bit edgy when the girls’ school was mentioned. Not sure exactly why but I think because great lengths have been taken to protect them but I guess it is common knowledge so I should lelax.

        Gerry-get-your-rocks on, are you on the up and up?
        I was in cognito and out of touch yesterday and heard only 1 radio news late in the day and it made me nervous as I thought there was a leaning between the lines, due to Juror’s questions, of not guilty. However you guys with ya fingers on the pulse sound somewhat positive that the right result will be delivered.

        Good to read all of your thoughts.

        Like

  21. Can I ask anyone who is at Court today, has GBC’s family left or are they around? I suspect if they’ve left the jury has probably informed Court staff no verdict today. 😦

    Like

  22. What access does the jury have to support from people who speak legalese? I assume they won’t just shove them into a room with piles of testimony and other documents, and expect them not to have any questions or need clarifications. Does the judge supply such or is there a dedicated team to assist them through the process of deliberation?

    Like

  23. Yes, just worked out that the posts are all over the place hence my question re: where’s everyone gone. It appeared there were no posts between 11.59 & 1.05pm but they are towards the top of the page.

    Like

  24. “TimArvier @TimArvier9 · 3h Court watchers now knitting outside court 11 while waiting for a verdict #badenclay”
    “Matthew Scott @brissyboy79 · 3h @alisonsandy Jury in Baden-Clay case either deliberating every single little detail or they just can’t get enough of the court’s catering.”

    Like

  25. Robbo,when I try to contact you it’s not working it comes up make a donation (which I did in yen beginning)
    How can I get in tough without that popping up?

    Like

  26. Who’s got the job of honing the guillotine? Bargar I’ve dropped a stitch. Knit two, purl one.

    Come back tomorrow arvo around 4pm and I might have a scarf long enough for him to hang himself. Shall thread it through the bars.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Me either, aga. I just have to keep reminding myself that we know things the jury doesn’t and it may be taking them longer to sift through the rubbish. I really hope that someone in the jury room is in firm control of the whiteboard pen and is creating a visual mind map for those who can’t see the bigger picture.

      Liked by 1 person

  27. If manslaughter wasn’t on the table, do you think we’d have a verdict by now? The longer this is going on, the more worried I’m becoming.

    And there is some lunatic on twitter, Elle someone, who is say it’s obvious that Allison was depressed and killed herself and that she had a dark life obviously, because psychologists and keeping a journal = a very suicidal person. I swear to god it’s taking all my strength not to unleash a tirade.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hi LJC, I’ve been thinking the same thing re manslaughter. I think by the Judge giving murder / manslaughter it may have confused the Jury. I’m not feeling confident at the moment as the Jury are taking so long to give a verdict.

      Like

      1. Feeling exactly the same, guys. It’s like there’s a rock in the pit of my stomach… I just want this over for her poor family and kids so much. But unfortunately the jury can’t take that into account… I’ve thought it over a million times… From the evidence presented in court, it should be an easy decision. But apparently not.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I think the judge has influenced he jury by introducing the word manslaughter. Now they are doubting their initial gut feelings.

        Like

      1. There’s thick and then there’s this girl, terbuttj52. I was so deeply offended by what she wrote that I nearly said several (very) unretractable things… Mostly related to her parents needing retrospective contraception.

        Liked by 2 people

          1. I’ve just pieced it all together. This is what the eff-wit wrote on Twitter… Makes me sick toy stomach that people as deluded and clearly moronic as this breathe our precious air:

            excuse me? That is quite sad that you are so hell bent on hating Gerard that you accuse the public of being paid if we don’t Agree with you! You cannot be serious and expect what you just wrote to somehow make sudden sense? In MY opinion she suicided because she had depression and has lead a dark life for many years. You Cannot say that because she was a mother she wouldn’t kill herself? That’s thoughtless. she had as much reason (if not more) to suicide than him to kill her. But your too closed minded to even see the evidence relating to suicide. She had psychological problems (who keeps a journal continuing going over the past). Hate me but she suicided.

            Then this:

            that’s mindless to think a Guilty verdict will help find peace – unless they are very bitter people, the dickies

            Then this:

            if your keeping journals and seeing psychologists – then, Something is NOT right with her. so I highly doubt it’s news to famiky/friend. #sorry #not sorry hon

            Like

            1. Well she clearly is not a very intelligent or educated person. She can hardly string a coherent sentence together or spell correctly. World is full of idiots like this!! Your retrospective contraception ideas seems valid!! 😉 She probably wouldn’t even know what that means let alone be capable of pronouncing it! *Insert head slap and sigh here!

              Like

            2. Did this silly person think Allison walked 14kms to do away with herself.If I had to walk that distance, I would be to tide to do anything but sleep.

              Like

              1. Maybe she thinks that’s what Allison did. Walked 14km then had a nice nap under the bridge in the mud and spontaneously died. I’m sorry, I just can’t believe people like this girl have made it to the age of 24 unscathed.

                Liked by 1 person

      1. Manslaughter always would and should be an alternative in these cases where there is likely an unlawful killing and intent is unclear.
        In my view it would be a traverse if jurors could not find intent BRD and the
        Defendant was found not guilty.

        Like

        1. GBC alias Bruce Overland has been extremely clear with his intent – pay his debts and go to his lover a free man by 1 July. You can not get a much clearer statement than this. And as he told her he gave her a commitment and he INTENDS to stick to it, he even used the very word INTENT. He did stick to it, by taking the only action that would enable him in such a short time to accomplish both these aims.

          Crystal clear. One must just not fall the lie he told in court to save his a%$# about him not caring about Toni and supposedly just told her stuff to passify her. This is a lie. He could not stay away form her, he wanted her – maybe not forever, but for the immediate future. Bruce Overland’s commitment was for real. He had no reason to lie, this communication was never supposed to be uncovered. As ar as he was concerned it was made in top secrecy. IT WAS TRUE!

          Liked by 1 person

  28. I’m really not sure how everyone here has already decided he’s guilty. There’s no direct evidence. Think about it for a second. He might not have done it.

    Like

    1. Absolutely open to your ideas, Sceptical… Can you tell us why you think he might not be guilty and who else you think might have done it? Just because we have our views doesn’t mean they’re correct… If there is another explanation, we are all ears!!

      Liked by 1 person

    2. He may not be guilty but think of how many “coincidences” all happened in a small time-frame. The mistress pushing, him giving her a date by which he would be free, Allison’s insurance policy ready to be cancelled, scratches on his face that look nothing like shaving cuts, other body injuries on him, so many plant species in her hair that are found on her own property (did she roll around in her backyard and ensure she rubbed her head back and forth), her blood in the car, the op shop stuff that was in the carport waiting for pickup is suddenly also in the same car as the blood, noises hear by neighbours, police called before enough time has lapsed, the texts to her that sounded loving when he was totally detached emotionally from her. And on and on it goes….

      Liked by 1 person

    3. Sceptical. We have read and in some cases listened to all the evidence. Circumstantial evidence is just as good as direct evidence and in some cases it is better given that eye witnesses can be wrong in what they think they saw or heard – not to mention they can also lie. Gather all the evidence together and remember each individual piece may of itself prove guilt but when added together and looked at as a whole it can prove to be a very strong case. I personally can not come up with any alternative rational explanation for Allison’s death other than he killed her. I arrived at that conclusion after considering the following.

      1. He had a mistress on the side (Toni). He lied to his wife about that and led her to believe he was committed to her (Allison). He did that most likely because he did not want her to find out and thus leave him because as he had already stated to Toni earlier he could not afford a divorce.
      2. At the same time Toni and GBC were emailing, phoning and texting each other and it from the DIRECT EVIDENCE of these emails we know GBC stated his love for Toni, stated his commitment to Toni and stated his intention to be free to come to her unconditionally by July 1, 2012. Think about that last sentence – what does it mean given his previous statements to Toni that he had nothing to offer her because the business was crippled by debt and he wanted to get all that sorted before he left Allison.
      3. In the weeks before Allison’s death GBC was trying desperately to find funds that he could use to pay what was due by June 30 2012 – if not paid he would lose (ownership would revert to those who he owed for it) much of the rent roll of the business – the biggest and most stable money maker of a real estate business. Direct evidence was given about him crying on the phone to a local MP associate about going broke if he could not get the money. He could not borrow from the bank as he had insufficient assets to secure a loan. He could not borrow any more from his friends – nor could he borrow for family, his franchise head – all people he owed about a million dollars to. After this he made many inquiries into the life insurance policies both he and Allison had. Allison had a policy that had an overdue payment and the insurer had sent them notice a week or so earlier that they had granted a grace period but the policy would lapse early July (I believe) Allison’s death before that poilcy lapsed would mean GBC would realise over $960,000.00 from that policy and others. They had no money to pay the overdue premium. GBC stated to police (recorded and submitted) on the day he reported Allison missing that they were in dire financial circumstances. Then there is the evidence from that MP that he himself spoke to GBC later after his associate did and GBC seemed less concerned about raising the money to pay the debt due 30 June 2012. This coincides with his telling Toni he would sort out his financial situation and come to her by July 1.
      4. I personally do not believe he had plans to kill Allison that night – I believe he had it planned for later (say an accident during their annual camping holiday in June – but that is just conjecture) However on the 19th April he spent 30 minutes on the phone with Toni who was going ballistic and demanding he tell Allison that they were going to be at the same conference the next day. This presented a problem for GBC because the last time the two women had run into each other he got hit with angry text messages from both of them. But the big problem was the risk of Allison finding out that the affair was still on – risk Toni would even show Allison the emails received from GBC. He could not tell Allison that Toni was going to the conference because she’d ask how he knew this.
        5.So Allison disappears that night – we now know she was killed around that night (time of death evidence) and her body was found 11 days later UNDER the bridge. So GBC claims nothing out of the ordinary happened that night but the next morning he has scratches on his face, neck and chest that his explanation for is weak and unlikely at most – Cut himself shaving. There is blood in Alison’s car yet no one saw any injury to Allison and the place where it was found was an unlikely place for Allison to have been. GBC uses Allison’s car to go “search” for her that morning when his was more conveniently located. There are toys in the back of the car which the girls can not remember seeing in there but can remember seeing them sitting outside the garage waiting to be collected by a charity. The girls put their school bags in the back of the car and had been taken to school in that car on the 19th. Allison had DNA from someone other than herself under her fingernails although it could not be used for test to identify whose it was. She did not have enough drugs in her system to indicate that is how she died. No drugs were found in her stomach. So it is unlikely she died from overdose. She had no broken bones and where her body was found it was unlikely she fell or was pushed from the bridge. She still had her jewellery on and was not sexually assaulted which rules out robbery or sex attack by an unknow person. Plant material found in her hair – all six species were found growing at her home. Only two were found growing in the area around the creek. Experts testified it was highly unlikely her body was in the water at any time. There was no evidence of drowning. Her body was found in the same position it would have been from just hours after her death – (autopsy report)
        6.GBC has shown what a liar he is. GBC concedes he has been in the past prepared to say whatever it took to get himself out of a bad situation. We can not believe a word he says.
        Need I go on with anything else that makes me and a lot of the other people her believe beyond reasonable doubt that GBC killed Allison and he did so intentionally.

      Sorry Robbo this is so long

      Liked by 2 people

        1. Wish I could go back and edit – in the beginning I meant to say about the circumstantial evidence that “each individual piece may NOT of itself prove guilt”

          Like

    4. Always happy to be challenged Sceptical! 🙂 I was born a sceptic(and a synic) and after being in court and hearing the defence’s summation i may have felt they had a raised a ‘few’ valid points. After genuinely trying to piece together other explanations surrounding those points i still ended up coming back to the fact that so many things did not add up. Also factoring in the key words of ‘reasonable’ and ‘rational’ in relation to inferences being drawn from the large amount of circumstantial evidence against him i feel confident that he caused her death.
      Did you have any particular theories sceptical that can explain everything? I would be keen to hear 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  29. I’m sure the bailiff would be overseeing things in the room. If it looked like they were stalling on no particular point in order to delay unnecessarily he would advise the judge. I’m sure there’s either one person they are trying to convince and therefore going over all the evidence. I’d rather a hung jury and a chance at a retrial than they find him not guilty or manslaughter….

    Like

    1. I’m thinking hey, pedo Rolf Harris jury took 8 long days and was found guilty.The end result is what we want.Probably better they don’t take only 6 hours like a lot of us thought.. because now any appeal cannot say they didn’t give it due consideration.

      Liked by 1 person

  30. So, are they all sitting around in a room somewhere asking, “can we get more pizza?” ???
    I mean, from what I know and have read, it’s a no brainer. So why the delay?
    I don’t get it. They’ve been living with this evidence for weeks…
    I feel for Allison’s parents right now.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. When people hear the word Manslaughter, they think, Accidently killed, manslaughter does not always mean that, their is Voluntary Manslaughter and Involuntary Manslaughter and a few others, I’ll give you a example of one type of Voluntary Manslaughter, A man comes home and see’s his wife in bed with another man, he goes into a jealous rage and kills both of them, since it wasn’t premeditated and he did it in the heat of the moment, that’s not considered murder, so the jury might think that GBC went into a rage about something and then killed Allison, it wasn’t premeditated, then if the jury think that, he will get the manslaughter verdict, but we all know that’s not true about GBC, it was clearly premeditated.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thanks Crime Researcher, you raise good points 🙂 Yep, he flew into a rage, killed her, but managed to calm himself and meticulously hide any form of struggle and transport the body 14 km’s away in the middle of the night with children sleeping… only to wake up and get ready for work. I can’t help but ask myself how could manslaughter come into play here?? The extent to which this man has worked the media, friends, loved ones, family, turning up at her funeral ‘acting distraught’… is nothing short of disgraceful. How could any one of the jurors not take all that into account? Of course he was in a rage, but that doesn’t mean it was without intent. Boy, I wish I was in that room with the jurors 🙂

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Further, I agree with myself 🙂 … I guess my point is, when you carry something out like that in real life… you’ve already thought about it and played it out in your mind. That’s the ‘aha moment’ the jury have to reach for a murder conviction.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. MsMolly, if I was the head juror, I would say to the rest of them, Gerard Baden Clay is Guilty of murder and that’s a fact based on circumstantial evidence.

          Liked by 3 people

          1. Ok, well let’s hope that’s exactly what the head juror has done Crime Researcher 🙂 I’ve already ‘foreseen’ Olivia’s speech following the guilty verdict… claiming to the cameras that ‘an innocent man has been convicted on this day’… so let’s hope I’m right about that and it plays out. And I don’t say that in a nasty way, it’s just something I’ve ‘seen’, so I hope I’m right and it’s not just wishful thinking with regards to the verdict. And in saying that, I don’t wish bad on his family, I don’t even wish bad on him… I don’t believe in that. The universe catches up on everyone, no one gets away with anything …. eventually. It doesn’t stop me wishing for justice while we’re all here though.

            Like

      2. I would have given a lot to be have been on this jury MsMolly (not likely as I’m not in Qld!) and would pay a lot now to hear what’s going on!

        Like

        1. Yes Jaykay, although if I WAS there, I think I’d be tempted to use some kind of physical force as well as colourful coercive language for those still undecided. So, it’s probably best I’m not 🙂

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  32. My replys are going all over the place,Top,Bottom<Middle. Please everybody dont get offended if my replys are in the wrong place.If it wasnt so serious a subject, it would be funny.

    Like

  33. Oh dear, at least one is a bit slow! Now they are having more explanation about circumstantial evidence. At least we can hope this is the breakthrough…

    Like

    1. I think and hope you’re right Robbo, going over the circumstantial bit was hopefully the last of it to clarify GUILTY is the right verdict! And they can finish it today 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  34. In my experience…..we argued for 4 days because we were split between guilty and not guilty and getting nowhere. We were then given an option of manslaughter and we all agreed and soon after handed down guilty of manslaughter. The fact that manslaughter is already on the table and they are still deliberating I feel there must be strong beliefs of murder and the longer it goes murder will prevail.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. It just means that his guilt has to be the only rational explanation for the circumstantial evidence. Which is why defence made up so much baloney in attempt to create other “rational” possibilities.

      Like

        1. Exactly BSD70. Which is why in this case, the only rational explanation is murder (in my mind) because of the multiple lies and contradictions on the stand, and his admission that he has said whatever he needed to, to serve his own interests (this was in relation to TMcH), and the fact that the defence was he didn’t know what happened, but then suggested she had suicided – after telling cops (on the day) she would not have suicided. The only rational explanation is that GBC had lied about what happened. Without his lies a story is clear.

          Liked by 1 person

  35. The Thinker on July 14, 2014 at 4:04 pm said:
    In my experience…..we argued for 4 days because we were split between guilty and not guilty and getting nowhere. We were then given an option of manslaughter and we all agreed and soon after handed down guilty of manslaughter. The fact that manslaughter is already on the table and they are still deliberating I feel there must be strong beliefs of murder and the longer it goes murder will prevail.

    Like

    Reply ↓

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I agree with you The Thinker, If GBC get’s the Guilty Of Murder Verdict, I’m going to have a big party to celebrate the verdict!

      Like

  36. So they’ve just had a re-read of the judge’s instructions on circumstantial evidence. Really feeling for the jurors right now. Seems like they’re wading through every aspect of the law, doing their due diligence, no doubt all too aware of the tension building around a verdict and what’s at stake. Must be a pressure cooker in there.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. I think the jury have made up their minds, their secretly lingering so they will get more money, but the judge will probably find out. If GBC gets the Guilty Of Murder Verdict, his life will be gone from that moment on, and as he becomes a Geriatric he will just rot in jail.

    Like

  38. I think Robbo is right ; jury is double checking on the circumstantial definition part before they have their verdict.
    I now have a stronger feeling of ‘Guilty’ over MS if they’re re-checking definition. I was very worried after juror browsing internet and length of time it’s taking. But I see/feel a warmer light shining all of a sudden.
    Fingers/legs crossed praying throwing salt over my shoulder you name it.
    Channeling ‘Guilty’ verdict as I play ‘Seminole Wind’ on the piano.

    Liked by 3 people

  39. I’m so happy with what the Jusge just said about guilt being the only rational inference.

    To me, this says the Judge is saying to the Jury: If he had nothing to hide, there wouldn’t have been all the lies said on the Stand (plus all the others but I’m going on what the jury must base this on.

    I reckon the jurors who are possibly holding out for Manslaughter just might need this to push them to go for Murder.

    While they’ve now been sent home, hopefully a new day will give them clarity they need.

    Bottle of purely medicinal wine stays in the fridge for another night 😊

    Liked by 2 people

  40. I’ve probably spent over 100-200 hours reading about this case in the last 2 years. I’ve read news reports, the court affidavits from all the witnesses. The jurors have only been at it 18 hours. I think they have a huge responsibility and job, they need to be thorough and meticulous. The longer it takes the more they are taking their job seriously IMO.

    We’ll done jury.

    Liked by 3 people

      1. Donna I think INTENT is clear, in GBC’s own words.

        GBC alias Bruce Overland has been extremely clear with his aim – to pay his debts and go to his lover a free man by 1 July. You can not get a much clearer statement than this. And as he told her he gave her a commitment and he INTENDS to stick to it, he even used the very word INTENT. He did stick to it, by taking the only action that would enable him in such a short time to accomplish both these aims. can you think of any other scenario for him to achieve this aim? No – it is the only rational one.

        Crystal clear. One must just not fall the lie he told in court to save his a%$# about him not caring about Toni and supposedly just told her stuff to passify her. This is a lie. He could not stay away from her, he wanted her – maybe not forever, but for the immediate future. Bruce Overland’s commitment was for real. He had no reason to lie, this communication was never supposed to be uncovered. As far as he was concerned it was made in top secrecy. IT WAS TRUE!

        Like

    1. I think so too Pinkshoes. I thing it has come down to what he is guilty of not whether he is not guilty. I think they are deliberating about which charge he should be guilty of as opposed to being not guilty for either.

      Like

  41. Actually, let’s not rush the jury, the longer they take could mean that they look at the evidence more closely and that they are more likely to give him the Guilty Of Murder Verdict, if it’s any other verdict it’s infinitely incorrect.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Getting confused TCR
      Within a short space of time you say the jury is secretly lingering, then idiotic and now supporting the delay.
      Without being disrespectful and certainly not bullying, if you are 13 yrs old, perhaps stop think read and acknowledge that even if you are very bright, there is a lot of life experience to be gained.
      I am also a bit alarmed by a 13 yr old publishing posts saying anyone should rot in hell and similar.
      My thoughts – well intentioned and wish them to be taken so.
      IMHO this is an adult site for
      Good reason

      Liked by 3 people

  42. The latest ….and it seems more in Laymans terms, but I’ve only seen an abbreviated Tweet, of the Judges advice is interesting.

    The Jury has to believe it’s the ONLY rational conclusion.

    Crown argued…..He just decided to do it and he did. (Readers Digest condensed version)
    Defence argued….He didn’t.

    BUT……through his manner, fibs and assorted hijinx, there’s some reasonable argument that it was a massive blow-up….and then a bit (or lot) of covering tracks.

    I think that’s what the Jury can’t rule out….even though he’s denying it and saying that they were happy families…..which is obviously a crock.

    Which brings us back to the Crowns case being the ONLY rational conclusion?….big call.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The important bits (read bottom first)….

      David Murray @TheMurrayD
      … it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances #badenclay
      ReplyRetweetFavorite
      15m
      David Murray @TheMurrayD
      …guilt should not only be a rational inference … #badenclay

      Liked by 1 person

    2. BR, GBC alias Bruce Overland has been extremely clear with his INTENT – to pay his debts and go to his lover a free man by 1 July. You can not get a much clearer statement than this. And as he told her he gave her a commitment and he INTENDS to stick to it, he even used the very word INTENT. He did stick to it, by taking the only action that would enable him in such a short time to accomplish both these aims. can you think of any other scenario for him to achieve this aim? No – it is the only rational one.

      Crystal clear. One must just not fall the lie he told in court to save his a%$# about him not caring about Toni and supposedly just told her stuff to passify her. This is a lie. He could not stay away from her, he wanted her – maybe not forever, but for the immediate future. Bruce Overland’s commitment was for real. He had no reason to lie, this communication was never supposed to be uncovered. As far as he was concerned it was made in top secrecy. IT WAS TRUE, and he took action to enact it – as evidenced by the range of battle scars he sported the next day.

      Sudden violence after years of passivity and not even raising their voices to each other in spite of massive disagreements and relationship issues, points even stronger to murder IMO.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Thanks RIP Allison

        Certainly, that’s one way to look at it.

        Is there ANY rational inference that he wasn’t going to go to Toni? (he’d been doing it a while….she said so under oath) He treated Toni just marginally better than he treated Allison…..and only for 10 minutes at a time before he was sniffing around elsewhere.

        Is there ANY rational inference that he wasn’t in immediate and dire financial strife?……His financiers didn’t think so and said such under oath. GBC claimed that he had an ‘extension’ to pay, which went through unchallenged. His Financiers had a plan and were happy how it was going….under oath.

        The ‘Bruce Overland’ email account ….top secret? He said he used it to ‘spy’ on his competitors (and obviously hide other stuff from his wife)….unchallenged.

        Courts and Police have always viewed ‘no history of violence’ as exactly that.

        So…..ABSOLUTELY no rational inference of these things?

        Like

        1. If he gets off on sh*tty technicalities like that, I’ll be so peeved. He did it, the world knows he did it, he knows he did it. When viewed as a whole, I don’t see any other likely outcome. Emotional (not intellectual) rant over. Sorry everyone, the tension is getting to me too!

          Like

          1. Hello LJC…..hope your brain’s not hurting.

            ‘Technicalities’ has always been the go to word when decisions don’t go as hoped.

            But (who coulda seen that coming !) it’s not a ‘Technicality’, it’s just a decision that’s been made based on the evidence put before them.

            Actually I’m a bit stumped what a ‘technicality’ would be? Probly sumfin like poorly worded Legislation?

            Like

            1. In my eyes, a technicality is a glitch in the system and I can’t say here what I think the glitch is. Lol. I’m just tired of crazy people running the world. They terrify me. And they’re like Teflon. Nothing sticks to them.

              Like

        2. Thanks BR, obviously there are many angles from which to look.We’ll find out eventually which the jury chose.

          Personally I think the two things that GBC wanted very much were money (he needed lots of it) and his freedom from the marriage (without the problems and liabilities associated with divorce). Only murder joins ALL the dots – from GBC private self stated INTENT (as Bruce Overland) to settle his debt and go to Toni, to the sudden violence and death inflicted upon Allison, a range of wounds on GBC from the life and death fight that ensued, his bizarre behaviour afterwards, many lies and contradictions, and a host of other circumstantial evidence and and cunning cover-ups. It’s about linking the chain. Murder joins all these dots IMO.

          Allison would have no reason to hide her own phone, chip her own tooth, pour her own blood in the back of her car, put toys in it to cover it, put a Zoloft packet on her dashboard, change from her PJs to walking clothes, roll around on her back porch, walk 13km to Kholo bridge with a Harry Potter invisibility cloak on and jump to under the bridge to die. Not remotely possible. Joins no dots.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. True RIP Allison

            But everything in your last paragraph happened (in your theory) post death.

            Murder has to have the INTENT leading up to the death. Which you can certainly argue your way, but could be argued in other ways.

            Which brings us back to Justice BYRNES directions that the circumstantial evidence must be the ONLY rational inference.

            I think he’s made it harder for them.

            Like

            1. I can’t see it being any clearer than GBC himself having stated his INTENTION leading up to Allison’s death in private conversation with his lover to stick with the commitment he gave her – that of settling his debts and coming to her a free man by July 1, merely a few weeks away. There is only one scenario through which he could achieve that – Allison’s death. And he was involved in that happening as the injuries he sported clearly indicated. So it looks like the only rational explanation to me that joins every single puzzle piece in this drama into one cohesive rational picture.

              Please sketch what you see as the alternative ‘rational’ explanation.

              Like

              1. Hi RIP Allison
                I think there was a separation of related events.

                Event 1 – All of the lies and fibs he told Toni over a long time…….which she acknowledged as just being his M.O.

                Event 2 – The significant marriage difficulties that were building to a crescendo. If we can believe what most people here think…..he was just rolling along to the ‘GBC Standard Operating Procedures’. Allison was the one who was changeing, getting stronger, more forthright etc.

                Sure, there was other ‘stuff’ happening which he’s explained away…..mostly unchallenged,….. but does it get past the line for the ONLY rational inference test that he intended to kill her?

                I’m sure there’s people on the Jury that know about normal and not so normal stresses in marriage and their experiences are going to colour their thinking. They probably aren’t thinking of Allison so much (in relation to the home life), but their own experiences with people they’ve lived with or people they know and then apply that thinking to the B-C household.

                So, for me…..massive blow-up…..drastic result…..which isn’t Murder.

                Like

        3. BR – but did his ex business partners give extension? I am of the belief they wanted their share of the company paid out by 1st July. I’m not sure if this was given as evidence though 😦 I’m fairly sure it was in Jocelyn Frost’s statement. Best I go check :/

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          1. Hi Millie

            If you read Jocelyn Frosts statement she didn’t know what she paid or how much was owed to her…..she more or less just knew it was something.

            Typical great Salesperson……..absolutely horrible with figures.

            Like

            1. How was there all this money just flying around the place and nobody knew? Is that a sign of people with too much money? I don’t know but I just can’t imagine not knowing what was owing to me or what I owed someone…

              Like

              1. Mornin’ Ralph
                It’s why Salespeople are Salespeople and Accountants are Accountants.

                Then you’ve got people like GBC trying to be a Salesman and an Accountant until the others stepped in and convinced him to concentrate on the Accounts.

                As a Salesman/Accountant his brain would have been trying to do a triple reverse double spin with a pike in the forward position……..and winding up doing a belly flop.

                Jocelyn Frost’s statement just highlights it……although she looks like she didn’t attempt to do anything related to accounts. Hers included.

                Like

  43. A question for you Robbo, do you think that GBC has a moderate chance of getting the Guilty Of Manslaughter Verdict?

    Like

  44. Just getting back to the evidence for a moment……I keep thinking about her phone and the fact it went missing, just another coincidence????? There a too many unanswered questions. In my mind it is another aspect of his plan and it emitting signals of being nowhere near where her body was found, to me is another pointer to his evil deed.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Agreed, Thinker. And the fact is, if she was suicidal, she would have either taken it with her or (more likely) left it at home as it would have been the last thing on her mind. But it being triangulated to where it was is too much coincidence if you ask me… And not at all fitting with the Defence’s theory / crappy explanation.

      Like

      1. Too much circumstantial and other evidence that it was a planned murder. The only common denominator that links all the dots IMO.

        Like

        1. I agree (sort of)

          But the Judge has now said there can’t be ANY OTHER rational inference. Not ‘beyond’ or 90/10….99/1 although I’m sure others will debate that, but that is now what he’s told them.

          Like

          1. IMO MURDER is the only rational explanation. If he killed her but purely accidentally and he did not need or want Allison’s insurance money and did not care a hoot about Toni:
            • He would have behaved very differently.
            • He would have been genuinely sad and sorry (displayed none of this – in fact looked quite chuffed with himself). Business as usual. Not even a eulogy. Went on holiday while die Dickies arranged her funeral. He could not care less!
            • He would not have continued to contact Toni as Bruce Overland, phone her from public telephone booths, secretly meet and bed her. This shows where his loyalty really lay.
            • He would not try and claim Allison’s insurance even before she was formally identified (in keeping with him needing the $$ before 30 June to settle several large due debts, as per his commitment to Toni.)

            Liked by 1 person

            1. I don’t think he killed her ‘purely by accident’ and (if he did it of course) neither would he.

              Most of these types of deaths aren’t ‘accidental’, just not planned. All still ‘Unlawful Killing’ and will result in a conviction and jail time.

              I think with him, his behaviour wouldn’t have been significantly different if it was planned or unplanned. He obviously didn’t have many feelings for her at that time.

              Like

    1. And the lies to cover the lies! Let’s not forget his stellar performance on the stand. At the end of it all I was thinking “alright! I’ll buy whatever you’re selling… Just please don’t make me sit through anymore of this drivel” lol

      Liked by 1 person

  45. I was just reading Bella’s comment from this morning where she mentions, that some jurors might be liking the $700 a day !!! As much as I hate to say it, it could be very well true , given the society we live in. Some of my fellow jurors certainly had no regard for why they were there and there life style habits were much more important to them. It certainly changed my view of the general public. I can only hope no such jurors are on this panel deciding such an important outcome.

    Like

  46. Hi everyone, I am disappointed in the jury. They are fiddling and diddling — makes me wonder if someone has been in one or more of their ears!!! I feel so sad for her parents and little girls. What they must be going through is beyond belief. I read somewhere the LNP and the Masons are involved and could be pulling a few strings. If this is the case — well I don’t hold out much hope for a guilty. I have lost the faith!!! I shudder to think of him out and having custody of his children (having killed their mother). Guilty please please. Am going now to cook dinner. Roast lamb :):)

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I’m sure the LNP and the Masons had nothing to do with Allisons death.I dont know why the poor old Masons always seem to pop-up when things arnt quit clear. My Dad was in the Free Masons and you couldnt get more a straight down the middle bloke if you tried.

      Like

    2. I also read somewhere Louie that the Judge was the one that sat for Dr Death, (Patelle) Enough said. We know he was found Not Guilty.

      Like

      1. Wrong terbuttj.

        Patel was convicted and did jail time.

        He was released on a successful Appeal and the DPP has chosen not to pursue it.

        Like

          1. Convicted in the first Trial (Judge Byrne) and got 7 years (I think)
            Did about 2 years.
            Appealed to the High Court and had convictions quashed.
            Re-tried for 1 Manslaughter and found Not Guilty by Jury (Judge Freyberg)
            In a deal with DPP copped a False Pretence charge (his employment) and they dropped remaining charges that had convictions quashed by the High Crt.

            Like

  47. Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 6m

    I’m going to tweet the entire passage the judge read to the jury regarding circumstantial evidence, so stand by. #badenclay

    Judge: As no one claims to have seen the accused kill his wife, this is a circumstantial case. #badenclay

    Judge: Circumstantial evidence is evidence of circumstances that can be relied upon not as proving a fact directly… #badenclay

    ..but instead as pointing to its existence. #badenclay

    Judge: It differs from direct evidence which tends to prove a fact directly. #badenclay

    Judge: Typically when a witness testifies about something which that witness saw or heard. #badenclay

    Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. It is not necessary for the facts to be proved by direct evidence. #badenclay

    They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone or by a combination or direct and circumstantial. #badenclay

    That is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts. #badenclay

    So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence. #badenclay

    Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty, based entirely or substantially on circumstantial evidence… #badenclay

    guilt should not only be a rational inference, it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances. #badenclay

    If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the accused not guilty. #badenclay

    This follows from the requirement that guilt must be established beyond reasonable doubt. #badenclay

    … And that’s it. That was the full passage read by Justice John Byrne to the jury this afternoon. #badenclay

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence….”

      There is NO reasonable possibility consistent with innocence for GBC. No one else wanted or needed Allison out of the picture. Not one person (including the BC family and the people GBC owed money to) got on the Stand and said that Allison was an all-round nasty person – all they could pick on her for was her depression. And it was exaggerated at that, seeing that was the only straw the Defence could grasp onto.

      Nor did anyone come forward with a suggestion of who else may want Allison deceased.

      No one else stood to gain from her death except GBC.

      Todd Fuller is still Number 1 Hero (better looking, too! Lol), but I’m liking this Judge 😊

      Liked by 2 people

        1. The fact remains that GBC had a huge motive! People have been murdered for much less than a possible $1,000,000 life insurance claim.

          Say hypothetically he was a billionaire who was always faithful to his wife, that would be an entirely different story. However, the scratches, foliage and blood in the car would be enough circumstantial evidence for unlawful killing.

          Also, say hypothetically the jury’s verdict is unlawful killing. There is still enough circumstantial evidence that he had been physically violent and has a history of emotional and psychological abuse. Surely that would add a few more years to a manslaughter sentence.

          In addition to this, say hypothetically she had survived the physical abuse and had the physical evidence to prove this to everyone including his mistress the very next day. In his twisted, narcissistic mind he would probably have considered the slim chance of getting away with murder rather than being exposed as a physically abusive husband. Considering his delusions of grandeur that he is a pillar of the community who donates to charity on a regular basis – he had a whole heap of toys in the boot of the car the day the police inspected it. The fact that it was a feeble attempt to conceal a blood stain in his mind was obviously never going to be discovered. Did anyone else find this absolutely ridiculous?!?

          Like

      1. Justice Byrne’s address regarding circumstantial evidence being sufficient for a guilty verdict speaks volumes.

        I also loved the way he rolled his eyes and turned his chair away from facing GBC on the stand. He is awesome!

        Liked by 1 person

  48. As impatient as we all are I think we need to cut the jury some slack. They are not the enemy here – in fact they’re our only bridge to justice. We have no idea what mix of personalities they’re contending with. If they’re attempting to discuss even a twelfth of the issues we’ve debated on this site in the past 5 weeks then they’ll need a lot more than 20 hours to conclude. If their favoured route to a consensus is to wade through every witness/item of evidence then so be it. If they choose to deliberate intensively and break early so be it. Given the importance of the outcome and the length of the trial to date I’m glad they’re treating the process with gravity. This is our justice system in action, after all.

    Liked by 3 people

  49. Good Evening!

    Well, in my opinion, we are very close to a verdict, think it will come tomorrow. Very confident it will be unanimous to murder, based on the jury asking further questions this arvo re circumstantial evidence and how you can use it to convict someone. Finally the light might have been turned on!

    As the hours tick by,I think it’s more favorable for a murder conviction. If I was on this jury, what I’d be suggesting is asking for the person (amongst the group whose in the majority vote) whose the best communicator, negotiator to take over in communicating with those jurors who are thinking of verdict (in the minority) to a different charge. You need a leader in times of deadlock, someone should take on the role, so that the group can take a few more steps closer to an unanimous decision.

    After certain event this arvo (which I wont expand on) , may i STRONGLY suggest, people be very careful what you write (copy) on here or other sites that could legally impact the judicial process and place yourself in trouble with the law. You would be foolish to do such a thing. Big Brother is watching apparently.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Well in Gerry, I’ve been a little concerned myself, though I trust the Judge has been stern enough with the jury to tolerate no nonsense. In saying that, we do need to consider the risks.

        I’m heading in tomorrow Gerry, I’ll be the boho looking one with my crocheting…..so don’t pay me out MM :p I’m crocheting a blanky for my grandson, due in October 🙂

        Be taking lotsa positive energy with – for a guilty verdict.

        Like

  50. I’m guessing you all noticed this?

    One juror lingered in the courtroom re-reading Justice Byrne’s summation which was displayed on a large screen, as the other jurors rose from their seats to return to the deliberation room.

    Like

    1. Robbo, could you pls explain for everyone’s benefit what gerryrocks means by “people be very careful what you write (copy) on here or other sites that could legally impact the judicial process and place yourself in trouble with the law. You would be foolish to do such a thing. Big Brother is watching apparently.”

      I’m not sure how our debate can impact the process if jurors are not allowed to participate in blogs…??? Will be good if you can clarify.

      edit by robbo see this reply

      Liked by 1 person

      1. OK Guys think of it like this.
        Own what you write, just give your own opinions and all is fine. WE are allowed to share our own opinions whether you think a monkey Gerard or a car killed Allison, write what you believe.

        Other sites, blogs, support sites, people, twitter nutters etc whatever, could have other reasons for posting crap, rumours etc. I cant be responsible for their content. So leave it there, and leave a link, people can leave here and go see for themselves.WE don’t need it here.

        Nobody here has anything to worry about, just think about what I have said. If I see stuff I don’t think belongs here I will delete it, that’s as simple as it can be.

        Just don’t paste what you heard elsewhere of another site and bring stuff here. Email me with stuff if you are concerned, no problems.

        All good all calm, we are pretty good here, I am so looking forward to tomorrow

        Robbo

        Liked by 1 person

  51. Berry rocks id be interested to know what’s been discussed on here that could get someone in trouble. Can you elaborate?

    edit by robbo see this reply

    Like

  52. It is not necessary for the facts to be proved by direct evidence. They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone…

    …circumstantial evidence are (is) acceptable proof of facts.

    Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty, based entirely or substantially on circumstantial evidence…

    …guilt should not only be a rational inference, it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances.

    In summary: The scratches, the foliage, the blood in the car, the phone plugged in to charge – that should be enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt. In addition to this, the potential life insurance claim, the pressure from his mistress and the fact that his wife and mistress were to come face to face the very next morning.

    I can’t see how there could possibly be more circumstantial evidence that that!

    Like

  53. Just two random thoughts after hours of analysing.

    1. The blood stain in the car (and the strand of hair) – DNA confirmed as ABC’s. The defence’s angle with regard to this was that the age of the stain cannot be determined. As far as I can recall, there was no explanation as to an alternative occasion for how the blood stain came about. Does anyone remember anything else regarding this?
    2. The 6 species of foliage found in ABC’s hair. This is Mother Nature delivering justice!

    I bet GBC will be thinking: “The leaves! The leaves! Curse the foliage!” As he shakes his fist at the ceiling of cell.

    Like

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